ARMA III & Steam WORKSHOP

[seannybgoode 10]

Absolutely not. At least until the Steam Workshop Contribution Agreement is changed or expanded on.

As RKSL-Rock pointed out over on the Armaholic forum, it will cause too many issues if one uploads another developers work without permission. Especially if the theft of work is discrete (ie models, scripts and textures).

It doesn't matter what the licence is. In the United States, mods are considered derivative works, and as such property of the original copyright holder.

[chortles 263]

Just to recap, from SITREP #00014:

Two primary concerns have been voiced so far: how it affects existing content providers and the license terms. We can try to address this in a blog later, but briefly: we honestly do believe there will always be an important place for websites sharing content. There are many ways to differentiate, evolve and offer things Workshop itself does not. Secondly, we are discussing options with Valve regarding the license terms for Arma 3, but to manage expectations: if that does not go through - you will need to accept the existing ones to use this functionality. In any case, we'd like to point out again that we are not stripping away the old methods of saving and loading scenarios. Workshop is an optional enhancement which we do believe massively benefits the user experience.

Note that this is mainly regarding missions (and as we've since learned, Firing Drills courses) since "Add-ons are trickier and we are not sure when we can support this yet (unlikely before the initial release)."

[max power 21]

It doesn't matter what the licence is. In the United States, mods are considered derivative works, and as such property of the original copyright holder.

Proof pl0x.

I think you're saying that if I create a vehicle for arma, and hand place every polygon, write every line of config code, and paint every pixel of texture, that US law demands that it's property of BI despite BI explicitly releasing copyright to the orginal authors. Sounds far fetched.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Max Power

[Dwarden 1125]

I think he was more of implying that if someone release mod on STEAMWORKS, then it's still derivate of his work and the IP is his ... (as long as his work is original work w/o being taken from another IP ;) )

[Dwarden 1125]

Ladies and Gentlemen :) i'm not sure if You know it, but Steam WorkShop Subscriber Agreement received major massive update

http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

which IMHO shall resolve most if not all issues and disputest many content makers from Arma community had with it ...

Edited August 5, 2013 by Dwarden

[Tyl3r99 41]

great news :)

[dale0404 5]

I gather you mean this section in particular?

6. USER GENERATED CONTENT

A. General Provisions

"User Generated Content" means any content you make available to other users through your use of multi-user features of Steam, or to Valve or its affiliates through your use of the Software or otherwise.

You grant Valve and its affiliates the non-exclusive, irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and publicly perform, your User Generated Content, and derivative works of your User Generated Content, in connection with the operation and promotion of the Steam site. If you use Valve cloud storage, you grant us a license to store your information as part of that service. We may place limits on the amount of storage you may use.

If you provide Valve with any feedback or suggestions about Steam, the Software, or any Valve products or services, Valve is free to use the feedback or suggestions however it chooses, without any obligation to account to you.

B. Content Uploaded to the Steam Workshop

Some games or applications available on Steam ("Workshop-Enabled Apps") allow you to create User Generated Content based on or using the Workshop-Enabled App, and to submit that User Generated Content (a “Workshop Contributionâ€) to one or more Steam Workshop web pages. Workshop Contributions can be viewed by the Steam community, and for some categories of Workshop Contributions users may be able to interact with, download or purchase the Workshop Contribution. In some cases, Workshop Contributions may be considered for incorporation by Valve or a third-party developer into a game or into a Subscription Marketplace.

You understand and agree that Valve is not obligated to use, distribute, or continue to distribute copies of any Workshop Contribution and reserves the right, but not the obligation, to restrict or remove Workshop Contributions for any reason.

Specific Workshop-Enabled Apps or Workshop web pages may contain special terms (“App-Specific Termsâ€) that supplement or change the terms set out in this Section. In particular, where Workshop Contributions are distributed for a fee, App-Specific Terms will address how revenue may be shared. Unless otherwise specified in App-Specific Terms (if any), the following general rules apply to Workshop Contributions.

•Workshop Contributions are Subscriptions, and therefore you agree that any Subscriber receiving distribution of your Workshop Contribution will have the same rights to use your Workshop Contribution (and will be subject to the same restrictions) as are set out in this Agreement for any other Subscriptions.

•Notwithstanding the license described in Section 6.A., Valve will only have the right to modify or create derivative works from your Workshop Contribution in the following cases: (a) Valve may make modifications necessary to make your Contribution compatible with Steam and the Workshop functionality or user interface, and (b) Valve or the applicable developer may make modifications to Workshop Contributions that are accepted for in-Application distribution as it deems necessary or desirable to enhance gameplay.

•You may, in your sole discretion, choose to remove a Workshop Contribution from the applicable Workshop pages. If you do so, Valve will no longer have the right to use, distribute, transmit, communicate, publicly display or publicly perform the Workshop Contribution, except that (a) Valve may continue to exercise these rights for any Workshop Contribution that is accepted for distribution in-game or distributed in a manner that allows it to be used in-game, and (b) your removal will not affect the rights of any Subscriber who has already obtained access to a copy of the Workshop Contribution.

Except where otherwise provided in App-Specific Terms, you agree that Valve’s consideration of your Workshop Contribution is your full compensation, and you are not entitled to any other rights or compensation in connection with the rights granted to Valve and to other Subscribers.

C. Representations and Warranties

You represent and warrant to us that you have sufficient rights in all User Generated Content to grant Valve and other affected parties the licenses described under A. and B. above or in any license terms specific to the applicable Workshop-Enabled App or Workshop page. This includes, without limitation, any kind of intellectual property rights or other proprietary or personal rights affected by or included in the User Generated Content. In particular, with respect to Workshop Contributions, you represent and warrant that the Workshop Contribution was originally created by you (or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors).

You furthermore represent and warrant that the User Generated Content, your submission of that Content, and your granting of rights in that Content does not violate any applicable contract, law or regulation.

Edited August 5, 2013 by dale0404
Added Section C

[Dwarden 1125]

yep, section 6. A, B, C are particular interest

[dm 9]

You grant Valve and its affiliates the non-exclusive, irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from... ...your User Generated Content, and derivative works of your User Generated Content

I think people are still going to have problems with this.

I know they make some further statements about "Valve will only" but that opening line is still the risk.

[rksl-rock 1301]

I think people are still going to have problems with this.

I know they make some further statements about "Valve will only" but that opening line is still the risk.

Exactly. I am grateful for the changes and the clarification but I'm still not happy with that line.

[Dwarden 1125]

I think people are still going to have problems with this.

I know they make some further statements about "Valve will only" but that opening line is still the risk.

read it in context with all the points in the agreement ...

anyway my best shot is that you get your laywers opinion on this and send it dwarden@bistudio.com and i will forward it to Valve

or contact Valve directly or try challenge them in public (get army of redddit or similar behind you first lol)

i think it's already sort of 'feat' to actually get Valve to do such major update of theirs old agreement

[dm 9]

read it in context with all the points in the agreement ...

Context means nothing, that line still allows them to legally exploit anything uploaded to steamworks for whatever they want to do with it.

Just because it says further down the line that they will "only do this to do xyz" doesn't remove this right from them.

[Dwarden 1125]

DM, sorry but such vague discussion is pointless at this point ...

imo we did neary as much as was possible to discuss this with Valve

and Valve responded with improved license agreement

if you think it's not enough, get IP lawyer backed challenge against this new version,

send to us (as i can't act just on 'you think something' base)

or Valve or get wide public discussion going on

afterall it's not just problem for Arma modding community but any games on SWS or soon to be introduced to SWS ...

[[aps]gnat 28]

... get your laywers opinion on this and send it ...

Agree with the boys. I don't need a lawyer to say these changes are nothing vs. the original concerns here.

i think it's already sort of 'feat' to actually get Valve to do such major update of theirs old agreement

Sure, rearranged a few words ...... but I hope you're not suggesting that this change was somewhat to address concerns of this community ..... because I'm not buyin' it.

[Dwarden 1125]

Gnat;2458780']Agree with the boys. I don't need a lawyer to say these changes are nothing vs. the original concerns here.

Sure' date=' rearranged a few words ...... but I hope you're not suggesting that this change was somewhat to address concerns of this community ..... because I'm not buyin' it.[/quote']

well that's your decision if you think you expert on IP laws in US ... (as Valve must adhere to the local laws)

i'm not suggesting, i clearly indicate it was done with us taking part in the decision process (realize we are major partner to Valve)

based on on issues raised from our community (but also other content creating communities like TOS Skyrim and Civilisation 5)

i clearly said it multiple times I and we are in discussion with Valve about these 'concerns and issues'

[rksl-rock 1301]

Context means nothing, that line still allows them to legally exploit anything uploaded to steamworks for whatever they want to do with it.

Just because it says further down the line that they will "only do this to do xyz" doesn't remove this right from them.

Exactly. I do genuinely welcome the change and it does negate some of my concerns but no matter the changed wording or the context. It still says:

You grant Valve and its affiliates the non-exclusive, irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and publicly perform, your User Generated Content, and derivative works of your User Generated Content, in connection with the operation and promotion of the Steam site. If you use Valve cloud storage, you grant us a license to store your information as part of that service. We may place limits on the amount of storage you may use.

Now

"in connection with the operation and promotion of the Steam site"

the bit does give me "hope". But it still does not give me a very comfortable feeling. Thinking like a lawyer, I can still imagine some creative ways to get around this :P But I've been screwed over so many times now I am almost the definitive pessimist.

Even under that licence I still have most of the same concerns.

Edited August 5, 2013 by RKSL-Rock

[Sealife 22]

Context means nothing, that line still allows them to legally exploit anything uploaded to steamworks for whatever they want to do with it.

Just because it says further down the line that they will "only do this to do xyz" doesn't remove this right from them.

agreed but to further pinpoint the full context it merley needs an explanation of the granted license that is irrevocable

I>E what are the full implications of

in connection with the operation and promotion of the Steam site. does that mean if another third party is struggling to for promotion the content can be used or does it simply mean they can add usemade content to promote BIS an A3 whisch is no bad thing) .

[max power 21]

I think it's an excellent move and I'm excited to hear that BI and Valve are talking to each other to improve their workshop license.

I think it's difficult to know what they mean about 'operation and promotion'. I'm not saying they would ever do this, but this license would allow Valve to give away free .3ds files of Rock's Eurofighter as an incentive to join the Workshop, or some such thing. I think what they are driving at is they want to be able to make promo materials and images and stuff.

[Tyl3r99 41]

never mind!! just noticed

[Dwarden 1125]

well if something is unclear you can always try contact Valve directly or use me to relay these questions, but only on official quality level ...

[Tyl3r99 41]

how do you edit missions you have already uploaded to workshop?

go to editor and republish??

also i think there should be a way of change the folder destination the files are saved to.

better navigation

[daze23 1]

how do you edit missions you have already uploaded to workshop?

go to editor and republish??

yeah, just keep the name the same. at least that's how it worked with Portal 2

edit: actually that's not really how it works. when you go to re-publish, on the left it should list the items already in the workshop, and when you click one, give you the option to 'update' it

Edited August 7, 2013 by daze23

[progamer 14]

If someone uploads say the jumping script I have from armaholic without permission, can I tell them to remove it? Or is it stuck there with someone else's name on it? I would possibly add it to steam workshop if I means I and the others who helped with it receive credit for it. But right now, saying steam can profit off of it and exploit it makes me want to keep it off of steam.

[chortles 263]

For what this is worth, right now it's missions-only.

[progamer 14]

But missions can contain mods, textures, sounds and scripts that other players have made.

Edited August 6, 2013 by ProGamer