ARMA 2: OA beta build 94364 (1.60 MP compatible build, post 1.60 release)

[OMAC 254]

I am not sure what you mean by "standard/old fashioned" method. Please explain. To me, the old way was using only the wasd keys for driving. All I'm doing is using W and S keys for forward/backward, and steering with mouse, as I have done since the new driving was introduced. I haven't changed any of the control key bindings. If you move your mouse forward, does your look direction move upwards? The only way I can change look direction now is to use left Alt. Since I am the only one who has mentioned the current lack of Y axis change with mouse, I am confused as to what is going on.

[sprayer_faust 0]

The best way to drive with a mouse is still to switch to 3rd person, double-tap alt so you can look around freely and drive using wasd.

[Guess Who 10]

If I remember correctly: old style driving since OFP/Arma I was vehicle controls -> (wasd as usual) plus mouse left - drive left (=A) and mouse left - drive right (=D). Introduced in ArmA II, somewhere in the middle between the patches, was the additional key combo you are used to: drive more right/drive more left. The new "freelook UP/DOWN" feature was introduced after the new steering method with that caret thingy with the automatic "look into the turn!" feature for both steering methods, which I think is wrong. Maybe BIS could have left that old style alone and introduced the changes only to the new style. I would not have complained cause that would have been kinda optional.

I didn't try beta 94444 yet but up to 94364 my view would go up/down when moving the mouse; and since I use a 5600 dpi mouse it's obvious what is happening: I tend to look everywhere but the road. That's annoying as hell ... :) You should try someday.

---------- Post added at 04:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:37 PM ----------

The best way to drive with a mouse is still to switch to 3rd person, double-tap alt so you can look around freely and drive using wasd.

Nope, that's what you think is the best way of driving. I dont't use third person at all, so no option for me. I was pretty happy with the way it was since ArmA. And that is my opinion.

[OMAC 254]

All right, I'm clued in now. I've been playing on Expert. On Veteran and lower, there is still Y axis look movement when mouse driving (using 94444).

Edited July 4, 2012 by OMAC

[Maystor 10]

I'm still kinda confused. Driving with a mouse has never been closer to OFP than it is now. In ARMA1 it was changed drastically, because of the controls left over from OFP elite, the Xbox version of the game. They tried fixing it with by adding the "more right/left" but it was pretty much unusable because it was hard to drive in a straight line. In ARMA 2 it was much easier to center the steering wheel and driving with a mouse was fine as long as you could see where the actual steering wheel is pointing. Of course, it depends what one is used to but really, driving say a motorcycle with a mouse was the most awkward thing ever before these latest betas. The new system changes things by centering the wheel when the vehicle has turned in the direction the cursor is pointing to. It took me a while to realize what people thought when talking about a "look into the turn" feature because with the new system you rarely ever need to move the cursor so close to the edge of the screen to activate horizontal freelook. I fully agree Y axis movement is way too sensitive though.

So, by "the old way", we're referring to drive right/drive left, basically the mouse doing the same thing as 'A' and 'D' keys, right? I just tried assigning the controls that way and the up/down freelook is there but not the left/right one? In which case we pretty much all agree that Y axis movement should be toned down and/or optionally disabled.

[OMAC 254]

So, by "the old way", we're referring to drive right/drive left, basically the mouse doing the same thing as 'A' and 'D' keys, right? I just tried assigning the controls that way and the up/down freelook is there but not the left/right one? In which case we pretty much all agree that Y axis movement should be toned down and/or optionally disabled.

As far as I can tell, yes, you are correct on all counts.

Many, many betas ago, a moderator, I forget who, suggested that the Y axis mvmt be toned down by not having the view change in the Y direction unless the mouse cursor reaches the top or bottom edges of the screen, as opposed to the more confined area which is used now. This sounded like an excellent idea. I'll try and find his post.

[Guess Who 10]

I'm still kinda confused. Driving with a mouse has never been closer to OFP than it is now. In ARMA1 it was changed drastically, because of the controls left over from OFP elite, the Xbox version of the game. They tried fixing it with by adding the "more right/left" but it was pretty much unusable because it was hard to drive in a straight line. In ARMA 2 it was much easier to center the steering wheel and driving with a mouse was fine as long as you could see where the actual steering wheel is pointing. Of course, it depends what one is used to but really, driving say a motorcycle with a mouse was the most awkward thing ever before these latest betas. The new system changes things by centering the wheel when the vehicle has turned in the direction the cursor is pointing to. It took me a while to realize what people thought when talking about a "look into the turn" feature because with the new system you rarely ever need to move the cursor so close to the edge of the screen to activate horizontal freelook. I fully agree Y axis movement is way too sensitive though.

So, by "the old way", we're referring to drive right/drive left, basically the mouse doing the same thing as 'A' and 'D' keys, right? I just tried assigning the controls that way and the up/down freelook is there but not the left/right one? In which case we pretty much all agree that Y axis movement should be toned down and/or optionally disabled.

Yes, I guess you are right in all accounts. I'm getting old and memory is failing already ... :)

The thing that bugs me the most thou is that damn awfull dead zone you have in the y-axis in the old style driving and in both directions in the new way. There is no visual feedback, that's why it fails so hard. If the dead zone would be eliminated it would'nt be that hard. In ArmA I dont't drive to work but mostly under combat conditions. There is no time to focus on not moving your mouse in the y-axis.

[Guess Who 10]

So, that damn vertikal movement in vehicles didn't let me rest ... I played around a lot but what pushed me in the right direction was OMAC's comment here:

All right, I'm clued in now. I've been playing on Expert. On Veteran and lower, there is still Y axis look movement when mouse driving (using 94444).

Actually it is not bound to the difficulty but to the crosshair option. Disable the crosshair in veteran for instance and the vertikal freelook is gone. I thought I let you guys know.

[Undeceived 392]

I'm sorry for throwing in an issue that's not directly involved with the actual beta patch testing.

BIS, can you please please finally make the combat behaviour of the AI overrideable? :notworthy:

When you have AI under your command and they are in combat behaviour and you need to get the hell out of the place you are in that moment - it's just a PITA with the AI, which doesn't move, does lay down hundreds of times and in the end your squad is scattered over the whole region (and get killed by enemy reinforcements) because they're just stuck in the combat mode and are way too slow.

I know that this issue was adressed once in one of the patches and it seemed to get a little better. But I have to say that it still is bad enough to ruin the playing experiences when you get in such situations.

Best would be to have an option to override the combat behaviour with the aware behaviour (just like it was back in the days in OFP). The system itself like it is now is great (with the AI getting into combat automatically when in danger), but in some situations - like the one I'm describing here - an option to override it really is badly needeed...

Related tickets that proposes a solution for this: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/12895

Edited July 7, 2012 by Undeceived

[OMAC 254]

Interesting, Guess Who. Could an option be added to Veteran and lower to disable vertical mouse freelook while driving, as it is on Expert? Then the default Veteran settings could be maintained (including crosshair) for those who want it. Using only L Alt for vertical freelook while driving, as it is now on Expert, feels intuitive and natural, and will work well for TrackIR people, I think.

[Maystor 10]

Hmm, just tried it on Expert difficulty. Not having a cursor kind of defeats the point of the new driving system and is just as awkward to use as before. In my opinion the best way to do it would be to, regardless of the crosshair setting, completely disable horizontal freelook in vehicles when steering, it's not needed. Vertical freelook could be disabled too, but having it optional would be even better. Because sometimes I do want to adjust my view up and down just a little, depending on the vehicle. Just do something about the sensitivity please ;)

[OMAC 254]

Maystor, keep in mind that there is an issue (https://dev-heaven.net/issues/35558) with driving-guide carets/chevrons not being present in some vehicles on Expert. For example, the BMP-2 and most other armored vehicles have the caret, but HMMWVs, LAV-25, bicycles, motorcycles, and civilian cars and trucks have no caret. But caret or not, there is no vertical freelook with mouse. Notice lack of caret here:

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[Maystor 10]

Oh I see. I only tried civilian vehicles and assumed the caret is always invisible. Voted.

[gatordev 215]

I'm sorry for throwing in an issue that's not directly involved with the actual beta patch testing.

BIS, can you please please finally make the combat behaviour of the AI overrideable? :notworthy:

When you have AI under your command and they are in combat behaviour and you need to get the hell out of the place you are in that moment - it's just a PITA with the AI, which doesn't move, does lay down hundreds of times and in the end your squad is scattered over the whole region (and get killed by enemy reinforcements) because they're just stuck in the combat mode and are way too slow.

I know that this issue was adressed once in one of the patches and it seemed to get a little better. But I have to say that it still is bad enough to ruin the playing experiences when you get in such situations.

Best would be to have an option to override the combat behaviour with the aware behaviour (just like it was back in the days in OFP). The system itself like it is now is great (with the AI getting into combat automatically when in danger), but in some situations - like the one I'm describing here - an option to override it really is badly needeed...

Related tickets that proposes a solution for this: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/12895

While not the exact solution you're looking for, if you put them in a different formation (I can't remember the name...Delta maybe, but it's "8-9"), they'll move with you. I think it also works for compact column, but I haven't tried that one.

[Undeceived 392]

While not the exact solution you're looking for, if you put them in a different formation (I can't remember the name...Delta maybe, but it's "8-9"), they'll move with you. I think it also works for compact column, but I haven't tried that one.

I tested what you said but it doesn't help. When the AI is in combat behaviour, it still remains a pain in the ass to get away from the current position! This somehow has to get overrideable... Please, BIS, hear us!

[Tonci87 163]

I tested what you said but it doesn't help. When the AI is in combat behaviour, it still remains a pain in the ass to get away from the current position! This somehow has to get overrideable... Please, BIS, hear us!

Simple trick: Give them a waypoint, that will make them advance with more speed

[Undeceived 392]

Simple trick: Give them a waypoint, that will make them advance with more speed

Yes, I know about that. :) But I consider this only as a workaround, not as a fix. In many of the given situations you need the team members in formation (following you).