Suggestions for Streamlining, Fixing Stance Adjustment & Movement Speed Controls

[HighXplosive 1]

TLDR Summary

Use the mouse wheel to adjust speed up/down as well as stance up/down and menu scrolling when you hold specific keys.

Keep Toggle Prone, Toggle Crouch.

Fix Lean/Roll.

Get rid of all the confusing/redundant keys for pace.

Add stance indicator

Additional random idea - mouse wheel could be used to adjust throwing distance when a key is held instead of having multiple throwing type keys (Drop, Roll, Underarm, Overarm, Hold in Hand, etc).

Definitions

I am going to start by listing the controls that are relevant for my suggestions so you all know what I am referring to.

The current system in the Alpha imports the control system from Arma 2 and adds new a new adjustment control for stances.

• Stand up
  
• Crouch
  
• Prone
  
• Up (which actually functions as "Toggle Crouch")
  
• Go Prone (which functions as "Toggle Prone")
  
• Adjust (the new stance adjustment feature in Arma 3)
  
• Lean Left and Lean Right (including toggle variants)***
  

It also imports the movement speed controls from Arma 2 and adds a new combat pace toggle (tactical jog).

• Turbo (functions as sprint)
  
• Turbo Toggle (sprint toggle)
  
• Fast Forward (functions as sprint)
  
• Slow Forward (functions as walk)
  
• Walk or run temporary (hold to walk/run, includes toggle variant)
  
• Evasive Left and Right (roll left and right when prone)
  

***I should point out that lean left or right are intended to function as evasive left or right (roll left or right) as stated in the Field Manual controls in the Arma 3 menu but do not at the time of writing in the Alpha. This needs to be fixed. Note that I am using custom controls.

Problem

The problem is quite clear: there's just too many damn controls. There are two sides to this argument - some people love this level of customisation and others loathe the complexity of it. The latter group are the losers at the moment. I have come up with a control scheme that preserves all the controls I have listed while being more simple, intuitive and fluid than the myriad of controls we have here.

I should note my drew a main part of my ideas from the way Splinter Cell Chaos Theory handles multiple movement speeds using the mouse wheel, so for those of you who have played that game, you will have a good idea of what I intend. All I am basically suggesting is that the mouse wheel does stance and menu scrolling as well when you hold specific keys. See below for more detail.

Rethinking the Controls

The theory is rather than seperate all the paces into this confusing set of controls that seems to afford special status to Combat Pace (which is only special by virtue of its profound absence from previous games) is that all the movements speeds are simply on a scale from slow to fast, much like the new stances are from low to high.

There are 4 core movement speeds in Arma 3 Alpha at the moment - Slow, Tactical, Fast, Sprint. When standing these correspond to Walk, Combat Pace, Run and Sprint and these 4 paces exist in Prone or Crouch at ALL height levels (i.e. including the new adjustment heights).

In relation to this, there are 3 core stances in the game - Prone, Crouch and Stand. Each stance has 3 adjustment heights - Low, Mid, High. In additions to this, Crouch and Standing have 2 adjustment steps - Left and Right. Furthermore, Crouch and Standing have Lean Left and Lean Right. Prone has Roll Left and Roll Right instead of Leaning.

Heres how I suggest combining all the above controls/facts into a scheme using the mouse wheel. I will declare a list of suggested new controls and define what they mean and do.

Speed Up/Stance Up/Menu Up - Increases movement speed, when "Adjust Stance" is held it increases stance, when "Scroll Menu" is held it scrolls through the menu.

Speed Down/Stance Down/Menu Down - The opposite of the above.

Strafe Left - Strafes Left, when "Adjust Stance" is held it steps left.

Strafe Right - Opposite of Strafe Left.

Lean Left/Roll Left - Functions exactly as just now (i.e. hold to lean left including in step left stance).

Lean Left Toggle - See above.

Lean Right/Roll Right - Opposite of lean left.

Lean Right Toggle - See above.

Adjustment- Activates Adjustment mode on Stance Up/Down controls when held, deactivates on release - the stance on release is retained, double tapping this key resets your current stance to the core stance at your height (Mid Prone, Mid Crouch, Mid Stand).

Toggle Crouch - Functions like current Up (see definitions above). Exists for the purpose of allowing you to quickly adopt Prone instead of cycling stances.

Toggle Prone - Functions like Go Prone (see definitions above).

Interaction Menu - It shows the existing scroll wheel menu but with the following fundamental differences.

• Your current shouldered weapon is listed so you can "cancel" the menu by selecting it.
  
• The menu only appears for as long as the key is held - on release, it activates the last thing highlighted (to cancel refer to above point about reselecting held weapon).
  
• Alternatively, selection can be done by using another control called "Select Menu Item" which isby default mouse wheel click.
  
• Altnenatively, the scroll menu can be discarded and a widget can be used whereby items are presented graphically and selection by mouse click when held.
  

In addition to all this, there is an option called "Invert Stance/Speed Adjustment" in Game Options that changes the default function of the Speed Up/Stance Up/Menu Up and Speed Down/Stance Down/Menu Down keys. By this I mean scrolling the wheel adjusts your stance instead of speed and the Adjustment key is held to adjust your speed instead of your stance.

What is crucial for this scheme to work is responsiveness of the controls. Finally, to top this all off, there MUST be a stance indicator (and that's an already requested obvious feature regardless of this idea I've presented).

I understand this can be hard to visualise but as said, if you have played Splinter Cell Chaos Theory you will have an idea what I mean. In that game, the mouse wheel is used to adjust your speed. To reiterate - all I am basically suggesting is that the mouse wheel does stance and menu scrolling as well when you hold specific keys.

Random Idea

Mouse wheel could used to adjust throwing distance of grenades when a key is held OR scrolls through grenade types.

Edited March 9, 2013 by HighXplosive

[Stagler 39]

Movement seems legit to me.

[davids 10]

I think the movement stances seem fine, the only thing I think is wrong is I haven't learned all the new buttons! Once that is learned, it should be super smooth!

[cross888 10]

You could just reassign your keys?

Personally I think its a great.

As for grenade throwing just holding down G would be better for posting grenades and lobbing them.

[alasdair 1]

Solution: Change your control settings.

[MentalTM 1]

with all due respect, re-assignment of keys is the answer

[HighXplosive 1]

With all due respect, you don't understand the problem.

Reassigning keys doesn't SOLVE the problem because the problem is that there ARE too many keys. Furthermore, reassigning keys doesn't SOLVE the problem that the mouse wheel is an excellent tool for MULTIPLE purposes but key assignation only allows it to be assigned to ONE purpose.

Reassigning keys is a WORKAROUND, and a poor one, because if I do reassign my keys so that my mouse wheel changes stance I still have a ridiculous amount of keys for movement speeds. In addition, making my mouse wheel adjust stance means it can no longer be used to traverse the scroll menu. In other words, you can do one or the other, not all.

The proposal I have given is intended to simplify the functionality of keys AS WELL AS introduce some sensible user interface controls to a clunky scroll wheel menu.

You have misunderstood the problem and the improvement this would make to the controls if you think reassigning keys solves the probem.

[Smurf 12]

Would be nice to know what BIS is planning regarding the whole control scheme, what they may what to change, add or remove (grenades, action menu, weapon selection, commanding structure...) before going in a deeper discussion.

[froggyluv 2136]

Would certainly prefer mouse wheel for stance, not sure about speed.

[dayglow 2]

I remember Spinter Cell used the mouse wheel for speed and it was smooth to control. Not a bad idea.

Dont need to remove any controls for traditionalists, just have a stance and speed incrimate up/down controls to map, then bingo-bango you can map to mouse wheel. We can already do combined commands, so you could have speed up/down mapped to mouse wheel and stance up/down mapped to say CNTL+mouse wheel.

So you can multiple ways to control movement for everyone.

Edited March 9, 2013 by DayGlow

[tortuosit 486]

up-prone fast-turbo-run: First or all BI should finally implement clear terminology in the key bindings dialog. Really, it's time now. It's just some text changes. Life could be so much easier there. It's easy to change. Unlike other suggestions, it's easily possible.

Your rethinking is logical rethinking of what we now have with stance adjustment. Good thoughts. Speed/Stance should IMO both have

a) +/- capabilites

b) toggle: last/back (in an undo/redo fashion)

c) All stances/speeds directly: can be keybound specifically (we have that for turbo speed e.g.) as user wishes

The Keybinds windows needs to be reworked, organized and use clear terminologies and maybe hints.

I don't understand how users can vote against your ideas. It does them no harm.

BTW, stance indicators are available as user made addons.

Edited March 9, 2013 by tortuosit

[Placebo 29]

I trust that those disagreeing aren't doing so through any kind of personal agenda as that would be contrary to the forum rules, if you disagree with a post fine, disagree, if you're doing it solely because you disagree with the poster as a person that's not on, ignore the thread and move to another please.

[Gorbachev 1]

I can't say I like this specific scheme but I voted yes. BI needs to consolidate controls. It's very possible but we can only bug them to make it happen.

[cross888 10]

I trust that those disagreeing aren't doing so through any kind of personal agenda as that would be contrary to the forum rules, if you disagree with a post fine, disagree, if you're doing it solely because you disagree with the poster as a person that's not on, ignore the thread and move to another please.

Not at all? I just don't see what the issue is I mean its personal preference i changed my keys around ie SHIFT is now my Adjust Position Key, Space is now my sprint Key, left Ctrl is not assigned as handbreak any more so i can use my PTT on team speak.

Simply put just re define your keys problem solved? There's a mod for stances?

I dont see how this is a vendetta I think its all relevant what i said?

[HighXplosive 1]

Not at all? I just don't see what the issue is I mean its personal preference i changed my keys around ie SHIFT is now my Adjust Position Key, Space is now my sprint Key, left Ctrl is not assigned as handbreak any more so i can use my PTT on team speak.

Simply put just re define your keys problem solved? There's a mod for stances?

I dont see how this is a vendetta I think its all relevant what i said?

Interesting - he never said he was talking about you. I think that speaks for itself. I also note that your profile states you are friends with Stagler and that your posts occured at almost the exact same time as a few of the other first posters. And that you are both in the same clan with some of the other first few posts. Just pointing out some facts, that's all.

I can't say I like this specific scheme but I voted yes. BI needs to consolidate controls. It's very possible but we can only bug them to make it happen.

I agree. Consolidating controls and then making all the obvious improvements we have wanted for years would help 'modernise' the game to involve those players who simply found the game unintuitive and sluggish. The complexity of this game should derive from its niche status as a brillaint military simulator, not from fighting the physical limitations of hardware devices. Such a change would be a benefit to everyone - even those who can't see it.

Edited March 9, 2013 by HighXplosive

[cross888 10]

Interesting - he never said he was talking about you. I think that speaks for itself. I also note that your profile states you are friends with Stagler and that your posts occurred at almost the exact same time as a few of the other first posters. And that you are both in the same clan with some of the other first few posts. Just pointing out some facts, that's all.

I Know stagler from TF86 that clans been dead for years, He makes FSB units and Spetznatz that I'm using to make a UKSF Mod. Al-thou i don't see what that's got to do with this thread or you?

And on that Note i think BI should really focus on removing the Nano Suit stuff from the Opfor remodel the helmet and just stick with the Gorkas there wearing that's far more important then something you could fix by admin' yourself.

[Placebo 29]

Let's stick to the topic at hand and not bring in personal soap operas please.

[HighXplosive 1]

Placebo, permit me this small transgression. I have no appetite for childish soap operas either, but I do want to defend this idea I have carefully spent time writing by discrediting the first few replies and poll votes and I'm sure you agree that defending an idea is on topic and relevant so long as you don't become offensive and childish. I am simply presenting some facts for people to read and for them to make decisions about the 'quality' of the first few replies. After that, I will not mention it anymore unless more unfair criticism is made.

http://s16.postimage.org/i55in8lrp/image.jpg

http://www.tsviewer.com/index.php?page=ts_viewer&ID=987844

I will let this information speak for itself.

---------- Post added at 18:50 ---------- Previous post was at 18:46 ----------

I remember Spinter Cell used the mouse wheel for speed and it was smooth to control. Not a bad idea.

Dont need to remove any controls for traditionalists, just have a stance and speed incrimate up/down controls to map, then bingo-bango you can map to mouse wheel. We can already do combined commands, so you could have speed up/down mapped to mouse wheel and stance up/down mapped to say CNTL+mouse wheel.

So you can multiple ways to control movement for everyone.

I should probably say that I agree that no controls should be removed. More options to customise controls are always good, provided they are clearly labelled. "Up" is hardly a suitable name for a control that makes you CROUCH!

[Rykane 10]

From playing the Alpha, I feel that I agree with the suggestion posted, as it could fix the issue of having too many keys for paces and stances. Using the scroll wheel could fix this by pressing a key with the scroll wheel adjusting the stances and movement speed (similar to splinter cell). I do love the suggestion of using scroll wheel to adjust the throwing distance. There also NEEDS to be a stance indicator as stated in the first post, although its a mil sim you don't have the same body awareness as you would in real-life.

[Cyper 18]

Reassigning keys doesn't SOLVE the problem because the problem is that there ARE too many keys.

I voted ''No''.

Nothing is going to be removed and thats it. You're suggesting something controversial because you suggest to remove core features - to make it more simple - and that wont happen! Change your controls, adapt, or consider another game.

Because you' not going to take arma away from me by undermining its formula like the diluters hijacked RO2.

That is my opinion, and I wont say anything more.

[cross888 10]

I voted ''No''.

Nothing is going to be removed and thats it. You're suggesting something controversial because you suggest to remove core features - to make it more simple - and that wont happen! Change your controls, adapt, or consider another game.

Because you' not going to take arma away from me by undermining its formula like the diluters hijacked RO2.

That is my opinion, and I wont say anything more.

Totally agree its just case of changing your key bindings :)

[NeMeSiS 11]

There also NEEDS to be a stance indicator as stated in the first post, although its a mil sim you don't have the same body awareness as you would in real-life.

This is the only thing i agree on, i cant really tell the difference between low stance and high crouch, so an indicitator would be nice.

I am still not entirely sure why the other suggestions cant be done with rebinding the keys, so i voted no, also because i think the default one is better, i dont want everything put on my scroll wheel.

[dayglow 2]

That's why there needs to an incrimate up/down command for stance and movement speed, then no traditional key presses are removed and there would be a way to bind movement and stance to the mouse wheel.

I think we should encourage people to think outside the box because clunky movement and control always has been a drawback from the FP/Arma series.

[tortuosit 486]

I'm not interestested in personal soap operas, guys. Lacking functions have to be added, nothing has to be removed, key bindings dialogue has to be sorted and organized. I'm thankful of the valuable thoughts of OP.

My thoughts about what we need: Just the stances example...

a)
Control Stance (as we have it now, for enabling stance up/down in conjunction with w/s)
b)
Stance up
Stance down
(i.e., both bindable to one key!)
c)
Go stance 1
Go stance 2 (prone)
Go stance 3
Go stance 4
Go stance 5 (crouch)
Go stance 6
Go stance 7
Go stance 8 (stand upright)
Go stance 9
d)
Last stance toggle (kinda undo/redo)

Everything else should be left for the tradition, e.g. the stance5/stance8 toggle which is usually "x". And guys, asking about c) means asking for user freedom. It does not mean BI should bind them all per default and killing your traditional key assignments.

AS SIMPLE AS THAT! IT IS POSSIBLE! IT IS SIMPLE! IT DOES NOT REQUIRE INCREDIBLE DEVELOPER SKILLS! DO IT, BI!

Edited March 10, 2013 by tortuosit

[jblackrupert 14]

Ability to change stance via the mouse wheel would be nice.

As for the "Reassign your keys" being the answer... Please show me how to bind the mouse wheel to the stance.... since it's so simple and the solution to any problems..