steady aim

[bad benson 1733]

i just want to start a discussion about the new almost 100% steadiness of the gun in all stances when having the iron sights up.

to me this is way overdone and totally kills the illusion of being a person. it literally feels like moving on rails. now i hate to say it like this but arma 2 had it spot on. i absolutely love the smooth new animations and i don't want the old ones back but i think something good got lost in the process of evolution.

i think there's a middle ground to be found between the old and the new way. this can be brought back without choppy arma 2 1st person animations.

i'm specifically talking about moving in crouch position with the iron sights up. it's way too floaty at the moment. i'm not even primarily talking about impact on aiming accuracy but more about the looks of it. crouch looks like you are a little kid with a gun due to the lack of noticeable difference to the upright stance. i mean it surely might be possible to crouch walk with the gun steady like that but we are talking about people with gear on them that are on lengthy operations and you can walk like this endlessly ingame. it just doesn't feel right to me. this is bugging me most when moving side ways.

i think the whole dynamics of the arma 2 animations are spot on despite them looking very unpleasant and choppy. you can really see in which direction you are moving just by looking at the gun. having better versions of this for arma 3 would do a lot to make it look more convincing again.

as you can see the red dot is still pretty much on target so the gameplay impact wouldn't even be that big.

here are some comparison videos.

arma 3

for some reason i can't play that video. you can't either just check it out ingame :p

arma 2

note that in arma 2 you are only walking while in arma 3 you are jogging. so this has been decreased a lot.

what do you guys think?

[ak1287 1]

2 is overdone.

[bad benson 1733]

2 is overdone.

hm yea. it might be a little bit. but arma 3 is overdoing the steadiness for sure. a mix between both would look great.

[Chocolate 1]

Arma 2's sight movement has a very repetitive and obvious pattern, but the intent is clear. While it is true that the Arma 3 sight movement is extremely smooth. Can't be unreasonable to say that there needs to be more sight movement/sway in Arma3. (You try holding just about anything pointed in one direction while even walking at a smooth pace. Its not that simple to do.)

[afp 1]

Even if you feel that more sway is more natural (and it is), the feeling when you play is that the movement is more clunky. They tried to make the overall feeling of a smoother game. Personally I'm against "over realism" most of the shooters try to simplify the process of aiming and shooting in a compromise to realism. I'd say is good as it is, there is enough realism in Arma that do not affect the character movement smoothness. The bad part is that such animations cannot be turned on/off in settings, one solution could be to have some "arcade" mode with simplier animation but thats a bit too much.

[Deadfast 43]

It is fine as it is, it looks like you're having a seizure in Arma 2.

[xendance 3]

I think it's fine. The soldier is walking at tactical pace anyway when the weapon is raised.

[chortles 263]

They tried to make the overall feeling of a smoother game.

That's the sense I've been getting ever since the game came out and certain devs started responding to complaints about "unrealistic" behaviors, even in the context of the movement speed tweaks, and I believe it was Smookie who attributed the ability to maintain combat pace while aiming through the sights, to "recent design decisions", though he didn't say anything about potential sway amount tweaks.

Then again, my problem with Arma 2's on-the-move aiming-through-sights view was less amount of sway and how certain optics would literally bob in and out -- which is what you're seeing in the Arma 2 video, and some optics would have even more pronounced, jarring amounts of bobbing -- which I suppose is influencing Deadfast's remark?

[Sneakson 1]

ARMA3 is perfect... when aiming you SHOULD be accurate, that's the point duh.

If anything should change then it's the movement speed which could be made lower when aiming so accurately.

[chortles 263]

What you're seeing in the video is basically a walk speed by conventional FPS standards, and Arma 3 walk reduces both speed and sway even moreso.

[dmarkwick 261]

I would agree that the aim is acceptable as it is, I like it. But guys, bear in mind this is a crouched walk, not an upright walk. I guess there would be an increased aim sway, but if I'm honest I'm okay without it :)

[bad benson 1733]

guys please try to differentiate. i didn't say that i want it to be like in arma 2 but that especially the crouch walk looks too calm in my opinion. as you can see in the video there is zero difference to the upright position.

i totally agree that arma 2 overdid it and that it looked choppy and unpleasant. i think i mentioned that. i also never said that i think it should be harder to aim or anything. my beef is more with presentation than gameplay. it looks just very undynamic and static to me. and i mean mainly crouch walk to the sides. i think forward is totally fine.

while i made a point about gear please try not to make this into another realism thread. i'm totally not about aiming penalties or anything. i just find it to look very weird. but seems like i'm the only one ;)

[wipman 1]

Hi, the aim/sway on the ArmA3 looks good enough to me, we should see how it works with rapid consecutive single shots, burst and consecutive quick bursts and also full auto; we should see it on scoped views as with an ACOG or on a more magnified optic, for an Aimpoint or a Reflex like sight looks ok to me for this kind of game. Let's C ya

[Wolfstriked 11]

What bothers me is the movement of the reticule doesn't blend with the sound of the footsteps.It would feel better if each footstep causes a downward movement.Right now its just an animation that sways the weapon around and not really tied into what my brain thinks I should be seeing.But I do agree its pretty good right now and is suffice.

[metalcraze 290]

Crouchwalk needs increased sway.

[bad benson 1733]

What bothers me is the movement of the reticule doesn't blend with the sound of the footsteps.It would feel better if each footstep causes a downward movement.

yea i'm talking exactly about stuff like that.

that's what i meant about the dynamics being spot on in arma 2. i didn't mean the animation itself which was kinda horrible to be honest but the feeling that the movement comes from your body. i also like a lot how pistols indicate your movement in arma 3. i'd like more of that for rifles. just go ingame and compare rifle and pistol pistol animations with iron sights up. i like the pistol animations a lot more. the character really leans into the movement, which gives you more feedback of what you are doing and makes you feel more like you are really moving while the rifle just feels pinned down and floaty.

not everything about animations has to be about realism. or rather, realism doesn't have to mean that something has to be like that in real life. look at it more as like in art. like naturalism. it's not nature itself. it's about the illusion of it. sorry if i make no sense. ;)

so some of it could be achieved by animating the camera more which would totally keep the rifle on target but would give the movement more edge and feel to it.

again. it makes sense being upright but in crouch walk it needs work in my opinion.

[Wolfstriked 11]

The pistols do give alot of feedback with how they lean but the rifles lean a bit also,just very slightly.It could be immersified a bit.:confused:

[afp 1]

not everything about animations has to be about realism. or rather, realism doesn't have to mean that something has to be like that in real life. look at it more as like in art. like naturalism. it's not nature itself. it's about the illusion of it. sorry if i make no sense. ;)

It makes perfect sens to me. I said the same about the "head bob" movement. Of course, on the street you slightly move your head up and down but you dont feel like shaking it all the time. The backbone, the balance sensors in our ear do not make us feel like having Parkinson. If you try to simulate this in game only gives you the feeling of an unnatural motion causing nausea, even if it tries to reproduce some real thing.

[machineabuse 11]

I only wish the smoothness of your glide was dictated by the ground you're moving over ;)

It doesn't bother me so much but I too think that crouch movement should be more penalized.

[EDcase 87]

This is similar to a note I made in the tracker: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=2165

Apparently no one agreed with me