Is Arma 3 going to feel desolate?

[dissaifer 10]

Let me start by saying I've grown to love the Arma series. It has it's flaws but BIS is continually trying to fix them and that is just great! So, a thank you to the constant work and improvements.

Now, on to the subject. Arma 2 felt desolate. What I mean to say is, even if you throw the Civs and the Cars into the game, it still felt like... well abandoned. And it always has, the upkeep of the buildings the lack of care to most objects (by that, I mean by the "inhabitants" in game). It made it feel as the area had already been abandoned for a long time.

I actually believe this is what helped Day-Z go along as a believable scenario and it's success. Chernarus as a map felt like humans haven't lived there in a long time. I feel this is due to the art of the buildings. Now, don't misunderstand, the art of the buildings is very detailed in Arma 2, but it is detailed to the point that people have left the area for at least 2~5 years ... or that people are either so poor or so lazy they won't fix it. Maybe that is the point, but I'm trying to get at the story of Arma 3.

If the building art is going to be, unkempt, is it Greece never recovered from the recession and people started leaving? If so, why are people there, and why are people fighting for Liminos?

I want to preface this with, I went to Bosnia in 2007, and this is 7 years, roughly, after the war and it was pretty war-torn looking (so that was after). And now, it looks new again, because people lived there (so, much after). Anyway, just a thought.

[2nd ranger 282]

Well we haven't seen alot of Limnos yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was like that. Yeah, Chernarus did look abandoned with all the high grass in settlements and broken windows and such. I guess this is partly because it's easier to make huge maps if the buildings are abandoned and you don't have to fill them with furniture and things to make it look like someone lives there. And, of course, there is a limit to how much you can populate an area with ambient life before it starts to impact performance.

See the screenshots in this post: Pretty much like Chernarus.

Edited September 15, 2012 by 2nd Ranger

[.Taffy 10]

If the building art is going to be, unkempt, is it Greece never recovered from the recession and people started leaving? If so, why are people there, and why are people fighting for Liminos?

As far as I can tell from the backstory so far, Greece never did recover from recession and may even have slipped into some sort of depression. Relations with the EU (or what's left of it) remain permenantly poor. There has been fighting on Limnos as the Iranian invasion was resisted, and conflict is ongoing with sporadic resistance. Though people live on the island they are under an Iranian occupation and cut of from mainland support so any help for reconstruction that could have been sent is impossible. The reason they fight for Linos? Well that apparently is the secret around which the whole campaign is based!

[NeuroFunker 11]

well, i believe, why Chernarus felt abandoned, is because it's very detailed and realistic, but making it "liveable" would cost lots of performance. cars driving around (city traffic), lots of people walking around, planes flying in the sky, starting/landing at airports, choppers, city noise etc. If it would be filled at least half the way we see in GTA4 for example, it would look like this country is populated. I don't think it will be different in arma 3, or it would be unplayable.

Actually if you ever played on a full Chernarus Life server, you would believe, this place is not abandoned.

Edited September 15, 2012 by NeuroFunker

[purepassion 22]

Hey Dissaifer :)

In fact, there are multiple stages of "inhabitation" modeled. Buildings can be under construction, still in use, be abandoned and actually have things like dust on the furniture or be abandoned for a long time and partially destroyed.

The whole spectrum is available :)

By the way, the photos are from a big collection I made with pictures from Limnos, Stratis and similar places. It's nice to get a feel for how it looks like there. So if you want, take a look around

[Beagle 684]

Let me start by saying I've grown to love the Arma series. It has it's flaws but BIS is continually trying to fix them and that is just great! So, a thank you to the constant work and improvements.

Now, on to the subject. Arma 2 felt desolate. What I mean to say is, even if you throw the Civs and the Cars into the game, it still felt like... well abandoned. And it always has, the upkeep of the buildings the lack of care to most objects (by that, I mean by the "inhabitants" in game). It made it feel as the area had already been abandoned for a long time.

I actually believe this is what helped Day-Z go along as a believable scenario and it's success. Chernarus as a map felt like humans haven't lived there in a long time. I feel this is due to the art of the buildings. Now, don't misunderstand, the art of the buildings is very detailed in Arma 2, but it is detailed to the point that people have left the area for at least 2~5 years ... or that people are either so poor or so lazy they won't fix it. Maybe that is the point, but I'm trying to get at the story of Arma 3.

If the building art is going to be, unkempt, is it Greece never recovered from the recession and people started leaving? If so, why are people there, and why are people fighting for Liminos?

I want to preface this with, I went to Bosnia in 2007, and this is 7 years, roughly, after the war and it was pretty war-torn looking (so that was after). And now, it looks new again, because people lived there (so, much after). Anyway, just a thought.

The look and feel of ArmA II was spot on for the region it displayed...and since I just went there a week ago I can tell you it is still spot on....in reality the villages look even poorer than in game and I barely saw any people outside....but what I saw was a old Praga truck, a Ural in olive drab and a few old skodas...ArmA II was absolutely right...you won't belive it until you actually visit the Ústecký kraj yourself...I don't see where yout critics fit in here.

[maturin 12]

Chernarus doesn't look especially desolate; it looks like any rural European region. The buildings are in good repair more often than not. Is the OP from a shiny duplex in lower Manhattan?

[dissaifer 10]

Passion, thanks for the links to the pics, but in there you'll see building that do look lived in like this :Lived in and this chruch

I'm just hoping the entire island doesn't look like it is in disrepair.

Beagle, those are dead on and I believe you, but doesn't the whole place look like that? If so, then words eaten.

---------- Post added at 20:25 ---------- Previous post was at 20:08 ----------

Is the OP from a shiny duplex in lower Manhattan? The quick answer to that is no.

There are things that make areas feel alive, animals, bugs, noises and movement from both, lights on in houses in the evening, random talking at a distance - Buildings that are taken care of and painted is one. Quick test, load up Arma 2 with Zarag at night, put the Civ mod down - it is still eerily quite. No lights in houses, no random noises in the distance, only street lights - it verges on creepy.

[paecmaker 23]

Well in the Limnos background story they say that large parts of the population has fled and that many places are abandoned. And the constant occupation makes it hard to do any real repairs to damaged buildings.

I hope that in the more populated places there will be nicer buildings. Several of the screenshots show some pretty nice buildings also.

[Shagulon 1]

Most war zones tend to empity pretty quickly. People may still be there but they hide cos, u know, itis dangerous.

[metalcraze 290]

On the contrary - BIS games don't look desolate enough. It's a war zone and yet it's like nothing ever happened there.

Should have more destroyed structures/stuff to add to the atmosphere of war.

[onlyrazor 11]

On the contrary - BIS games don't look desolate enough. It's a war zone and yet it's like nothing ever happened there.

Should have more destroyed structures/stuff to add to the atmosphere of war.

I concur. The skies are too clear. Some massive smoke plumes from surrounding fires would be awesome, but right now that's just wishful thinking.

[chortles 263]

"Added desolation" is probably going to be an "up to the mission maker" thing... so long as the elements are available to add them in the Editor, I think you'll be okay. :D

[maturin 12]

Some soundscape modules would be nice, come to think of it.

[b00ce 160]

On the contrary - BIS games don't look desolate enough. It's a war zone and yet it's like nothing ever happened there.

Should have more destroyed structures/stuff to add to the atmosphere of war.

I concur. The skies are too clear. Some massive smoke plumes from surrounding fires would be awesome, but right now that's just wishful thinking.

That would kind of limit the scenarios, don't you think? I like knowing that the destruction/smoke is from things that have actually happened while I was playing, not faked like a corridor shooter.

If you always had the destroyed buildings and smoke everywhere, you wouldn't be able to play those where-ever life role play things or have a mission where the crap hasn't hit the proverbial fan yet.

[onlyrazor 11]

That would kind of limit the scenarios, don't you think? I like knowing that the destruction/smoke is from things that have actually happened while I was playing, not faked like a corridor shooter.

If you always had the destroyed buildings and smoke everywhere, you wouldn't be able to play those where-ever life role play things or have a mission where the crap hasn't hit the proverbial fan yet.

Well, PMC's campaign had BIS_fnc_destroyCity. That's kinda what I was aiming for when I posted that. Lemnos itself should be unaltered.

[BuddLight 1]

I think it has something to do with the soviet terrain and buildings in general. Believe me I've been born there and live there till i was 10 so I pretty much know how it looks like there. And Arma 2 comes pretty close even if some buildings look european. Maybe the town were like just some builings placed in one area, it felt more like a village more empty, well I guess Arma 3 is fixed more on a real terrain and real buildings so it will look like people really live there. Anyways I'm really looking forward to Arma 3 played it on gamescom

[b00ce 160]

Well, PMC's campaign had BIS_fnc_destroyCity. That's kinda what I was aiming for when I posted that. Lemnos itself should be unaltered.

BIS said that no feature in ArmA 2/OA will be removed, so it will still be there in ArmA 3. ;)

[chortles 263]

Lemnos itself should be unaltered.

Pretty much, if only because this way you can create "ARMA 3 prequel" missions telling the story of the initial fighting that caused the desolation. ;)

[ruhtraeel 1]

Well we haven't seen alot of Limnos yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was like that. Yeah, Chernarus did look abandoned with all the high grass in settlements and broken windows and such. I guess this is partly because it's easier to make huge maps if the buildings are abandoned and you don't have to fill them with furniture and things to make it look like someone lives there. And, of course, there is a limit to how much you can populate an area with ambient life before it starts to impact performance.

See the screenshots in this post: Pretty much like Chernarus.

IMO ARMA 3's towns and stuff should be very dense, but should feel abandoned, and not empty. ARMA 2's towns felt a bit dull, like nobody ever lived there in the first place. I think if ARMA 3 can have lots of buildings and architectural features, but can retain the feeling of feeling abandoned by a once more prosperous population, it will be spot on.

[chortles 263]

ruhtraeel, take care to be that the default maps are a sandbox/tabula rasa, to be filled in by mission makers; if the tools are there so that a mission maker can "set the scene" (i.e. with props in the Editor) to make it look abandoned, I think that that's a better idea than arbitrarily trying to set the default.

"Dense but abandoned seeming" isn't a bad ideal though.

[Beagle 684]

Since BIS uses real world data for the maps the reason why ArmA II felt so desolate is simpy because the real region they usd is the same on my trip from povrly to chuderov I saw exacly FIVE other cars on the road...a bus, a truck and three Skodas.

here is some video proof directly fom Lipova(Stary Sobor) from 9-6-2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsANhCVqG94&feature=g-upl

Since Lemnos is less desolate then Usti area it won't for sure not look desolate in ArmA III.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Beagle

[dmarkwick 261]

I should say that any feeling of desolation will be a mission design thing.

[mrcash2009 0]

I agree with DM, all islands are desolate with poor missions made on them.

On a more immersive note Arma1 always felt desolate because of audio, IE not so much background noise, not enough small out door noises and such, even that tweaked with some church bell sounds, distant ambient animals & q's can really add to the feel of an island before you bump into anyone on it.

You also have ambient civilian modules and all houses are open (at cost of CPU) so its not long before you can busy up an island. I dont understand the look of an island point, I mean if you went to Afghanistan and looked and the self build houses and no one was around, how "lived" does it really look stood in it with no one their either? The most desolate looking places you can have.

[WingmanSR 10]

The look and feel of ArmA II was spot on for the region it displayed...and since I just went there a week ago I can tell you it is still spot on....in reality the villages look even poorer than in game and I barely saw any people outside....but what I saw was a old Praga truck, a Ural in olive drab and a few old skodas...ArmA II was absolutely right...you won't belive it until you actually visit the Ústecký kraj yourself...I don't see where yout critics fit in here.

http://imageshack.us/a/img820/5572/sam0627zx.th.jpg

Is Dslyecxi behind one of those bushes? Did he pop out and shoot you in the face right after this picture was taken? THAT would be authentic! =P