RagDoll

[daftmedic 1]

I believe the Rag Doll is a little to Rag Doll.

So when you get shot at the moment your body seems to loose all bone structure and muscle mass.

In my not so little experience of death and injury due to aggressive action, the body does not act like its acting in game as it still has bone structure and connective tissue providing natural end points to range of movement.

I can quantify my comments with a wealth of image data we use to map out injuries due to blast, penetrating high velocity etc etc.

[djdafi 1]

I feel like it has its ups and downs.

At first hand, when I saw an enemy get shot, his body basically lost all control and "plopped" to the ground. It looks pretty real on a death animation.

The other hand, there was a time when I died, I flew into the air, much like the giant in Skyrim launching you extremely high into the air, but not as high.

[Guest]

The main problem with rag doll is that it simulates instant death, and only instant death.

In real life a soldier could be fatally shot in many regions, and he will not just instantly die. For example you could be shot in the chest with no armour, and you would drop to the ground whilst struggling or dying or what not.

To be honest death in real life is very gruesome and not nice.

The only time rag doll is realistic is in events where explosions send people flying and in insta-death situations like head shots.

My opinion however is that I much prefer rag doll over animations, and I am really happy that it is here.

Edit: If BIS could somehow combine rag doll and animation that would be good. For example, you could play a death animation, but at any time that animation could be interupted by rag doll. This could be complex though, just a suggstion.

[Zyromkiru 10]

I gotta admit I usually kill people in 1 hit so.. looks fine to me :)

also they said they were trying to make it better although idk if this is the FINAL rag doll or not but time will tell and we have until Q3 to find out :D

[Hartmann 10]

It probably could use a bit of refinement, but it looks roughly accurate if you compare it to authentic footage of these sort of things happening. A little stiffness in the ragdolls and a slighly faster falling down actually seem accurate to me, it should probably be even a bit faster.

[rye1 21]

Drop like liquid.

[djdafi 1]

I do tend to like how the enemies lean over a guard post when they are shot. Sometimes spooks me into thinking they are leaning over trying to scout.

[metalcraze 290]

ArmA3 just needs to use the mix like many games today do. Death animations blending into a ragdoll midway.

Since BIS has their own mocap studio it shouldn't be a problem for them to record something like 20 death anims so it won't be as non-varied as it was before.

[EDcase 87]

I agree Daft but I don't think its possible with the BiS system.

I'd like to see a bit more inertia so the body is pushed slightly when hit.

Explosions should throw them outwards more. You have to get a grenade right under someone to launch them up which looks about right from what I've seen.

[PitViper 0]

I really like the ragdolls but they could be tweaked a little. They could perhaps be just a touch more rigid. The only glaring problem is when we see knees or elbows hinging in the wrong direction. I don't know if BIS could add one way hinges at those locations on the jelly man.

[johncage 30]

I agree Daft but I don't think its possible with the BiS system.

I'd like to see a bit more inertia so the body is pushed slightly when hit.

Explosions should throw them outwards more. You have to get a grenade right under someone to launch them up which looks about right from what I've seen.

grenades wouldn't launch people up, only something like a bomb would.

[qbert 10]

I think while it may not be the most realistic to see enemies just flop over like they lost their spines, it does make it feel like your gun is having a real impact. Not to mention running people over now actually works, instead of teleporting the enemy forward they actually crumple and roll around and stuff. It's arguable that this is a gameplay opinion for me, not a realism thing, but I like the ragdoll.

[max power 21]

The main problem with rag doll is that it simulates instant death, and only instant death.

Instant unconsciousness, which is somewhat more common than instant death, but not as common as being fatally injured and conscious, I think.

---------- Post added at 22:07 ---------- Previous post was at 22:05 ----------

grenades wouldn't launch people up, only something like a bomb would.

Apparently even 20 lbs of plastic explosive doesn't really have much of a 'launching' effect. High brisance explosives have more of a shattering effect. I think if a high explosive was detonated close enough to launch your body any significant distance, it would not be launching it in one piece.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Max Power

[Freighttrain4 1]

If they could just Mocap deaths while moving, and maybe a bit more back support, if you're holding your weapon forward and leaning into it like trained. if you were shot you would fall forwards, my experiences in game. They just fall straight down.

Now with movements. if someone is shot while sprinting, they should face plant(lol imagine) you get the idea. certain animations+phys= a good feeling when you drop some poor bastard.

And in cases where explosives hit people. They wouldn't fly away. well. not them as a whole. They'd be a red mist and bits falling all around you, and things like that. mines, and grenades don't rip them bit by bit but they would dismember someone or just spray fragmentation which would result in being pushed back a little.

I just want a better MEDEVAC system where if someone is so injured and theirs no medic then they can get picked up and treated in the helo so they don't die. But that's too realistic for some chaps.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Freighttrain4

[AbortedMan 1]

I just want a better MEDEVAC system where if someone is so injured and theirs no medic then they can get picked up and treated in the helo so they don't die. But that's too realistic for some chaps.

That happened to me in an ArmA 2 MSO campaign with TacticalGamer after my squad was attacked by a vodnik. I was unconscious for some time when another blufor squad found my injured body and loaded me into a humvee. I could faintly hear them talking as they stabilized me and I faded in and out of consciousness on the ride back to base for further treatment. It took about 9 minutes to get to the base perimeter where I finally died (critically injured death timer was set to around ten minutes without critical treatment from a medic). That time staring at a fading in and out black screen as they raced back to base to save me was one of the awesomest, high suspense, and memorable moments in my 15 years of gaming.

I have high hopes for those sorts of moments in ArmA 3.

[spamurai 3]

The Characters simply go inert when they register being "dead". IMO, the rag doll is a bit too doll like. They just tip over like some one literally just switched them off. The doll does not appear to inherit any impulse from the impact of whatever hit them.

A character will be moving forward, take a high energy hit to his front, center mast... and he just tips over forward. lights out. Or they're standing there, in idle animation.... then switched off and crumple into a pile.

They need a little bit of animation to react for a split second, set up an appropriate pose, need only be a few frames of animation, then release to a rag doll.

Nothing overly dramatic, like an Oscar winning Hollywood event. Something very subtle, but just enough to help guide a satisfactory rag doll sequence that doesn't look so.... wooden.

[max power 21]

The Characters simply go inert when they register being "dead". IMO, the rag doll is a bit too doll like. They just tip over like some one literally just switched them off. The doll does not appear to inherit any impulse from the impact of whatever hit them.

A character will be moving forward, take a high energy hit to his front, center mast... and he just tips over forward. lights out. Or they're standing there, in idle animation.... then switched off and crumple into a pile.

They need a little bit of animation to react for a split second, set up an appropriate pose, need only be a few frames of animation, then release to a rag doll.

Nothing overly dramatic, like an Oscar winning Hollywood event. Something very subtle, but just enough to help guide a satisfactory rag doll sequence that doesn't look so.... wooden.

That is what people who are shot in the head look like. To even see it on film, it is quite eerie.

[dmarkwick 261]

I think the rag doll isn't too bad. IMO "realistic" ragdoll should be heavy with no bounce though, I've seen a few bounces so far. I should also like to see ragdoll applied temporarily, say to a unit hit hard but not killed, so that he can recover and move off again.

[AbortedMan 1]

I think the rag doll isn't too bad. IMO "realistic" ragdoll should be heavy with no bounce though, I've seen a few bounces so far. I should also like to see ragdoll applied temporarily, say to a unit hit hard but not killed, so that he can recover and move off again.

This currently happens when you get hit by a relatively slow vehicle, but not killed. You ragdoll for a bit then can get back up and scurry to safety. It supposedly happens when you eject from a moving vehicle, or is at least planned to be implemented.

[spamurai 3]

That is what people who are shot in the head look like. To even see it on film, it is quite eerie.

Yeah. And that makes sense for critical hits to an area like the head... but not every hit will result in "instant off".

[Andarne 1]

Personally, not had an issue with the ragdolls, but will welcome any changes.

[My Fing ID 0]

I like the rag doll; really feels like I've taken down the enemy. My only complaint with it is how they drop their weapon; it simply detaches from the model and falls. The biggest things I'd like to see though are:

1) Injuries that take people out of the fight. Lets face it no matter how many times I shoot your foot you're probably not going to die. My go unconscious, but one thing that I find a constant annoyance is that it seems the second the enemy is out of action they're always dead. It was one of the things I really appreciated with Swat 3.

2) Another thing I really appreciated with Swat 3 was bullet holes being placed where you shot the enemy. We see them on buildings and such, but the enemy always gets the same blood effects regardless of where you hit them. I could see a standard blood effect for things like grenades though.

3) Of course explosives bring me to dismemberment.

While I won't hold my breath for any of these changes I did like that a casualty system was put into Arma II. It seemed a bit ridged and odd (I remember hitting enemies with a burst from a machinegun and they'd just flip into casualty mode) but it was an interesting addition. That flip to casualty mode gives me a thought too; give each limb and trunk shots different animations. Also be nice if the casualties went to find cover so their buddies or they themselves could bandage up. As is I see the enemy bandage in the open all the time (I know, alpha :) ).

All in all though absolutely cannot wait for the full Arma III experience. This just keeps getting better and better, and no matter how much I may bitch about unrealistic missions, I will constantly recommend this series to anyone who's interested in a realistic war game. So many great experiences.

Also someone said something about flipping death animations and then going ragdoll, I dunno. If you're running and you're hit in the head you're going down exactly as you were when you got shot. No weird animation, you're just going to drop. Also bullets aren't going to push someone around, they just don't have the mass. That said injury animations, I'd say yes. Someone gets shot in the chest and grabs at that spot, AI then says 'find cover' and that's what it does. I'd even be down for the weapon flying out of a soldiers hands in the case of explosions and such. Then again if you have it attached properly it's not going anywhere (well short of gear ripping but really how far do we want to go?).

[MasterDon 10]

I agree. I find that there are other issues that need more attention, but ragdoll is an important new feature, so any updates are welcome to me!

[mr_centipede 31]

I like the ragdoll, but after they are dead, their fingers are straight stiff, not natural at all. It's like those T-pose when you're modelling them. Just my minor quirks, if they're looking into it, just might as well give some feedbacks. (in a civilized, calm manner of course)

[max power 21]

Yeah. And that makes sense for critical hits to an area like the head... but not every hit will result in "instant off".

Yeah, I was just saying that that animation is appropriate under the circumstances where someone is rendered instantly unconscious. But to expand on my answer, I also think that this idea of bullet pushing people around is a little fake. IE, shooting someone in the head, like I was describing, does not cause their head to move. Their body just stops doing whatever it was doing and falls.