More realistic/depressing feeling

[NoRailgunner 0]

@G4meM0ment imo such sfx are better left as an option for game / server setting and mission design. So everyone can simply choose how he want to play and what kind of extra sfx he needs on his screen. Getting hit or killed in A3 from a bullet in suppressive fire should be the most effective or deadly feeling anyway. Other things are up to one's individual handling of such situations and trained skills. No need to generalise things which are different from person to person. Let the A3 player test + decide what he likes and how he prefers to play. :)

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

It is a trait of an intelligent mind to be able to entertain thoughts, concepts and illusions - the best ground for this is a realistic, yet unsaturated environment, and I regard ArmA in exactly such light. The immersion follows, as things click into place, when you associate yourself and your real life experiences with elements that you're presented in-game, and you don't need artificial over-bloom, HDR and other graphical filters to tell you that.

There is a time and place for that, though - ArmA II Eagle Wing campaign being a very notable exception,

DJlEjDind9U

The atmosphere is surreal and well, you could argue that this is a global, mission-specific filter and doesn't alter the game in a way you'd want to, but it is precisely what is required of ArmA - to be an unsaturated, realistic simulator(-game).

The most beautiful photographs are often taken with low saturation and reduced sharpness to make use of the editing software later on for desired effect, and this is what mods do for ArmA. If the cracking sound of a super-sonic bullet passing over your head isn't enough of an indicator of the danger you're in, perhaps this game is not for you.

[metalcraze 290]

@G4meM0ment imo such sfx are better left as an option for game / server setting and mission design. So everyone can simply choose how he want to play and what kind of extra sfx he needs on his screen. Getting hit or killed in A3 from a bullet in suppressive fire should be the most effective or deadly feeling anyway. Other things are up to one's individual handling of such situations and trained skills. No need to generalise things which are different from person to person. Let the A3 player test + decide what he likes and how he prefers to play. :)

If it's to be an option it should affect both AI and a player. No suppression? No suppression for both AI and the player then. Suppression? Suppression for both AI and the player then.

No other option.

Because the moment you give a player such an advantage over AI (AI already hits targets considerably worse than an experienced ArmA player - AI exclusive suppression making AIs even worse shots then will make the game utterly player-centric) - the game gets broken. And you may also find yourself among too many servers nerfing AI like that.

Clan servers running coop sessions already put twice or thrice more AI enemies against advancing human squads because of the issue mentioned above when in reality it should be the other way around (numerical advantage on the attacking side for the guaranteed victory)

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Well if there will be no suppression effects for the player then it will be fair that AI won't suffer any suppression effects as well. Agreed?

Where's the logic in that? Players are already suppressed by not being able to do certain things when there's 850 rounds per minute flying in their general direction, if that's your definition of suppression.

I don't think BIS can help with competitive AI development here, better talk to IBM or Intel. ;)

[froggyluv 2130]

. If the cracking sound of a super-sonic bullet passing over your head isn't enough of an indicator of the danger you're in, perhaps this game is not for you.

Oh come off it man :j:

Really one could make this argument for any effect - "increased weapon sway under fire is bullsh*t as your mouse hand should be shaking in real life due to the stress of being under fire!!"

So all ACE players are not suited for this game? Blackouts from airspeed (a little overdone imo) or increased pounding heartrate from fatigue are all for less intelligent gamers? Get real.

I can understand why some people would choose to turn off a suppression effect and like said, hopefully it is an option but lets not be arrogant and try to claim that all immersion effects should be in one's mind. Personally, I enjoy the suppression effect of TPWC's awesome mod but that doesn't mean I didn't fear or "feel" threatened in the game without it. Suppresion sway is essential to me as every game I have ever played in MP -a person under fire will pop out and make what would be considered a World Class Headshot -only possible beacuse they don't really care if caught the same way they would in RL. So add a simulated repercussion -not a big deal and for many also adds immersion.

[h - 169]

The atmosphere is surreal and well, you could argue that this is a global, mission-specific filter and doesn't alter the game in a way you'd want to, but it is precisely what is required of ArmA - to be an unsaturated, realistic simulator(-game).

Oh, you mean the "realistic brown".. :rolleyes:

How exactly would unsatrurated/"realistic brown" be in any way realistic? When I fire weapons colors from my world do not disappear.. :confused:

[metalcraze 290]

Where's the logic in that? Players are already suppressed by not being able to do certain things when there's 850 rounds per minute flying in their general direction, if that's your definition of suppression.

I don't know bro. When I'm under fire from AI I can still shoot them like nothing is happening unless they hit me (which at 300m+ distances doesn't happen often)

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Oh, you mean the "realistic brown".. :rolleyes:

How exactly would unsatrurated/"realistic brown" be in any way realistic? When I fire weapons colors from my world do not disappear.. :confused:

Saturation is used relatively here, I'm implying the mis-use of bloom, unrealistic colours for particles, character effects and generally elements that are not present in real life. An overcast day in ArmA II looks like... an overcast day in real life, same goes for moon-less nights - other games vastly over-saturate/over-contrast things, but they often aren't claiming 'realism' as the pillar upon which their titles stand.

Artificiality will eventually become a bore and you will not pay attention to these effects, what's even more, they will break immersion, because you can't describe the gravity of the moment when that bullet cracks past you and hits something in front.

P.S. Now back-blast from anti-tank launchers and RPGs is an exception to the above - it isn't a gimmick in real life and so wouldn't be in ArmA II. This is a real threat as shown in ACE2.

[froggyluv 2130]

I don't know bro. When I'm under fire from AI I can still shoot them like nothing is happening unless they hit me (which at 300m+ distances doesn't happen often)

Well then clearly your not using enuff imagination - think about your virtual Wife and Dog waiting for you back in Cherno -you'll care.

:rolleyes:

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

I don't know bro. When I'm under fire from AI I can still shoot them like nothing is happening unless they hit me (which at 300m+ distances doesn't happen often)

Then perhaps they should address their rate of fire, that we can agree on: all too often they under-utilise their weaponry when given the chance, i.e. in cover, prone and sporting a machine gun.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Let's say first I love realistic shooters. I've played ArmA and a little bit of ArmA II (Operation Arrowhead) and also Operation Flashpoint Dragon Rising.

I found the error. Can i get a cookie ?

Seriously, i'm fine with the suppressing effect that we have now, but what makes me feel "realism" (in SP) in those games is when the missions are designed in order to be played with only one savegame available, as in OFP (without cheat). The ability to have multiple savegames literally kills the immersion and takes away the fear factor, but most of the missions can hardly be played without.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

I found the error. Can i get a cookie ?

Yep. I wanted to do that, but decided to play along. :)

---------- Post added at 17:45 ---------- Previous post was at 17:44 ----------

Oh come off it man :j:

Really one could make this argument for any effect - "increased weapon sway under fire is bullsh*t as your mouse hand should be shaking in real life due to the stress of being under fire!!"

So all ACE players are not suited for this game? Blackouts from airspeed (a little overdone imo) or increased pounding heartrate from fatigue are all for less intelligent gamers? Get real.

Given the chance, I'd integrate ACE2 into ArmA in the next patch. ACE doesn't bring anything artificial, which can't be found in real life: back-blasts from AT hurt, g-force blackouts do happen, fatigue is a real issue when dealing with long marches and 45 kg of kit. :)

[h - 169]

P.S. Now back-blast from anti-tank launchers and RPGs is an exception to the above

That would be a nice effect to have, although I'm not sure how exactly that would work with the AI since they don't even care if they run accross someone's line of fire.

They probably would cause way too much damage to their own team if that effect was in. :p

Never used ACE so I have no idea how this works in it though..

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

That would be a nice effect to have, although I'm not sure how exactly that would work with the AI since they don't even care if they run accross someone's line of fire.

They probably would cause way too much damage to their own team if that effect was in. :p

Never used ACE so I have no idea how this works in it though..

You get the same effects as if you were standing outside a grenade's killing field, plus ringing in the ears (if you're not wearing earplugs), shrapnel damage and it often knocks you down.

[froggyluv 2130]

Given the chance, I'd integrate ACE2 into ArmA in the next patch. ACE doesn't bring anything artificial, which can't be found in real life: back-blasts from AT hurt, g-force blackouts do happen, fatigue is a real issue when dealing with long marches and 45 kg of kit. :)

How about the forced falling down when fatigued? I make my Strength guys at my camp run an hour up some of the most rugged terrain here in Colorado with weight vest/or plates and they never drop like that. The point is, visual/nervous system impairment can and does happen when under direct fire and should be calibrated to the skill/ combat experience of the target. Personally I like the challenge and still hear the sonic cracks and see leaves falling and tree chips flying all around me -it's great immersion and makes it harder in a way I like. You may not but don't try to paint people who like this type of immersion as 'less-intelligent'. If your type are smarter -well then I guess we're just tougher :p

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

How about the forced falling down when fatigued? I make my Strength guys at my camp run an hour up some of the most rugged terrain here in Colorado with weight vest/or plates and they never drop like that. The point is, visual/nervous system impairment can and does happen when under direct fire and should be calibrated to the skill/ combat experience of the target. Personally I like the challenge and still hear the sonic cracks and see leaves falling and tree chips flying all around me -it's great immersion and makes it harder in a way I like. You may not but don't try to paint people who like this type of immersion as 'less-intelligent'. If your type are smarter -well then I guess we're just tougher :p

I've played the titles OP is referring to and I do not want to see pulsating screens every time a bullet goes past me, or blood splatter in bucket-loads, unless I'm wearing glasses. There's no way to simulate that without turning everyone into hallucinating schizophrenics.

What we have in ArmA and ACE 2 is enough, fatigue could use some tweaking tho last time I played, which was many moons ago. Also, as seen on GCs videos, ArmA III underwater wounds get amplified by being... underwater - I think this effect has its place underwater. :)

[maturin 12]

How about the forced falling down when fatigued? I make my Strength guys at my camp run an hour up some of the most rugged terrain here in Colorado with weight vest/or plates and they never drop like that. p

AFAIK The only reason ACE makes fatigued soldiers fall down is because they can't force them to walk with the scripting tools available to them. In ArmA 3, BI will simply make you too fatigued to move fast.

[G4meM0ment 1]

I found the error. Can i get a cookie ?

Seriously, i'm fine with the suppressing effect that we have now, but what makes me feel "realism" (in SP) in those games is when the missions are designed in order to be played with only one savegame available, as in OFP (without cheat). The ability to have multiple savegames literally kills the immersion and takes away the fear factor, but most of the missions can hardly be played without.

And whats the error now? :confused:

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

And whats the error now? :confused:

This is Operation Flashpoint,

lazBEOE0FI8

Dragoon racing is a hi-jack of the title and should not be mentioned here. It may be a relatively "realistic shooter" for consoles, but it isn't comparable to ArmA/OFP.

[froggyluv 2130]

I've played the titles OP is referring to and I do not want to see pulsating screens every time a bullet goes past me, or blood splatter in bucket-loads, unless I'm wearing glasses. There's no way to simulate that without turning everyone into hallucinating schizophrenics.

Hehe, then you really would have hated the SLX in which he forced dropped you when under fire (which also wasn't well calibrated) -talk about wonky frustration! Have your tried TPWC? Dont like it? I get a special satisfying thrill when Im able to focus thru my muddled vision and shoot/kill the suppressor! Besides, it really doesn't last very long. As far as bloody muck on the screens...meh, I prefer a brief sharp pulsing red coupled with an "Ooof!" to know I've been hit. Of course, varying degrees of "Ooof!" should correspond to area you were shot and such.

[maturin 12]

I've played the titles OP is referring to and I do not want to see pulsating screens every time a bullet goes past me

The appropriate suppression mechanic for flying bullets would be to make your hands jerk slightly every time you hear a sonic crack that is within a meter or two. Just a momentary, auto-correcting twitch that will prevent you from calmly line up a shot, but not seriously impair your abilities. That, and the current suppression effects are fine. They just need to be extended better to AI.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

The appropriate suppression mechanic for flying bullets would be to make your hands jerk slightly every time you hear a sonic crack that is within a meter or two.

Isn't that already the case? Or does it apply only to bullets, which land in your proximity? For everyone else,

OTDDwKQncEY

Observe the serenity of the whole setting, if it wasn't for an enemy squad or two, you'd be there on the beach in your underpants. :) The cherry-coloured jello effect when you're hit does somewhat break immersion, my suggestion would be: if BIS absolutely want to have it, remove/tone down the red and leave only a pulsating effect, which is triggered upon being wounded.

[G4meM0ment 1]

This is Operation Flashpoint,

lazBEOE0FI8

Dragoon racing is a hi-jack of the title and should not be mentioned here. It may be a relatively "realistic shooter" for consoles, but it isn't comparable to ArmA/OFP.

... why I shouldn't mention this games here? I just used it to give an example for good supression effects (in my opinion). I love that game because its realistic (nearly) and got a lot of atmosphere.

[onlyrazor 11]

... why I shouldn't mention this games here? I just used it to give an example for good supression effects (in my opinion). I love that game because its realistic (nearly) and got a lot of atmosphere.

Because FP DR spelled together gives you this: FPDR

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

I love that game because its realistic (nearly) and got a lot of atmosphere.

Could you provide some examples? After all, seeing is believing. :)