Terrain Improvement (dev branch)

[St. Jimmy 272]

If only AI could use them efficiently.

Sometimes I hope that the game wouldn't have AI at all and everything is pure PvP :D

[Bouben 3]

Sometimes I hope that the game wouldn't have AI at all and everything is pure PvP :D

I can't identify with that. Sorry :-)

[chrisb 196]

Sometimes I hope that the game wouldn't have AI at all and everything is pure PvP :D

That's only because you play with poor ai, unfortunately..

Wait for a while, it will get better, via mod/addons that is..;)

A2 was near perfect with the right type of ai, all mod's made by players, here and elsewhere.

[St. Jimmy 272]

That's only because you play with poor ai, unfortunately..

Wait for a while, it will get better, via mod/addons that is..;)

A2 was near perfect with the right type of ai, all mod's made by players, here and elsewhere.

I meant that if BIS doesn't need to take AI into account then we might have all kinds of terrain and buildings in the base game ;)

[maturin 12]

...and nothing to do on them...

[Bouben 3]

That's only because you play with poor ai, unfortunately..

Wait for a while, it will get better, via mod/addons that is..;)

A2 was near perfect with the right type of ai, all mod's made by players, here and elsewhere.

"Near perfect" are very strong words. I saw a lot of your AI testing videos and while there are really impressive stuff happening from time to time there is a lot of stupid stuff that AI do too.

[-Coulum- 35]

...and nothing to do on them...

Yes indeed. I seriously doubt that arma would be still around if it weren't for ai and editor. Alot of people love this game so much not because of the realism or the scale or even the gameplay but rather just because its one of the few games where you can plop down a bunch of units give a couple waypoints hit the preview button and get a varying experience everytime. I came for the realism myself, but I would buy arma just for that ability as well.

If arma were only pvp I would have fun but I would probably have only 15% the hours on it (the other 85% being divided up as 40% coop, 10% sp missions and campaigns and 35% just playing and testing in the editor.)

Edited November 23, 2013 by -Coulum-

[chrisb 196]

"Near perfect" are very strong words. I saw a lot of your AI testing videos and while there are really impressive stuff happening from time to time there is a lot of stupid stuff that AI do too.

I agree, 'near perfect' are strong words and perhaps to those that don't use ai often or play against them on a regular basis, then perhaps it seems odd to say it. But I/we as a group used to play against ai most of the time, and on very few occasions was I that disappointed with the behaviour, don't forget a game against them is not like watching them as in a test, which highlights the good and the bad, in game you get to see them in the immersive world of arma, then you have to forgive certain things or you'll simply not enjoy the game.

Same here with terrain, there are faults, lots if you look really carefully, but in a well put together very immersive mission, I don't care regards the faults, I'm here to make of the game what I can and enjoy it, and the faults usually don't occur to me that much, considering I have been war gaming decades, most of that was on a board and odd pc crossover versions, compared to them, this is highly immersive and yes indeed, very near perfect.

They can do silly things the ai, but on the whole they will make the right decisions regards tactics and the rest, provided you use a good ai setup (unfortunately has to be a mod setup).

Show me perfection in pvp games, doesn't exist, but to the players playing, it does.;)

Put it this way, the ai we had (smart mix), won an awful lot, thanks to the great players/makers who made those ai mods..:)

[kremator 1065]

Why are we discussing AI in a terrain thread ? Use the correct one gentlemen !

[antoineflemming 14]

Why are we discussing AI in a terrain thread ? Use the correct one gentlemen !

Because the AI will have to navigate the terrain, and so either the terrain needs to be tailored to the AI or the AI need to be tailored to the terrain.

[Bouben 3]

I agree, 'near perfect' are strong words and perhaps to those that don't use ai often or play against them on a regular basis, then perhaps it seems odd to say it. But I/we as a group used to play against ai most of the time, and on very few occasions was I that disappointed with the behaviour, don't forget a game against them is not like watching them as in a test, which highlights the good and the bad, in game you get to see them in the immersive world of arma, then you have to forgive certain things or you'll simply not enjoy the game.

Same here with terrain, there are faults, lots if you look really carefully, but in a well put together very immersive mission, I don't care regards the faults, I'm here to make of the game what I can and enjoy it, and the faults usually don't occur to me that much, considering I have been war gaming decades, most of that was on a board and odd pc crossover versions, compared to them, this is highly immersive and yes indeed, very near perfect.

They can do silly things the ai, but on the whole they will make the right decisions regards tactics and the rest, provided you use a good ai setup (unfortunately has to be a mod setup).

Show me perfection in pvp games, doesn't exist, but to the players playing, it does.;)

Put it this way, the ai we had (smart mix), won an awful lot, thanks to the great players/makers who made those ai mods..:)

Man, I constantly play with/test AI (I am a single-player-only gamer) and what I see in your videos is sometimes impressive and definitely better in some ways than vanilla, but it is nowhere near "near perfect". There is so much to be improved yet. Anyway, let's move along.

[dnk 13]

Back on to terrain...

Why is there always such short groundclutter? In the real world, most natural non-arid habitats have groundclutter well past waist height. A low crouch will make you basically invisible, certainly a prone will make you totally so. Even if only 15% of the groundclutter is X height, after 100m anything under X height is totally concealed. It bugs me to no end how I always feel like I'm running through weed patches instead of actual grasslands, etc.

Also... New technique for rendering grass at far distance

It saddens me that after so many retoolings of the game/engine/AI/terrain/etc/etc, this very basic and cringe-worthy terrain masking approach to unit concealment is all we have still.

It pains me to no end that a game in 1998 had better grass than Arma 3.

[iratus 71]

Why is there always such short groundclutter?

Probably because some people complained about the many places on Chernarus that feature relatively high grass (i.e. you cannot see much when prone).

[dnk 13]

You can't see much when prone anywhere except a recently mowed yard.

[NordKindchen 12]

sry didnt fit.

[Bouben 3]

You can't see much when prone anywhere except a recently mowed yard.

Well I think shortening the grass is a bad solution. It would be much better if player and AI would be able to peak from the grass as in real (I don't mean the sitting stance we have now but I use it a lot nevertheless - however there should be a possibility to peak quickly - just in prone but supported by your hands, your head moving up).

In short, stance adjustments for player and AI is the solution. Shortening the grass is a really bad compromise affecting the gameplay too much.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Bouben

[xendance 3]

I wonder when Bohemia is going to fix the floaty parallax effect on the terrain when using high or above terrain settings.

[Bouben 3]

I wonder when Bohemia is going to fix the floaty parallax effect on the terrain when using high or above terrain settings.

You mean when units in the distance are "levitating" above the ground?

[jgbtl292 0]

Probably because some people complained about the many places on Chernarus that feature relatively high grass (i.e. you cannot see much when prone).

yes - and its no argument more with the new stances ;)

[lexx 1363]

If I remember correct, the problem was that you could be spotted from miles away without being able to see the enemy due to the high grass. So it was actually a bad idea to walk into a high grass area, while the enemy was in low grass area.

[Bouben 3]

If I remember correct, the problem was that you could be spotted from miles away without being able to see the enemy due to the high grass. So it was actually a bad idea to walk into a high grass area, while the enemy was in low grass area.

Already fixed in a limited way. Grass now conceal you if you are on a terrain type that supports it. If you are on a road, grass in front of you would not conceal you even if it is, theoretically, 3 meters high and is blocking LOS of the enemy...

The only known problem now is that AI would not be able to adjust their stance accordingly when in tall grass. If this problem is solved and AI is able to peak from concealment, then there is nothing in the way of making grass tall again. It would be fantastic (Thin Red Line tall grass combat).

[xendance 3]

You mean when units in the distance are "levitating" above the ground?

No, the parallax effect on the close-by terrain. The displacement effect isn't working correctly at the moment.

http://youtu.be/K40Im-rhGdQ

See how stuff just gets hidden underneath the rocks when I move in the video. It obviously shouldn't happen, unless the rocks are floating ;)

[fabio_chavez 103]

yeah its somewhat a immersion killer, everything is floating...

[dnk 13]

I think that effect comes from the highest/closest level of detail for terrain, which is rendered as "lower" than the base terrain height save for the "highest" features (like the little rocks) - it's a negative-only rendering adjustment, so the ground usually looks a few centimeters lower than its mesh is.

If I remember correct, the problem was that you could be spotted from miles away without being able to see the enemy due to the high grass. So it was actually a bad idea to walk into a high grass area, while the enemy was in low grass area.

Well, I would also like this long-distance masking effect to be far more pronounced as well - higher grass, and units in prone are basically invisible almost everywhere and crouched units are almost invisible in many natural places as well. Instead of it being like 1-2 feet high, have it be 3-4 feet, which is far more realistic.

[MavericK96 0]

I wonder when Bohemia is going to fix the floaty parallax effect on the terrain when using high or above terrain settings.

Never was fixed in ArmA 2 so I wouldn't hold out much hope of it being fixed in A3. I think it's an engine limitation or something.