Please fix the pathfinding

[liq3 1]

I've played a few hours of the game so far. The walrus AI is absolutely horrible. I don't understand how you could possibly release the game with the pathfinding the way it is. My walruses have frequently gotten stuck on things (low walls mainly), or just been completely incapable of navigating around a large boulder. Assuming they even arrive at their destination, they often spend 80% of their time badly trying to navigate around something (like a low incline).

I feel like I'm spending 90% of my time babysitting walruses instead of playing the game. I find it appalling that you were willing to release a game with pathfinding this bad. I want to play the game right now, except I'm not, because I know I'm going to have to deal with the terrible pathfinding instead of actually playing it.

[Demonen 1]

This is even after the patch?

[NedStar 1]

Even with the patch the AI is absolutely abysmal and frankly I'm hugely disappointed by the fact this was raised many times during P&C testing. From the looks of it's current state, little to no effort was put into making this better.

It will probably get better in the future but I was hoping for a far improved AI when I played the P&C back in April.

This is going to hurt the review scores a lot I do reckon.

[Suranis 1]

Ì honestly think the Walruses would do ok if the they were allowed to rotate in place.

[harbinger 1]

I have to agree - Walrus pathfinding is broken.

Just for fun - I put two laptops side-by-side, one running Beta 3, one running Release, and asked a Walrus to cross a bridge. The results are hilarious. If there's any interest - I'll video.

[Demonen 1]

I say they open up vehicle AI to modding under the condition/license that they are free to use any and all pieces AI mods they find useful to patch the full game.

I'm not much of an AI programmer myself (I just do rather boring webapps and statistics engines for a living), but I'm sure there are a lot of very capable people out there that would LOVE the challenge.

Hell, I'll even take a stab at it for fun, perhaps I accidentally create something useful (such as "fast algorithm to calculate if somewhere is easier to get out of with backing up, rather than trying to turn around").

I know from some previous work that writing a pathfinder is REALLY hard, especially on complex terrain. That's why I dumbed down my game-like prototype to use a simplified navigation mesh.

Problem was that this would either make the vehicles clip through the ground following the simplified mesh, or hover slightly over it.

Anyway, yeah, turning-on-the-spot would make it a whole lot simpler to pathfind in tight spots. Since it's clearly an electric vehicle it probably has one motor per wheel, so it's not at all impossible to swirl like a top.

Just make the back wheels steerable and the suspension on the middle wheels able to retract them or whatever. If they can fly to a different solar system, surely they can turn a wheeled vehicle on the spot.

All this being said, the Walrus AI is mediocre, it's not horrible. Far from it. I remember some pretty frustrating points in other "complex terrain" games where the AI was much much worse, even when the vehicles could turn on the spot AND ignore terrain detail (rocks, trees etc).

[st!gar 3]

Just for fun - I put two laptops side-by-side, one running Beta 3, one running Release, and asked a Walrus to cross a bridge. The results are hilarious. If there's any interest - I'll video.

There certainly is interest.

[GrillsBears 1]

There certainly is interest.

Seconded.

I also agree with Demonens post. In addition to what he said, I don't get why so many rocks and low walls were added to the maps if the AI can't cope with them to begin with. They're annoying even in manual control and don't add anything to gameplay as far as I can see.

[Sardinia 10]

The walls that the ai continue to shoot and waste ammo at when the target is behind them our highly annoying..

But the pathfinding problem is that the waypoint triggers are too small. If a walrus rolls past one going in the correct direction but "misses" the waypoint then it will do its crazy 7 point turn and compound the problem by remapping waypoints that its turn radius cant hit.

[Suranis 1]

But the pathfinding problem is that the waypoint triggers are too small. If a walrus rolls past one going in the correct direction but "misses" the waypoint then it will do its crazy 7 point turn and compound the problem by remapping waypoints that its turn radius cant hit.

Thats a really well spotted piece of info there.

[beugnen 10]

+1 please fix/open-up-to-modding pathfinding

[Tontow 1]

But the pathfinding problem is that the waypoint triggers are too small. If a walrus rolls past one going in the correct direction but "misses" the waypoint then it will do its crazy 7 point turn and compound the problem by remapping waypoints that its turn radius cant hit.

Its not that they are too small, its that the AI wants to get exactly on top of the point instead of within x range of the point.

And Yes, Please do open up the AI for modding.

[L3TUC3 32]

Reminds me of standard OFP/Arma pathfinding by BIS. Doubt a whole lot will change, but who knows?

[beugnen 10]

here's a very nice API for autonomous steering by Mr Craig Reynolds called OpenSteer

[equilibriumki 1]

hi , fist i'm apologies for my bad english.

everybody here know pathfinding is horrible? but i think i have as a solution:

may be it would be great if collision with rocks, others wallrus do not make damage. i think it should be more better?

[Gnrl_Grad 1]

I don't mind the walrus ai so much although I would like to see it improved too. But these are ai controlled unmanned robot units and will never drive as good as if human controlled. They will be slower, they will get stuck the odd time (maybe less often would be good!) but that is kinda realistic. It's not stopping me from enjoying the game but maybe I haven't experienced it as bad. I like their current realistic driving physics and hope they don't make them twirl and slide around unrealistically to accomodate easier pathfinding.

[st!gar 3]

But these are ai controlled unmanned robot units and will never drive as good as if human controlled. They will be slower, they will get stuck the odd time (maybe less often would be good!) but that is kinda realistic.

Ah. I'm assuming you know an awful lot about robotics, artificial intelligence and engineering since you can tell us exactly how it's realistic for incredibly advanced military robots from the far future to behave, then?

:icon_rolleyes:

[Mortem86 10]

So i am donewith this game ruined for me with those walruses!

They cant even drive over a god damn bridge without falling off, this isnt a strategygame its a Walrustamagotchi, i dont want to babysit the walrus the whole time....for what do i need 4 walruses when only one can do anything usefull and thats the one you are controling yourself.

Its just terrible.

This is not Carrier Command...this is Walrustamagotchi

---------- Post added at 10:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 AM ----------

You dont mind that youcant plan anything,

You dont mind that you cant send a Walrustamagotchi to a repairstation without getting him stuck and destroying himself on a road and driving against a rock.

You dont mind you cant let them assist you when you drive upfront because the moment you got shoot they are going crazy and just drive against a tree?

You dont mind that they drive in "battle" so bad that they try to turn them self into such a bad position that they cant even shoot?

You dont mind sending them over a longer path and wonder why that walrus fall off a bridge.

You dont mind seeing them utterly destroyed beside higher armor and better weapon because they just dont shoot.

You dont mind taking always control over one walrus and the other stand behind so you have "reserve" units for your one vs rest army.

You dont mind that you arent really feelbeing in command when you always need to babysit those damn walruses

You dont mind that controlling your units isnt optional and more a must do.

You dont mind being a strategy game those walrus destroy any strategy in this game?

You dont mind they cant even take care of them self?

You dont mind that the micromanagment in this game beside being normaly a "grandstrategy" game is higher then in Starcraft 2 because of those walruses

You dont mind losing several walruses because of being totally stuck and doesent have a method to "unstuck" them beside "the hook" that you dont have right of the start in the campaing.

You dont mind to have a tremendous amount of productioncost because of the walruses?

You dont mind that you cant conentrate on the bigger picture because the moment more then one walrus is involved you are forced to babysit them.

Its one thing to lose units because your strategy failed....but another having a rage quit out of this game because those walruses are just bad.

I dont say they need to be perfect, i dont mind if something like these can happen because of terrain. But all those point happend on a freaking normal road.

This is not fun anymore. The game is good but because it is heavly focused on ground combat then it would be nice to have them a decent AI. Even the enemy Walruses are just driving a cliff off or against tree being sitting ducks.

[Raptor 10]

I dont say they need to be perfect, i dont mind if something like these can happen because of terrain. But all those point happend on a freaking normal road.

This is not fun anymore. The game is good but because it is heavly focused on ground combat then it would be nice to have them a decent AI. Even the enemy Walruses are just driving a cliff off or against tree being sitting ducks.

Did you try the 1.02 Patch?

http://www.carriercommand.com/updates/

To be honest, the communication of BIS in this situation leaves much to be desired.

Where is the link on the frontpage? Where is the announcement on Facebook/twitter?

But maybe its the game in the game to find the update by oneself.

[krycek 349]

Hah deja vu,looking at the history of BI I wouldn't count to even make them drive "ok-ish".My number 1 reason why I'll wait to put cash on CC(or any of their future products for that matter).Game looks great but this isn't a small problem,this is a huge ass problem especially when BI games are focused on ground warfare.You guys are upset because AI is too stupid to drive 4 walruses,now multiply that with armoured or vehicle columns in A2 and let's see who ragequits faster.:p

Can't wait for the inevitable A3 threads "AI driving is terrible".

Or in the words of a famous BI dev "Dogs bark but the caravan goes on".

[Tontow 1]

Or in the words of a famous BI dev "Dogs bark but the caravan goes on".

You forgot the rest of it, " right over a cliff! "

[AlFitz 0]

The walruses need to be more spry and have a spot rotate facility to help the AI navigate. Sad to say that I even have trouble driving them and I'm brilliant at everything! :cool:

[Savant1974 1]

I'll add my voice to this; the walrus AI is atrocious. It forces me to drive the damn things personally and leave the awesome super fun manta flying to the AI, and frankly the piloting isn't all that great either. I'm guessing you guys were forced to release the game a little early, it could clearly have used a bit more work on the AI.

Also, the client crashes every hour or so, which is bloody annoying. Not good enough, chaps.

[Dreadnought808 1]

I must also add my voice to this.

Been playing the steam version since yesterday, and the walrus pathfinding is horrible. It is bad enough to actually put down the game.

Things that need to be implemented:

-Walrus waypoint markers need a much bigger radius.

-inaccessible terrain mask needs to be increased in size. This'll greatly help in keeping them away from things they can get stuck on. This will probably stop them from squeezing through small gaps, but I'd rather have that than have them get stuck on them. (There IS an inaccessible terrain mask, right? It's so bad I'd even doubt that)

Things that will greatly help:

-allow Walrus rotate-on-point.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Dreadnought808

[zopzodeman 2]

Hi , i also been playing this game for a while...and i must say the ai is the dumbest i ever seen in a game...not able to engage the enemy at range while moving , but when i order a attack it can engage at the double range? pathfindig is horrible , even Command and Conquer 1 did this better! There are so much issues with the ai i dont know where to start...

WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING SINCE BETA 2???

I sse absolutely no progress being made since then...