TOH flight model- if, when, how?

[samb 15]

I recon it's going to come with beta (check newest video on official arma 3 yt channel)

[LeeManatee 4]

if it comes with beta, we better have full FM optional like in toh.

i avoid flying in arma 2 since terrible sluggish floating arcadish flight model, whlile i GREATLY enjoy TKOH expert flight model, which is to be honest not the most realistic one, but clearly well balanced for comfort and realism. arcade flight model is same floating crap like arma 2 got, but with a bit more responsive controls.

Edited March 5, 2013 by n7snk

[samb 15]

I hope for the same, and after reading posts from BiS guys here I came to conclusion that it is going to happen It was the only reason I bought Alpha to be honest- and no offence to BiS, they make excellent games, I have bought OFP, and all Arma series so far (well actually I bought A2 twice). It's just I am totally sucked into TOH flight model- can't wait to fly it with ground troops to support in A3!

[CombatComm 10]

The more a game hypes features like TOH FM, and yes it was confirmed by a dev on this forum, and dosent deliver the less I trust them. It just seems sooo lazy. I understand there are a lot of technical things I dont understand that have to be worked around but as I play ARMA 3 I cant help but feel without some of these promised things it feels a lot like Arma 2.5. TOH was a biig new feature. Hope to see full implementation.

[.kju 3244]

the source files already include xmls for the FM

[samb 15]

Awesome. I guess no rotorlib yet? Or is it present, but not enabled?

[hannibal636 11]

all good, something to look forward to...

[BigBANGtheory 10]

Will we get some kind of trimmer control for the Arma 3 helis?

[LeeManatee 4]

had some TOH session today and a3 session.

i would like to say that a3 choppers flight model feels COMPLETELY WEIGHTLESS and FLOATY AS HELL what in the end give a feeling that i fly UFO instead if helicopter.

TOH flight model (expert) even if buggy as hell will be always better than current UFO. accessibility is good thing, but TOH expert FM is a must to have in alpha or atleast beta.

[jake_krieger 10]

Please for the love of everything that is holy : Make the default flight model of the helicopters in ArmA 3 , like the TKOH expert flight model.

[LeeManatee 4]

well i would not mind arcade AND expert flight models avaible tbh

[samb 15]

We cannot have just the expert mode from TOH, but at the same time people want to have balance. You can perform all the star wars stuns with default physics, TOH is simply too realistic to let You fight with enemy using that physics model. I personally will fly coop only so I don't mind, but there are people who will. Anyways Alpha is so gorgeous, can't wait to spin off that littlebird for a little ride over the island:)

[LeeManatee 4]

i can perform star wars aerobatics on expert on TOH just aswell. and i feel way more comfortable to do landings and low altitude raids on expert FM.

and no, toh is not TOO realistic. it realistic enought to feel that you are flying a rotorwing instead of floating in space. but it's not as realistic as black shark or x-plane flight models, so it's not "hardcore" or "realistic" it's a nice compromiss between arcade FM and realism. Exacly what arma need...

if person can't fly for shit he would not be able to fly no matter what's the difficulty. if person can fly he can do it on any difficulty.

to put it simple: if person crash helicopters in arma 2, he will crash them in arma 3 fm, trying to keep it 'accesible' artificially only make things worse.

if person want to fly he will learn. if person want to snipe he will learn how to. trying to appeal to people by removing any kind of learning curve making games dull and overall faceless like general shooters.

TOH expert fm is COMFORTABLE to transport and it's comfortable for gunruns. but sure, leaving adjustable fm settings will be good idea for completely hopeless cases, even tho it would not help the case.

[samb 15]

You got me wrong here mate. I am all for TOH FM! It is not too realistic, it's just the oposite- dafault one is too arcadish. And no, You won't do that crazy shit You can do with default FM with TOH one, because You're not supposed to- it's meant to let You do more or less what RL helicopters can do, with Arma FM You can do the same plus fly upside down. I also feel much more confident flying TOH FM. In fact, the best control I have over my helicopter is with FSX's Dodo Sim- considered the most realistic helicopter simulator on the market (coaxial systems excluded).

Once again- TOH is the way to go for me, but I understand there are people for whom even easy mode on TOH will seem too difficult at the beginning.

EDIT: here is a lil bit longer explanation on my view:

http://dslyecxi.com/take-on-helicopters-flight-model/ (commented as "FunkySamek")

Edited March 18, 2013 by SamB

[LeeManatee 4]

never listen to dsl, he is full of s****, and will block you from discussion if you disagree with him, he also work for bis, and he promote some various devices from various manufacturers which are practicly useless for arma, while he imply otherwise. let's say udder pedals from CH. of course they are good, but it's a no way to buy expensive CH products flight gear to play arma, especially when fm don't require rudders as much as you use in more descent flight games.

same goes for track ir, which is quite fun and expensive toy to play with but it's clearly NOT as usefull for infantry, as for jets aerobatics where it's essential.

from what i see seems like it's more like pr "damage control" bullshit from a "guy from community" while he clearly not since he employed at bis.

[samb 15]

From what I understand he got employed just recently by BiS. As for rudders- I believe there is no room for NOT having them with TOH FM in place. I mean You can fly with m/ kb, or a joystick and rudders. The latter one is the way to go. I own a steering wheel I use for Richard Burns rally, and it's pedals work as rudders for helicopters. As for Trackir- I am going to buy it, not because of what Dslyecxi said so, but because I felt I was needing it many times before. I don't care for it as much for the infantry, but for helicopters it's really useful. Anyways- back to the topic;)

EDIT: BTW he didn't block me after my comment on his page even if I disagreed with him;)

Edited March 18, 2013 by SamB

[chortles 263]

n7snk, Dslyecxi somehow has less credibility because he's supposedly a dev? :-P

SamB, Dslyecxi has done contract video work for BI Simulations which =/= BI, although that's paid further dividends such as him getting to do the Arma 3 Alpha Community Guide video for BI with presumably more planned.

[metalcraze 290]

I used pedals from a cheapo steering wheel I later sold for 30 bucks :rolleyes:

[samb 15]

Well, there is nothing wrong with working for BiS, or BI Simulations;)

[deepfried 1]

So, what exactly is included in the ToH "flight model"? is that just the physics of how the helicopter handles or is it everything, like startup sequences, helicopter models, hud instruments and indicators, features like over torque, hot starts, trim control etc?

In other words just how like ToH will helicopters in Arma 3 be?

Edited March 18, 2013 by Deepfried

[[evo] dan 79]

But I wonder if they go and do it for the helis, how many people will play it on expert mode? Pretty much everytime I played TOH online it was on the easiest model, whereas I always fly on expert in SP/with clanmates.

Go buys TOH for realism, puts it on lowest realism.....honestly why?

[4 IN 1 0]

FPDR

Saying someone is full of shit even when it make sense, yeah, talking about grow up......

Anyway I actually understand Dslyecxi point. If we ever get TOH FM it should be opinional and server side dependent.

I can also see what will happen when a public server use TOH FM(meaning kids ignoring warning and makes a lots of unwanted explosions)

Also I can predict that a lots of simers will start to request things like advance avionics and FCS(A problem for me with the HIND DLC that I did not buy), or rage quit because expert mode is still far away from being fully realistic(as did in TOH).

But still, TOH FM on easy is simply a more advance ARMA 2 FM where I see no problem on reproduce How Dsl fly his MH6 in ARMA2

It will be a nice addition to the game, but not mandatory nor should be enforcing.

Edited March 18, 2013 by 4 IN 1

[metalcraze 290]

More importantly it's about pushing ArmA forward. If TOH FM already has difficulty settings with the lowest being almost no different from ArmA2's - why not add it?

ArmA is BIS flagship and leaving advanced features in spinoffs is not a good thing. It's not like they will have to invent TOH FM from scratch.

See what Franze & Co did with their AH64 mod thus far. It just screams "I only lack TOH FM to be fully awesome".

[LeeManatee 4]

So, what exactly is included in the ToH "flight model"? is that just the physics of how the helicopter handles or is it everything, like startup sequences, helicopter models, features like over torque, hot starts, trim control etc?

In other words just how like ToH will helicopters in Arma 3 be?

helicopter handling mostly. i can live without trims, atlaest on 3 basic expert flight models presented like light, hediuma nd heavy helicopters (excluding hinds, there i need some trimms)

to describe it more it's about helicopter being a helicopter, controll over collective, need to compensation of main rotor rotation on lift and descention. hard to explain. you need to feel it. once you got familiar with it you start to feel how to handle your helicopter and it becomes a lot more comfortable on let's say landing and overall flight. i mean it's not a floating piece of soap anymore but something close to helicopter, so you can be precise and confident about how your helicopter will fly.

Edited March 18, 2013 by n7snk

[deepfried 1]

It will be a nice addition to the game, but not mandatory nor should be enforcing.

Though, I have to ask, if its not mandatory woudn't you have to be an idiot to use it? I mean assuming you want to "win" you're going to use the easiest FM regardless of which you enjoy more from a sim perspective, after all Arma is not a flight sim, its a milsim which is often played competitively and a helicopter is just a tool to that end. So logically I would say make it mandatory, as otherwise very few will chose to handicap themselves by using it and it will have been a waste of dev time.