ARMA III & Steam WORKSHOP

[STALKERGB 6]

Sure if you made a model and textured it 100% yourself, you could have turned around and sold it to some company. But then, releasing it simultaneously as a mod for free wouldn't bode too well would it?

Well, doing that isn't exactly selling a model, then giving it away for free, it would be part of an addon, designed for a particular game, packaged in a format for only that game. The only way someone could get the model from the addon is if they illegally rip it.

Were you going to sell your Arma 3 missions? Oh wait, you can't because they never belonged to you in the first place.

Losing your IP rights (or whatever it is Steam asks you to give up), would mean you to an extent lose ownership of whatever you make, which is a pretty big deal.

[jefferspang 2]

Just because I can't sell them doesn't mean someone else should be able to. And just because I can't sell them doesn't mean I don't own them.

Did you actually *read* the license agreement? Perhaps you should do that first.

Don't bother trying to reason with him Alwarren, the pattern on this thread is too repetitive - regular players complaining that content creators such as yourself who spent 100s of hours of your spare time making contents aren't willing to give up your IP rights so they can have more streamline experience.

[daze23 1]

Don't bother trying to reason with him Alwarren, the pattern on this thread is too repetitive - regular players complaining that content creators such as yourself who spent 100s of hours of your spare time making contents aren't willing to give up your IP rights so they can have more streamline experience.

an interesting perspective

apparently steam workshop is happening, so I don't think the "regular players" are the ones "complaining"

[jefferspang 2]

an interesting perspective

apparently steam workshop is happening, so I don't think the "regular players" are the ones "complaining"

Ok I'm sorry for my desire to retain my IP is getting in the way of your fun. :rolleyes:

[astast 12]

an interesting perspective

apparently steam workshop is happening, so I don't think the "regular players" are the ones "complaining"

Bro the "Regular players" is complaining! i know i am at least if that means that quality addons won't be released then i am complaining. but then again if people can do with reskins only then sure don't complain

[Sealife 22]

Ok I'm sorry for my desire to retain my IP is getting in the way of your fun. :rolleyes:

If you see something wrong with your IP , all Rights you surrender when submitting to steamworks are withdrawn at the moment you take your addon down , if another subscriber uploads a derivative or exact copy they break Steams EULA so again your IP ok ,

I see the reason why people are wary but to be honest I believe the IP is more about Media created using 3rd party content to promote sales and modification wouldn't ever see Steam altering models in O2 .

Again tho I support anyone's right to decide what happens to there own work , I don't believe however Steamworks will see more attempted ripoffs than we already see in these forums or Armaholic

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

Look it is a very simple concept. If you're so mad at Valve's EULA, well then simply don't post your mods there. Continue posting them elsewhere as has been done all these years. But either way Steamworks integration is happening, like it or not. And I'm certain that people WILL upload mods and missions to it, which will see a diversion in traffic from the other sites so it won't even matter where you post your content.

And to the people calling me just some consumer, watch your tongue. I may not be some major player recognized in the Arma modding community but I have contributed my fair share of content to the internet, content I made. How far back does it go? This far back: http://www.fileplanet.com/127199/120000/fileinfo/Unreal-Tournament-2003---DM-Q3DM17

Most of my work since has been private and not posted for people to use, but don't say I don't understand the concepts of working hard on content to give it away for free, nor give up my IP rights. I'm just not someone who dresses up in tin-foil.

[ak1287 1]

Look it is a very simple concept. If you're so mad at Valve's EULA, well then simply don't post your mods there. Continue posting them elsewhere as has been done all these years. But either way Steamworks integration is happening, like it or not. And I'm certain that people WILL upload mods and missions to it, which will see a diversion in traffic from the other sites so it won't even matter where you post your content.

And to the people calling me just some consumer, watch your tongue. I may not be some major player recognized in the Arma modding community but I have contributed my fair share of content to the internet, content I made. How far back does it go? This far back: http://www.fileplanet.com/127199/120000/fileinfo/Unreal-Tournament-2003---DM-Q3DM17

Most of my work since has been private and not posted for people to use, but don't say I don't understand the concepts of working hard on content to give it away for free, nor give up my IP rights. I'm just not someone who dresses up in tin-foil.

Nah, you don't understand. Your contributions don't matter, since you disagree with them about the Steamworks EULA.

Differences of opinion don't matter; it is completely ludicrous that people could use Armaholic AND Steamworks simultaneously. Implementation of Steamworks will bring in those filthy newbies, after all.

[daze23 1]

Ok I'm sorry for my desire to retain my IP is getting in the way of your fun. :rolleyes:

it's not getting in the way of my fun, because we are getting the workshop

[rksl-rock 1300]

If you see something wrong with your IP , all Rights you surrender when submitting to steamworks are withdrawn at the moment you take your addon down , if another subscriber uploads a derivative or exact copy they break Steams EULA so again your IP ok ,

I see the reason why people are wary but to be honest I believe the IP is more about Media created using 3rd party content to promote sales and modification wouldn't ever see Steam altering models in O2 .

Again tho I support anyone's right to decide what happens to there own work , I don't believe however Steamworks will see more attempted ripoffs than we already see in these forums or Armaholic

Sorry but that is wrong. Read the license again...

ou grant to Valve a worldwide, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, assignable right and license to (a) use, copy, distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, modify, and create derivative works from Your Contribution in any media, (b) identify You as the source of the Contribution, and © sublicense these rights, to the maximum extent permitted by applicable law.

---------- Post added at 21:03 ---------- Previous post was at 20:57 ----------

it's not getting in the way of my fun, because we are getting the workshop

I take it you don't like addons then? Because I doubt you'll see many genuinely new models on there.

[daze23 1]

I take it you don't like addons then? Because I doubt you'll see many genuinely new models on there.

I can still get them from other sources

[astast 12]

Sorry but that is wrong. Read the license again...

---------- Post added at 21:03 ---------- Previous post was at 20:57 ----------

I take it you don't like addons then? Because I doubt you'll see many genuinely new models on there.

Spot on Mr. RKSL-Rock

I can still get them from other sources

So you can get all the addons for arma 3 you want? nice, how?

Edited June 2, 2013 by astast

[rksl-rock 1300]

I can still get them from other sources

AH but will you still be able to? If you go back and actually read the thread properly you will see that not only myself but quite a few other model and addon makers are concerned about other people uploading our work to Steam without permission.

Now before you or others cry "Aha! But if someone does that they will be breaking the SWS License...etc yada...yadayaa".

Well Yes they would. But its me that has to prove that. But before that I also have to be aware that someone uploaded my content illegally. Then I have to engage Valve in debate and prove to them that its my IP they have and that I do not want my stuff on SWS. Something that is very hard to do. In other communites this is reportedly taking 3,4 or even 6 months + and often including costly legal exchanges. (Also see earlier posts). So to prevent this kind of crap... which is cost and time and a lot of heartache why should I release anything at all? I already know quite a few people in the addon making community asking this very question.

I'm not saying this is my current position but if I have to keep sending Solicitor's letters to Valve to get them to take down my content then I promise you I wont release another thing.

So your "other sources" may not have genuinely new addons or content either.

[ak1287 1]

Sorry but that is wrong. Read the license again...

---------- Post added at 21:03 ---------- Previous post was at 20:57 ----------

I take it you don't like addons then? Because I doubt you'll see many genuinely new models on there.

I think if you're quoting the general provisions for User Generated Content, you actually have to quote the provision specific to Steamworks. Since that actually supersedes the other.

[rksl-rock 1300]

I think if you're quoting the general provisions for User Generated Content, you actually have to quote the provision specific to Steamworks. Since that actually supersedes the other.

Please provide links to the licence that actually supercedes the SWS agreement from here - http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoplegalagreement

[Sealife 22]

Please provide links to the licence that actually supercedes the SWS agreement from here - http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoplegalagreement

I think your quoting software section ?

The third party clearly states when modifications can be made and how the rights for valve are withdrawn at that point ?

[rksl-rock 1300]

I think your quoting software section ?

The third party clearly states when modifications can be made and how the rights for valve are withdrawn at that point ?

Link please.

[daze23 1]

AH but will you still be able to? If you go back and actually read the thread properly you will see that not only myself but quite a few other model and addon makers are concerned about other people uploading our work to Steam without permission.

Now before you or others cry "Aha! But if someone does that they will be breaking the SWS License...etc yada...yadayaa".

Well Yes they would. But its me that has to prove that. But before that I also have to be aware that someone uploaded my content illegally. Then I have to engage Valve in debate and prove to them that its my IP they have and that I do not want my stuff on SWS. Something that is very hard to do. In other communites this is reportedly taking 3,4 or even 6 months + and often including costly legal exchanges. (Also see earlier posts). So to prevent this kind of crap... which is cost and time and a lot of heartache why should I release anything at all? I already know quite a few people in the addon making community asking this very question.

I'm not saying this is my current position but if I have to keep sending Solicitor's letters to Valve to get them to take down my content then I promise you I wont release another thing.

So your "other sources" may not have genuinely new addons or content either.

a lot of this thread is water under the bridge, since now it's been confirmed that this is happening

threats to not release anymore content are just that. you're free to do what you want

[Sealife 22]

It's i. Your own post , read third party section of the sws

May I remind you that you quoted my post and suggested I need to read again , if you look you will see it states when valve have no rights as I stated and when those rights are applicable .

My retorts here are not about how long it takes to get steam to take down illegally uploaded addons

[rksl-rock 1300]

a lot of this thread is water under the bridge, since now it's been confirmed that this is happening

threats to not release anymore content are just that. you're free to do what you want

I beg to differ. Right now all that has been confirmed is that it will be used for missions. They said they would like to expand that but "like" and "yes its going to happen" are quite far apart right now.

Yes "we" are all free to do what we want. But if certain people start abusing "our" good will then they also better start to learn how to make decent models and addons :P

---------- Post added at 21:44 ---------- Previous post was at 21:43 ----------

It's i. Your own post , read third party section of the sws

May I remind you that you quoted my post and suggested I need to read again , if you look you will see it states when valve have no rights as I stated and when those rights are applicable .

My retorts here are not about how long it takes to get steam to take down illegally uploaded addons

Ok please quote the section of that license that you think supercedes sections 2a and 2b

Edited June 2, 2013 by RKSL-Rock
typo x2

[daze23 1]

Right now all that has been confirmed is that it will be used for missions.

I agree. it's also already been pointed out that the storage limits might not accommodate larger addons

that's why I just see this as just being another option, that will only lead to more content

[max power 21]

a lot of this thread is water under the bridge, since now it's been confirmed that this is happening

threats to not release anymore content are just that. you're free to do what you want

If you are getting tired of the conversation, daze, then perhaps you should just go find better things to do with your time. What you are witnessing here is people trying to figure out what all of this means. If you are above all of this then feel free to pass over us benighted philistines so we do not rain on your glorious parade.

However, what you see as threats are people expressing their concerns, and are statements of intent that if things are the same for A3 as they are for other games using the workshop then the same problems are likely to pop up and the only way for addon makers to avoid it is to limit the way they release their stuff.

What I see in your statements is basically arguments against having this discussion, so I say again, if you don't like the discussion then kindly allow the rest of us to muddle through in peace.

[Sealife 22]

Apologies iPhone won't let me quote from within

http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

Unde user generated content , where you may in your sole discretion

[max power 21]

Here you go, Thromp.

B. Content Uploaded to the Steam Workshop

Some games or applications available on Steam ("Workshop-Enabled Apps") allow you to create User Generated Content based on or using the Workshop-Enabled App, and to submit that User Generated Content (a “Workshop Contributionâ€) to one or more Steam Workshop web pages. Workshop Contributions can be viewed by the Steam community, and for some categories of Workshop Contributions users may be able to interact with, download or purchase the Workshop Contribution. In some cases, Workshop Contributions may be considered for incorporation by Valve or a third-party developer into a game or into a Subscription Marketplace.

You understand and agree that Valve is not obligated to use, distribute, or continue to distribute copies of any Workshop Contribution and reserves the right, but not the obligation, to restrict or remove Workshop Contributions for any reason.

Specific Workshop-Enabled Apps or Workshop web pages may contain special terms (“App-Specific Termsâ€) that supplement or change the terms set out in this Section. In particular, where Workshop Contributions are distributed for a fee, App-Specific Terms will address how revenue may be shared. Unless otherwise specified in App-Specific Terms (if any), the following general rules apply to Workshop Contributions.

• Workshop Contributions are Subscriptions, and therefore you agree that any Subscriber receiving distribution of your Workshop Contribution will have the same rights to use your Workshop Contribution (and will be subject to the same restrictions) as are set out in this Agreement for any other Subscriptions.
  
• Notwithstanding the license described in Section 6.A., Valve will only have the right to modify or create derivative works from your Workshop Contribution in the following cases: (a) Valve may make modifications necessary to make your Contribution compatible with Steam and the Workshop functionality or user interface, and (b) Valve or the applicable developer may make modifications to Workshop Contributions that are accepted for in-Application distribution as it deems necessary or desirable to enhance gameplay.
  
• You may, in your sole discretion, choose to remove a Workshop Contribution from the applicable Workshop pages. If you do so, Valve will no longer have the right to use, distribute, transmit, communicate, publicly display or publicly perform the Workshop Contribution, except that (a) Valve may continue to exercise these rights for any Workshop Contribution that is accepted for distribution in-game or distributed in a manner that allows it to be used in-game, and (b) your removal will not affect the rights of any Subscriber who has already obtained access to a copy of the Workshop Contribution.
  

That is at least positive on the face of it :)

It is a bit confusing tho that they have two incompatible licenses for the same thing.

[daze23 1]

You may, in your sole discretion, choose to remove a Workshop Contribution from the applicable Workshop pages. If you do so, Valve will no longer have the right to use, distribute, transmit, communicate, publicly display or publicly perform the Workshop Contribution, except that (a) Valve may continue to exercise these rights for any Workshop Contribution that is accepted for distribution in-game or distributed in a manner that allows it to be used in-game, and (b) your removal will not affect the rights of any Subscriber who has already obtained access to a copy of the Workshop Contribution.

I don't really understand the part in bold