Map limits for A3?

[ZeroG 23]

That is a nice idea but I doubt that too many persons will be able to run an island that complex. Just go to Armaholic and count the MB used for each of those maps taken for themselves together...you will easily create a file that is several GB big , containing 5+ million objects (Cherna alone has about 1.5 million)...and there we are at the basic problem again: an island that lots of people can't run on their machine and that even a strong server can't sustain for 8+ hours....

[=kct=blackmamba 44]

I managed to get a terrain size of 40960x40960 with a satellite texture size of 81920x81920 into visitor :) trying to build a nice warm island of Ibiza. still have to figure out the road shape files and proper tools to get rid of the error 58 message in log file.

[Harzach 2517]

I managed to get a terrain size of 40960x40960 with a satellite texture size of 81920x81920 into visitor :) trying to build a nice warm island of Ibiza. still have to figure out the road shape files and proper tools to get rid of the error 58 message in log file.

As the author of my favorite A2 island, I look forward to seeing what you come up with for A3!

(don't forget the nightclubs)

[xyberviri 1]

The maps dont have any limits, the personal edition of visitor does, the professional version of Visitor that comes with VBS supports scientific notation, we were able to import whole continents into it. scroll out and it says something like 1.4x10^11 not that you could ever play that in game cause your pc would just die

The community should really demand access to the VBS tool suite(and really i mean just visitor), you can get a person copy for 580.00 USD but that is just really an academic version, there should be a non profit version of that exact same tool for say 99.00 imho.

Too bad BI has said they will never un-bundle visitor from the vbs suite, What takes a person with experience in the personal version of visitor a month can be accomplished in a hour with the professional(academic) version of visitor for some one with almost no training.

All of those geo dem sites that have land maps of the world with shape files for their roads and cities are directly importable into vistor, granted you need to tweak them but the fact remains that it just works.

VBS version of visitor is Photoshop CS6

Personal edition is Paint from windows 95

[m1lkm8n 411]

...scroll out and it says something like 1.4x10^11 not that you could ever play that in game cause your pc would just die

Lol it surely would.

It would be extremely nice if they added some more tools to the new visitor pe edition. Specifically their gonna need some sort of shape file support. While you can go from quantum gis or global mapper directly in if you need small road tweaks would be a pain without.

But still the fact remains vbs mainly is for military use. Up until what was it? Last week it didn't even have buldozer support correct?

But the ability to select an area and randomly populate it with trees and such is pretty sweet. Although the community has released some sweet tools that can take care of the same things (world tools is one). Might take an extra step but it'll save you 500 bucks.

But I guess my main point is why would they give a program away for free when they can make $500

Edited May 31, 2013 by M1lkm8n

[FallujahMedic -FM- 867]

Hmm, just took your suggestion Xyberviri and had a look at this: https://store.bisimulations.com/products/vbs2-academic-seat-license

My question is how do we get around this: "The Academic version of VBS2 is limited to non-commercial or contractual work. Only acredited universities can qualify for this discount."??

[[aps]gnat 28]

??

This was VBS2 PE version, which I got.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?140897-11-years-since-OFP-VBS2-PE-licenses-discounted!

Ring/email them to find out where PE version is at.

..... can't confirm that it has Tool Suite is eleased yet but.

Maybe ask in the VBS thread

[fabio_chavez 103]

I think its intressting to know about engine limits, both theoretical and practical (what will the average pc in 2 years be able to handle?)

it doenst make sense to limit what you think, is realisable if you dont know for sure the technical limits.

2 years from now the game is likely to be popular... therefore it would be perfectly reasonable for a big team of capable mappers to create the biggest baddest map known in the history of videogames! If someone is considering to take such aproach, i would encourage him to do so... :-p

anyway since simulations are geting bigger and more complex, earlyer or later, auotmated processes will have to further expand the limits of content of high artistic quality...

[m1lkm8n 411]

On thing to note is photoshops limit of 40960 pixel images. If you made a terrain lets say 4096x4096x10 meters cells with a sat map at 40960 pixels and 1 pixel per meter you'd end up with a a1 style map.

Not to mention how many people would it take to fill something that big.

Not that it wouldn't be awesome, it's just impractical

[fabio_chavez 103]

conderning dayZ. 700x700km wouldnt even be too much...

and dont mind "impracticalness", the gameplay will addapt to larger areas once the technology makes them available... the only limit is going to be the human part... how many people can you get to propperly interact... can you have teamplay in 1000 vs 1000 pvp milsim?

besides that, giant maps are going to be the future of MMOs, you are going to tell mapeditors "randomly spread 5 gothic cathedrals on the map" and the allgorhythms are going to generate perfectly reasonable and unique cathedrals, one unlike the other, placing them in perfectly reasonable places. Because the software knows what gothic cathedrals are supposed to look like, the software can combine a finite set of objects into infinite combinations. We are about to reach the limits of what can practically AND ECONOMICALLY created by gameartists...

at some point in the future computers are going to be able to make every rock and every bush look awesome in an unseen photorealism and developers simply are not going to have the manpower to model 300 hours on a set of decent appletrees...

[m1lkm8n 411]

conderning dayZ. 700x700km wouldnt even be too much...

and dont mind "impracticalness", the gameplay will addapt to larger areas once the technology makes them available... the only limit is going to be the human part... how many people can you get to propperly interact... can you have teamplay in 1000 vs 1000 pvp milsim?

besides that, giant maps are going to be the future of MMOs, you are going to tell mapeditors "randomly spread 5 gothic cathedrals on the map" and the allgorhythms are going to generate perfectly reasonable and unique cathedrals, one unlike the other, placing them in perfectly reasonable places. Because the software knows what gothic cathedrals are supposed to look like, the software can combine a finite set of objects into infinite combinations. We are about to reach the limits of what can practically AND ECONOMICALLY created by gameartists...

at some point in the future computers are going to be able to make every rock and every bush look awesome in an unseen photorealism and developers simply are not going to have the manpower to model 300 hours on a set of decent appletrees...

Um what.

You realize dayz is based in chernarus which is like 20kmx20km

[Harzach 2517]

Um what.

You realize dayz is based in chernarus which is like 20kmx20km

Yup, and that's too small, really. DayZ would greatly benefit from super-sized islands. Heck, Arma in general would benefit - just because a map is large doesn't mean it has to be "filled" with players. A large map offers all sorts of possibilities to all different types of gameplay.

[m1lkm8n 411]

Yup, and that's too small, really. DayZ would greatly benefit from super-sized islands. Heck, Arma in general would benefit - just because a map is large doesn't mean it has to be "filled" with players. A large map offers all sorts of possibilities to all different types of gameplay.

I don't understand how you think that's small. Running north it'll take you like 40minutes or so to get across the map.

I agree with you larger maps would be cool. But a 700kmx700km that I think it just insane. Talking just strictly modders with a few guys teaming up it would take years to finish off something like that if they even could. I'm sure everyone would want detail on the map and not just running through endless forests.

[Harzach 2517]

Well, even in the first days of DayZ, those of us who knew Chernarus felt a little cramped. Even with a max of 40-50 players, you would invariably run into someone. While that interaction is essential, part of the initial charm of DayZ was the feeling of solitude and disorientation in a world gone mad, the desperate search for other survivors and the overriding fear of bandits. Oversized terrains would be one way to regain that charm, with more space for players to stretch out, set up camp, etc. It would also make the discovery of other players that much more exciting.

Yes, 700x700 is a bit extreme - I think Fabio was opining on the possibilities the future might hold, where so much of that tedious work of placing objects and creating locations might be handled by the computer instead. Anyway, something on the order of 50x50 would likely be the largest we could reasonably expect right now, given a large and industrious team building it. And that's pretty darned big - 2500 square kilometers vs the ~210 square kilometers of Chernarus (which is really about 14x15, not 20x20).

But by all means, quality first.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Harzach

[fabio_chavez 103]

yes offcourse Harzach is right, i was fantasising about what future might hold for us and how it is futile to try grasp the limits of how that might look...

also quality first is the premise, i prefer small "handmade" individualized maps over large copy paste maps any time.

when it comes to chernarus, it is a legendary map by all means, i enjoyed it first in project reality, when i perceived its size as incomprehandable at first but after a few weeks of dayZ it was crystal clear that the map could as well have been 4-5 times as big without any negative effect on the gameplay.

[FallujahMedic -FM- 867]

On thing to note is photoshops limit of 40960 pixel images. If you made a terrain lets say 4096x4096x10 meters cells with a sat map at 40960 pixels and 1 pixel per meter you'd end up with a a1 style map.

Not to mention how many people would it take to fill something that big.

Not that it wouldn't be awesome, it's just impractical

I'm going to show the limit of my knowledge on this subject (which is very limited), but would it be possible to "stitch together" 4 Chernarus type terrains together to form a larger terrain of the same quality? Seeing the limit of PS, could that obstacle be overcome not by making one huge terrain, but by making multiple interconnecting terrains that are created individually and stitched together later (modularly)?

[m1lkm8n 411]

I'm going to show the limit of my knowledge on this subject (which is very limited), but would it be possible to "stitch together" 4 Chernarus type terrains together to form a larger terrain of the same quality? Seeing the limit of PS, could that obstacle be overcome not by making one huge terrain, but by making multiple interconnecting terrains that are created individually and stitched together later (modularly)?

I'm not 100% on that but I'm sure it's probably possible although the resulting file would be gigantic.

[FallujahMedic -FM- 867]

Yeah, I'm sure. I was just hoping that this way might overcome the "size to resolution" limit. Basically just modular land masses that line up evenly at the edges. So, shall we call that "theoretically possible"?

[Harzach 2517]

The more I think about it, the more I'd love to see an enormous wilderness terrain - interesting topography with a very simple road network, but little to no built-up areas, short of token airfields for at least two sides and maybe a few points of interest. I recall that someone (DaringD?) is working on a 40x40 terrain like this.

[m1lkm8n 411]

@stang

I think if I remember correctly there's a thread somewhere recently where that person was able to just that.

@harzach

I think his terrain is 15kmx15kn. Like I said earlier it just about impossible for one single person to make a terrain that big unless that's what you want. Just a terrain with not much on it.

[Harzach 2517]

@harzach

I think his terrain is 15kmx15kn. Like I said earlier it just about impossible for one single person to make a terrain that big unless that's what you want. Just a terrain with not much on it.

Oops, I was thinking of JR_Walker's Haadur.

[m1lkm8n 411]

Oops, I was thinking of JR_Walker's Haadur.

Ah ha! That's him. He had a thread on how to make larger that 40960 sat masks somewhere on here

[Harzach 2517]

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?151405-40K-sat_lco-SOLVED

[p1nga 23]

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?151405-40K-sat_lco-SOLVED

I'm working on a 10x10 terrain at the moment that is based on central Australia, so it is just as above, large open areas with main features, sparse population with dense clusters, sporadic dense vegetation, red desert etc. The 10x10 is sort of a proof of concept before a 100x100 terrain is started, so getting the ground and road textures, sky, sat mask, new buildings, ambient animals, dust storms and others all working and looking good on the 10x10 before we even start on 100x100 so its just like a copy and past job for most of it, not having to start from scratch.

I downloaded the 1000x1000 heightmap using global mapper just to understand how big these files were going to be when it came to it, 3.91GB saved as a .XYZ just for giggles i tried to import it into L3DT and after 10minutes and nothing, i just gave up, and decided to try Visitor3 which was not much better.....fun times ahead

[m1lkm8n 411]

I'm working on a 10x10 terrain at the moment that is based on central Australia, so it is just as above, large open areas with main features, sparse population with dense clusters, sporadic dense vegetation, red desert etc. The 10x10 is sort of a proof of concept before a 100x100 terrain is started, so getting the ground and road textures, sky, sat mask, new buildings, ambient animals, dust storms and others all working and looking good on the 10x10 before we even start on 100x100 so its just like a copy and past job for most of it, not having to start from scratch.

I downloaded the 1000x1000 heightmap using global mapper just to understand how big these files were going to be when it came to it, 3.91GB saved as a .XYZ just for giggles i tried to import it into L3DT and after 10minutes and nothing, i just gave up, and decided to try Visitor3 which was not much better.....fun times ahead

I don't think your downloading the 1000x1000 square you may think you are. I downloaded the heightmap of grand manan at 4096x4096 with a 5 meter grid cell and its only 580mb

zerog has a great tutorial on global mapper

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?109978-ZGM-Mapmaking-Tutorial&highlight=zgm