Alternative Midrange Detail Texture experiments

[NordKindchen 12]

I am really curious on how this works with my increased island textures.

Wanna give it a try with the wip data?

[gammadust 12]

indeed interesting approach

I am very pleased with it too, this attempt at deriving an acceptable compromise of paramaters out of the topography of the terrain and the vision center, while removing the jitter. With the ultimate objective of having all 3 levels of textures always contributing some information towards the final render (at least where our vision is mostly focused)...

I have to wonder if a much more stable* and direct texture level combination wouldn't be possible without any kind of dependence on fov and eye direction. Currently Satellite *multiplies* Mid Range, and apparently Mid Range is merely combined with Close Range via *transparency*, i imagine instead this latter combination be done via a multiply, this turn made with the luminance channel instead of the color one (which comes mainly from the satellite). This would assumingly contribute to break the patterning** of the close range while not getting rid of its detail (which is where most of it happens).

* in terms of the blend parameters

** most of the time coming from the luminance repetition (not the color or high frequency contrasts)

I am really curious on how this works with my increased island textures.

Wanna give it a try with the wip data?

I already did, i even identified the place of the patch you had focused on in the performance test pbo, but unfortunately the (v?)ram cap is hit and the resolution falls back down the next mip, defeating the purpose, i was never able to get a hold of it up to the moment i started recording. I am sure it would even get better, since the tinting blobs as per default would drop down to a quarter of its size.

I'll try to screen shot one or two while it lasts.

---

Another thing i noticed when trying this out in Altis instead was that current parameters are not as effective, since now it is the detail of the surface type (and the binary nature thereof as present in the terrain class map) which leads to random patches spread out over a base surface texture, both of which very detailed but with noticeable diferences in color... (i'll try and get some screen shots or just go to altis and try to look for what i mean)

Edited October 28, 2013 by gammadust

[NordKindchen 12]

I would be very interested in some screens=) these two combined could really make a difference!

[gammadust 12]

Really nice work! Is there anything that can be done regarding the midrange texture being overlayed onto the concrete aprons and runways? I notice the road texures seem to overwrite whatever is beneath them, so I'm wondering if its possible to cheat the engine by defining areas we don't want to apply the midrange texture as roads? I suspect that would have to be done within the binarized island file, wouldn't it?

Well i think technically it is possible, some stuff has been done to that effect, but even if automated (identifying limits of such places), would burden the engine significantly to be applied to whole map...

---

Comparison Gallery: (click for 9 sets of images)

* Note 1 - in some places, those extending further away from POV will have a repeating satellite image (ie. not corresponding with original satellite)

* Note 2 - Only dry grass is a custom texture (yellowish), the rest are vanilla

Edited October 28, 2013 by gammadust

[SaBrE_UK 0]

Awesome!

[NeuroFunker 11]

i wish, it would look like on C everywhere :(

[NoPOW 59]

I'm impressed by the efforts and advancements made here...

But is there any feedback from BIS on this issue? Hate to see all this work being in vain if BIS updates this themselves in the (near) future.

[NordKindchen 12]

Hate to see all this work being in vain if BIS updates this themselves in the (near) future.

God bless you for your belief.

They are working on Arma 3 - yes. But I seriously doubt we will see anything apart from fixing stuff and adding new models.

Maybe something like the new artillery module we got for Arma 2.

But taking into consideration that things marked as "assigned" on the feedback tracker 6 month ago are not improved at all till now tells me theres not much hope.

I was once a believer like you. But time has changed my belief. Now its up to the community.

However if I will get proven wrong I will be very glad and overthink my attitude. Till then I stay critic.

Example: Number 6 of feedbacktracker wishes. Assigned. Posted 6 month ago

Edited October 29, 2013 by NordKindchen

[NoPOW 59]

That's just sad...

EDIT: I was wondering, is there a way to generate the ground textures procedurally to get rid of that ugly stamping appearance?

Edited October 29, 2013 by NoPOW

[gammadust 12]

I have to wonder if a much more stable* and direct texture level combination wouldn't be possible without any kind of dependence on fov and eye direction. (...)

... Removing the need for the Dynamic Texturing script altogether, this being via facilities engine should have available right now:

I insisted on this idea and i'll attempt at driving the point home more. Hopefully Dwarden is still keeping his eyes on this, there might be some feasible avenue for tackling our pet texture issues with no huge engine implementation requirements.

Gallery with variations of a scene showing texturing | Full Detail / "half" Detail / noDetail | for assumed current blending modes, suggested blending modes, and it's ultimate aim by using the suggestions. Images are fully aligned for easy comparison.

Basically i am suggesting 2 things:

1. Adjust the blending transition to maintain it's 50%* level for a longer distance (might be relatively easy to implement) *or another percentage value where visual effect is more useful
   
2. Adjust blending to increase constrast when Surface texture and Detail Map are mixed
   

Overal saturation and luminosity emerges as an issue in extreme cases (probably due to my lack of representing in-game post-processing or missing the actual blend values), but that should not be an issue i believe. In any case i shall make a ticket out of this study.

Edit: Can't login to tracker, i'll create the ticket when able.

Edited October 31, 2013 by gammadust

[fred41 42]

...wow, that looks and sounds really promising.

Thanks gammadust, for your awesome work in investigating and explaining this very interesting aproach.

I really can't wait to see this implemented in RV4 as default ground texturing,

Fred41

[gammadust 12]

Just created the ticket. Please vote for this to bring attention to the devs.

0015758: Extend area where Detail Map+Surface Textures Blend together (at a specific level of best effect - 50%?)

[VanZant 48]

These are my settings for Stratis and Altis

Online image gallery

RAR download

I also think that everything related is a dead end.

[NeuroFunker 11]

omg yesss yes! Finally more contrast and detailed textures at distance! Kinda always bothered me that bright ground at distance, quite ugly, and washed out texture. I hope BIS includes this to next DEV branch.

voted

Just run up your example mission from feedback tracker, noticed a bug. If i'm looking straight forward - all fine.

http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/919026388653184346/2D64817BAB79835A3CD2038836A1B42ECCDF7FD8/

If i'm looking down to the ground, it looks like stalker aztec alpha from 2002

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/919026388653182534/536614DC9FC917EDE54D39E21DE434DBAF28D241/

version 1.04 stable build from today.

Edited November 1, 2013 by NeuroFunker

[gammadust 12]

These are my settings for Stratis and Altis

Online image gallery

RAR download

Great texture VanZant, have you published that pbo somewhere? Or you're still working it? Whish i could try it, it looks pretty good!

Just run up your example mission from feedback tracker, noticed a bug. If i'm looking straight forward - all fine.

If i'm looking down to the ground, it looks like stalker aztec alpha from 2002

Yes... i did account for a minimum transition distance at the upper end, but negleted one for the closer range. Bug corrected, script updated (download). Also updated the ticket and the OP.

I also don't know how i missed sharing the links for the textures i used in the video, here they are:

• Mid Range download (version *_a2 used in video - check zip for variations)
  
• Close Range download (dry grass for Stratis and Altis)*
  To install them, you must unpack original map_data.pbo to a folder, extract these textures from zip and overwrite the original ones, finally repack it all up again and put it in one mod folder.
  *Unfortunately, i'm unable to easily share thess texture as a mod which implies uploading the full set of surface textures (+200Mb)
  

Edited November 1, 2013 by gammadust

[NeuroFunker 11]

seems like we are geting closer, to improved midrange textures solution. I do REALLY hope, BIS noticing this, and include as soonest as possible!

[gammadust 12]

Guys, just to bring your attention to the ticket made in previous page. This could really get us something. Please vote for it!!

0015758: Extend area where Detail Map+Surface Textures Blend together (at a specific level of best effect - 50%?)

TL;DR vote for it in any case, it is good! :now:

[doveman 7]

Dynamic Texturing Script

Description:

- Dynamicaly updates the transition between Mid and Close range textures on the fly

(dependent on Field of View)

Download:

GAM_DynamicTexturing

Full effect depends on the following

Textures:

• Mid Range download (version *_a2 used in video - check zip for variations)
  
• Close Range download (dry grass for Stratis and Altis)*
  To install them, you must unpack original map_data.pbo to a folder, extract these textures from zip and overwrite the original ones, finally repack it all up again and put it in one mod folder.
  *Unfortunately, i'm unable to easily share thess texture as a mod which implies uploading the full set of surface textures (+200Mb)
  

Excuse my ignorance but is there any way for us to use this as a mod or can this only be used by mission-makers adding the script to their missions?

[gammadust 12]

For now only the latter, but i do have a mod version in the works, i'm keeping it on hold since the best effect can only be achieved along some new textures which i intend to release in paralel (there is some very noticeable patterning if using default ones). But i may reconsider having it sit there... In the meanwhile using as a mission is not that complicated:

Create your mission > Copy "gam_dynamictexturing.sqf" to this new mission folder > Copy the following code:

GAM_DynamicTexturing = compile preProcessFileLineNumbers 'gam_dynamictexturing.sqf';
_nil = [true, 4, false, 1] spawn GAM_DynamicTexturing;

...to your mission's init.sqf. (alternatively to this las step if you don't have any init.sqf is just copying the file itself)

[kremator 1065]

+1 for mod version :)

[jumpinghubert 49]

These are my settings for Stratis and Altis

Online image gallery

RAR download

I also think that everything related is a dead end.

I combined vanzants textures and bensons mod with a very good result on stratis http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/723121151221559344/0B6DE0BB19440BEBB288525C48A0E7B00A546985/

[NordKindchen 12]

I would be interested to know how you did that?

Apart from that Vanzant didnt upload his pbo anywhere I could see, Bad Bensons and Vanzants mod are altering the same texture and therefore cannot be run at the same time.

I am very curious what you did there=)

Greetz

[gammadust 12]

Apart from that Vanzant didnt upload his pbo anywhere I could see, Bad Bensons and Vanzants mod are altering the same texture and therefore cannot be run at the same time.

I was curious too, VanZant apparently uploaded it here, but all links appear long dead. The gallery vanzant linked and the above by jumpinghubert do appear to show the same detail texture, hinting at only vanzant's being in effect. Vanzant's does look good for non urban environments.

In other news, the mod version shall not wait for the textures, expect it soon.

[jumpinghubert 49]

I asked him per pm: http://www.multiupload.nl/YEWJ8OU4KT

@vanzant

I hope its ok

the stratis.pbo gave me this nice stone rubber stucture, sadly not the one for altis.

[dnk 13]

Now if only COOP servers would let people play with these mods, we'd be set :)