Too much muzzle flash and reload animations?

[DemonMustang 1]

Hello, I was just wondering if these issues have been addressed.

Watching the E3 demos, two things kind of stood out. The first is in regards to muzzle flash. They seemed pretty proud of how much the muzzle flash lights up the environment and the character in the night demo. In technical terms, I know why it's impressive. In realism terms, I have to question, do you guys think they put TOO MUCH muzzle flash? Forget the movies, their blanks are designed to give as much muzzle flash as possible because it looks cool in movies. Realistically, you don't want muzzle flash. First it obstructs your own view so it can distract you in combat, it gives away your position, and in night-time situations, it can ruin your night-vision. For this reason, they make flash hiders for just about every weapon the military uses. This is meant to limit the amount of visible flash, even at night time. Obviously the weapons with the shorter barrels will always have muzzle flash, but I am just unsure if maybe the game is putting too much muzzle flash for the weapons...

The second issue is with the reload animations. I didn't really go into counting rounds, but I do think the person playing reloaded a few times in the middle of a magazine. Meaning there should still be a round in the chamber and the bolt should still be in battery. Yet when they reload, I think I notice the character hitting a bolt stop/release after inserting the magazine. Correct me if I'm wrong about that. But also, does he engage that bolt releast on the RIGHT side of the weapon? Shouldn't the bolt release of that weapon be on the LEFT side since it's for a right-handed shooter and the hand he's using for reloading is his left?

I really need some time to sit with the game to get an in-depth look at these details, but those are the things I think I noticed in the videos. Again, please correct me if I'm mistaken. I could be seeing some things wrong. I also understand the game isn't being released yet so they still have time to fix things. I mentioned the visible reticle thing and was informed that the issue is already known, and I really would appreciate if you guys can notify me if these issues are also known. I will not take offense to it. I am looking forward to this game like you cannot believe, and I'm just trying to bring up issues that might need to be addressed. Thanks. :-)

[slatts 1978]

There are flash suppressors

And as I always say, the animations aren't finished yet, it is possible (I think in my limited java knowledge) to do empty and 1+ bullet animations, just aren't finished I guess.

[DemonMustang 1]

Yah, I was just wondering. I noticed muzzle breaks and compensators mentioned before, but those are not to hide flash but to help with recoil, so I felt what I was asking was different. I was just wondering if anyone else thought that the muzzle flash in the demo was a little excessive or if it's just me...

[slatts 1978]

Dunno, I've seen AUGs fired at night, it is a big enough flash

[antoineflemming 14]

Yah, I was just wondering. I noticed muzzle breaks and compensators mentioned before, but those are not to hide flash but to help with recoil, so I felt what I was asking was different. I was just wondering if anyone else thought that the muzzle flash in the demo was a little excessive or if it's just me...

No, it's not excessive. There actually is a flash suppressor in the game. I think it's not being used in this case. In ArmA2, I think it was assumed that all the weapons available had flash suppressors. Only reason the muzzle flash is so "excessive" is because there's no flash suppressor on the weapon. So, now, flash suppressors actually matter.

[mr burns 131]

there cannot be enough muzzle flash!!!!

[STALKERGB 6]

Being far from an expert, I'd say the muzzle flash isn't excessive.

[RoboSheriff 1]

Being far from an expert, I'd say the muzzle flash isn't excessive.

Rip people with Epileptic attacks, but yea you are right.

[Nicholas 5]

Posted this a few days ago about muzzle flashes.

Have you ever seen the muzzle flash from an AR? They are quite big as well. I believe the muzzle flash in the game is the correct size, but because of the camera positioning, it looked like it was much bigger in comparison with the player. This is because the camera was closer to the muzzle flash than the player. If he had the camera at the side, it would probably look correct.

*Video Removed*

[Steakslim 1]

Yah, I was just wondering. I noticed muzzle breaks and compensators mentioned before, but those are not to hide flash but to help with recoil, so I felt what I was asking was different. I was just wondering if anyone else thought that the muzzle flash in the demo was a little excessive or if it's just me...

In some of the early screenshots there are some weapons with flash suppressors as well, such as this image: http://www.armaholic.com/datas/users/28epu7i_4.jpg

You can see a vortex flash suppressor on the mk14. Though we have yet to see the effects of a reduced muzzle flash as BIS have been more interested in showing the muzzle flashes in their full glory (and glorious they are), but in the videos Jay and Ivan have mentioned that in the game there will be flash suppressors that will mitigate the effect and make it harder to see who's shooting at you and vice versa.

[DemonMustang 1]

No, it's not excessive. There actually is a flash suppressor in the game. I think it's not being used in this case. In ArmA2, I think it was assumed that all the weapons available had flash suppressors. Only reason the muzzle flash is so "excessive" is because there's no flash suppressor on the weapon. So, now, flash suppressors actually matter.

That makes sense. I just thought that weapon had a flash suppressor already on it.

---------- Post added at 20:28 ---------- Previous post was at 20:26 ----------

Posted this a few days ago about muzzle flashes.

That makes sense Nicholas. I guess I didn't really put into consideration the angles of the camera in relation to the character. Can definitely play a factor.

[antoineflemming 14]

That makes sense. I just thought that weapon had a flash suppressor already on it.

---------- Post added at 20:28 ---------- Previous post was at 20:26 ----------

That makes sense Nicholas. I guess I didn't really put into consideration the angles of the camera in relation to the character. Can definitely play a factor.

Yeah. It really is awesome, because now you have to take into consideration all of these factors: what attachments you have on your weapons, your gear, what items you have, how much weight you are carrying, and you really have to balance it all. This will be awesome in multiplayer. The two features I'm looking forward to the most are the animations and the customization system (uniform, gear, and weapons).

[Desert1 1]

I agree with you on the reload animations and also on the muzzle flash, as the time setting (I think) is 2035 using the latest weapons which (guns being developed now) all have inbuilt flash hiders or suppressors of some sort so yes, I also think the muzzle flash should be reduced. But in fairness I also think they may have actually toned it up to show off that there is a new and dynamic type of (tbh) really cool looking muzzle flashes.

[antoineflemming 14]

I agree with you on the reload animations and also on the muzzle flash, as the time setting (I think) is 2035 using the latest weapons which (guns being developed now) all have inbuilt flash hiders or suppressors of some sort so yes, I also think the muzzle flash should be reduced. But in fairness I also think they may have actually toned it up to show off that there is a new and dynamic type of (tbh) really cool looking muzzle flashes.

No, in this game, there aren't built in flash suppressors. You have to put a flash suppressor on your weapon.

[-=Grunt=- 10]

Yup, according to this picture, there are attach-able flash suppressors.

http://www.arma3.com/full/wp-content/gallery/blueprints/arma3_weapon_customization.jpg

[Steakslim 1]

I agree with you on the reload animations and also on the muzzle flash, as the time setting (I think) is 2035 using the latest weapons which (guns being developed now) all have inbuilt flash hiders or suppressors of some sort so yes, I also think the muzzle flash should be reduced. But in fairness I also think they may have actually toned it up to show off that there is a new and dynamic type of (tbh) really cool looking muzzle flashes.

A lot of guns being made now going into trials for infantry use aren't all that much different than guns that have been in circulation or development in the last 20 years or more, which is why you don't see them so readily getting adopted by militaries all the time, because often they are the same thing repackaged with some handy features that in the end don't create a big enough improvement to justify the cost of replacing the current armory with a whole new system of rifles. Look at the G36, ACR, HK416/417, and the SCAR series. At bottom they are just a new take on the AR-18 design with some changes here and there. Most if any of them do not really have any built in flash suppression as that would require a design of a very expensive barrel system rather than just having your normal rifled barrels to which you can add a flash suppression attachments to later on.

Cost is always a factor and it's cheaper to add a muzzle device that does the job well than designing a complex barrel that could result in accuracy troubles. Special purpose weapons however can afford to have such luxuries, but of course would have limited uses, for example, though somewhat unrelated to the actual the topic, the underwater rifle seen in the demo. I don't see much use of that particular gun once your on dry land. Today all you're seeing is old designs being repackaged in attempts to chip away the rough edges if there are any to really begin with, or just an excuse to make something mostly polymer to save weight (which isn't a bad thing really if done well), or try to force a piston design into something to claim better reliability (this has been happening a lot lately), which while the idea may work, it certainly isn't anything new. This is gonna stay true for modern firearms for a LONG time until something totally groundbreaking comes along and changes that.

[Americanel 10]

for me, there are too much flames, the standard military weapons have flash hider for broke flames and reduce individualization, i think it's better do half flames in the game, with suppressor 0 flames.

[aced170 14]

You guys should note that flash hiders and flash suppressors are somewhat different.

Flash Hiders hide the flash from you not everyone else; mainly to protect the shooter from night blindness.

Flash Suppressors hide the flash from everybody including you.

Video comparison of no muzzle device, standard a2 flash hider, and various aftermarket flash suppressors; all on AR-15 type rifles firing military ammunition.

[antoineflemming 14]

for me, there are too much flames, the standard military weapons have flash hider for broke flames and reduce individualization, i think it's better do half flames in the game, with suppressor 0 flames.

As already said, the player is responsible for attaching flash suppressors to his weapon. Oh, and there is video of the flash suppressor. Look at the end of the Gamestar video. That Mk200 has a flash suppressor or flash hider.

[Americanel 10]

You guys should note that flash hiders and flash suppressors are somewhat different.

Flash Hiders hide the flash from you not everyone else; mainly to protect the shooter from night blindness.

Flash Suppressors hide the flash from everybody including you.

i mean flash hider and flash suppressor "it's the same", they reduce the flames for blind the shooter and for reduce the individualization from enemies, makes no sense to build a weapon that part of the flame reduces the flame only to you or you and the other, there is only a flame suppressor but is called flash hider/flash suppressor is the same. And other it's a silencer/sound suppressor, that also eliminate the flames.

flash suppressor-flash hider the same: reduce the flames

muzzle brake: reduce only recoil

silencer-sound suppressor: reduce the sound and remove the flames

Edited June 10, 2012 by Americanel

[Clarkey1 10]

...Though we have yet to see the effects of a reduced muzzle flash...

I think the Stratis showcase show's the flash suppressor's effect. @0:35

I could be wrong though, might have just done more tweaking before E3.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Clarkey1

[Americanel 10]

I think the Stratis showcase show's the flash suppressor's effect. @0:35

I could be wrong though, might have just done more tweaking before E3.

yes i think it's a flash hider/flash suppressor

[DemonMustang 1]

You guys should note that flash hiders and flash suppressors are somewhat different.

Flash Hiders hide the flash from you not everyone else; mainly to protect the shooter from night blindness.

Flash Suppressors hide the flash from everybody including you.

Video comparison of no muzzle device, standard a2 flash hider, and various aftermarket flash suppressors; all on AR-15 type rifles firing military ammunition.

I think according to this video, there definitely is too much muzzle flash in the game. Even with NO muzzle device the muzzle flash is significantly less than in the game...

[antoineflemming 14]

Look here at around 9 minutes. I wonder if that Mk200 is using a flash suppressor:

AuL0brY4Ybs&hd=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuL0brY4Ybs&hd=1&t=8m58s

[aced170 14]

I think according to this video, there definitely is too much muzzle flash in the game. Even with NO muzzle device the muzzle flash is significantly less than in the game...

Keep in mind different calibers and barrel lengths affect the muzzle flash. The shorter the barrel the bigger the flash; with caliber usually the larger it is the more powder is needed to move the round, more powder more flash.

Also military ammunition is generally made to have as little of a muzzle flash as possible, while civilian ammunition usually has a larger flash, to put on a better show or something along those lines.