Will Bohemia finally improve ARMA's PVP to attract New Players?

[Laki 1]

I think all Arma 3 needs to take off in PvP is a good movement system (which looks very promising) and good enough netcode (let's hope for the best).

If they fill these 2 criteria we've got ourselves a very solid base for all kinds of community PvP missions.

+specifically multiplayer maps (or certain small areas of Lemnos) for short/middle time rounds.

Yes, it does sound COD-style, but Arma defenitly needs more frags and less space in MP as possibility.

For example, i cant afford myself to play in it 1 hour each evening but i would surely try it out if there were small matches 10-15 minutes long/ In this way people like me would play the game not only at weekends but also during other 5 days.

[Tonci87 163]

+specifically multiplayer maps (or certain small areas of Lemnos) for short/middle time rounds.

Yes, it does sound COD-style, but Arma defenitly needs more frags and less space in MP as possibility.

For example, i cant afford myself to play in it 1 hour each evening but i would surely try it out if there were small matches 10-15 minutes long/ In this way people like me would play the game not only at weekends but also during other 5 days.

Sorry but I think this would be a very bad idea. One of ARMAs strenghts, if you compare it to other shooters, is that there are no chockepoints and the maps are massive. You have a village to attack, but you may do this from the north or from the south if it pleases you

[dekster 1]

+specifically multiplayer maps (or certain small areas of Lemnos) for short/middle time rounds.

Yes, it does sound COD-style, but Arma defenitly needs more frags and less space in MP as possibility.

For example, i cant afford myself to play in it 1 hour each evening but i would surely try it out if there were small matches 10-15 minutes long/ In this way people like me would play the game not only at weekends but also during other 5 days.

You can always limit the game to a certain area on the map.

[Laki 1]

You can always limit the game to a certain area on the map.

Sure,but i was talking mostly about the general idea that large scales are good only when you have large (o`k, a lot of) time and that BI may just consider those, who cant spent a lot of time playing Domination, Project Reality and others great but long MP mods as a single big group of players and create several well-made MP game types especially for them.

[batto 17]

Sorry but I think this would be a very bad idea. One of ARMAs strenghts, if you compare it to other shooters, is that there are no chockepoints and the maps are massive. You have a village to attack, but you may do this from the north or from the south if it pleases you

The idea is to have small missions like repeated attack on village from south (kind of short CS round), CTF between 2 villages or any cool small exciting gameplay in addition to standard massive ArmA gameplay.

[R0adki11 3949]

The idea is to have small missions like repeated attack on village from south (kind of short CS round), CTF between 2 villages or any cool small exciting gameplay in addition to standard massive ArmA gameplay.

This has already been done by Arma2 leagues, where the map is restricted. FUSION squad which im part of, had members including myself which ran the old OFP ECL, EFL and Subsequent EFL Arma leagues. I can see the benifets of this kind of setup if it helps to attract more players. But as Tonci87 said the main strengths of the Arma1/Arma2 and OFP before has been the ability to choose where you fight your enemy and from where.

Edited October 24, 2012 by R0adki11
typo

[Laki 1]

But as onci87 said the main strengths of the Arma1/Arma2 and OFP before has been the ability to choose where you fight your enemy and from where.

Yes, but actually that main strength didnt attract enough players to make MP in Arma as popular as it is in less clever but more action-oriented games, did it? Dont understand me wrong, i agree that big open world in Arma is very good, because...(enormous list of advantages), but here we get the main problem imo -

big scales need a lot of people to turn them in real battlefield (not game, just field of a battle:)), not gangster wars 10*10 in Takistan, and currently we dont have enough players for doezens of servers 30*30+. And in order to have a lot of people we need to get them from somewhere. For this we need to make the game more interasting for them. As i know, most of the people in shooting games like... actually shooting - so with small missions we`ll give them plenty of fire, frags etc. So by this way we`ll get also those guys, who like shooting more than tactical thinking, but still is usefull to us because more people play Arma - the easier it will be to fill our favourite PvP servers with lare maps and epic missions, but now with more people in them. Anyway, the idea is smth like that.

[Smurf 12]

What didn't attracted a lot of players was the clumsy gameplay\movement\animations.

I had good times playing with few people in AAS scenarios in Chernogorks alone or Zarga in the main city while waiting the server to fill.

Matchbox sized maps like MW3 ones? No thanks. Rather play something else then.

[zoog 18]

The idea is to have small missions like repeated attack on village from south (kind of short CS round), CTF between 2 villages or any cool small exciting gameplay in addition to standard massive ArmA gameplay.

Yes, stuff like this can be a nice addition to what Arma already has to offer. In fact a few months back we did a PvP test on Podagorsk with an area roughly 250 x 250 meters with barbed wire around it and with buildings, trains and other stuff inside. Was already lots of fun to do this in Arma. Imagine if you add specific objectives, make the area slightly bigger (because focus is around objective but gives you room to maneuver) and you can create very fun and tactical rounds with a small group of people.

[Rusvolk 10]

Dint the DayZ mod attract a good portion of COD kids already?

[ProfTournesol 956]

Dint the DayZ mod attract a good portion of COD kids already?

And ?

[Laki 1]

Dint the DayZ mod attract a good portion of COD kids already?

Yes, but DayZ is quite differnet from native Arma, right? So there`s no garanty that people, who like it will play in Arma like a milsim game, not survivel horror. What I am talking about is that it is very hard to find people for big PvP matches because when there are only 5-10 ppl on server nobody wants to join it and because of it there`s not enough people for good play etc via circle. So if there would be interesting games first for 10 vs 10 on 200*200 meters than amount of players will rise and with these it will be possible to play already 15 vs 15 on 300*300, than 20*20 etc. So in the end we`ll come to big domination-like matches but already with lots of people.

And what are we having now is big enough games but with not enough people.

[Tonci87 163]

Yes, but DayZ is quite differnet from native Arma, right? So there`s no garanty that people, who like it will play in Arma like a milsim game, not survivel horror. What I am talking about is that it is very hard to find people for big PvP matches because when there are only 5-10 ppl on server nobody wants to join it and because of it there`s not enough people for good play etc via circle. So if there would be interesting games first for 10 vs 10 on 200*200 meters than amount of players will rise and with these it will be possible to play already 15 vs 15 on 300*300, than 20*20 etc. So in the end we`ll come to big domination-like matches but already with lots of people.

And what are we having now is big enough games but with not enough people.

The lack of small maps (BTW, take a look at shapur, Utes, the desert and proving grounds) is not the why there is a small PvP crowd. PvP beeing so unpopular has other reasons.

Those CoD kiddies that bought Arma 2 for DayZ were mostly impressed by the enourmous size of the map and will surely miss that in other games. Going for small maps just to please new arcade players would be an enourmous step backwards

[R0adki11 3949]

The lack of small maps (BTW, take a look at shapur, Utes, the desert and proving grounds) is not the why there is a small PvP crowd. PvP beeing so unpopular has other reasons.

Those CoD kiddies that bought Arma 2 for DayZ were mostly impressed by the enourmous size of the map and will surely miss that in other games. Going for small maps just to please new arcade players would be an enourmous step backwards

Exactly the OFP/Arma Series main ingredient is been able to play on huge maps, there is no need to change it.

[batto 17]

Exactly the OFP/Arma Series main ingredient is been able to play on huge maps, there is no need to change it.

Looks like you skipped last 50 pages.

[R0adki11 3949]

Looks like you skipped last 50 pages.

I was merely agreeing with Tonci87, which is why i quoted what he said. I guess you didn't see that?

Edited October 24, 2012 by R0adki11

[chortles 263]

The lack of small maps (BTW, take a look at shapur, Utes, the desert and proving grounds) is not the why there is a small PvP crowd. PvP beeing so unpopular has other reasons.

I'd say that it's an ARMA community problem :D Mind you, those maps are only small by ARMA standards...

Those CoD kiddies that bought Arma 2 for DayZ were mostly impressed by the enourmous size of the map and will surely miss that in other games.

Oh, it depends -- but what it's worth, R0adki11 and Tonci87, the dispute about "big maps versus small maps" is why my proposal specified the use of the existing "full scale" (for ARMA 3) Limnos and Stratis islands... I really don't want "how to improve PVP to attract new players" to be bogged down in "big maps versus small maps" and "ARMA vs. COD" drama, not when such arguments only distract from the question (look at how easily some people are misled by merely saying COD in the thread) and we've already got two BI-made islands ready for SP, co-op and PVP play! Edited October 24, 2012 by Chortles

[V3C1C 1]

I think the biggest problem is basic ARMA2 with all DLC. If you not using any mods it sounds, feels and plays stupid comparing to other games.

Mods like JSRS, ACE, blastcore FX .... makes ARMA2 superb. But there comes the problem - when you looking on server list there tons of server with all possible variations of addons what makes joining to some sever almost impossible.

DayZ is the perfect example of how should things should be done - one setting for every one and all happy.

BIG maps in ARMA2 for newcomers are not bonus – mostly they think it’s stupid. Because lots of running without any action. DayZ showed them that they can have action were ever they want – an dose people are starting to walk/run around without crying how stupid it is.

Also ARMA2 have same amount of toys as all modern games together – newcomers are getting lost in all this stuff ….

But most problem for all gamers community and mankind – we forgetting about fantasies and dreaming. ARMA 2 is a big sand box – you can do there all possible things what you can imagine …. But peoples wants to be in narrow tunnel games ….

[[frl]myke 14]

BIG maps in ARMA2 for newcomers are not bonus – mostly they think it’s stupid. Because lots of running without any action.

It's up to the Mission designer completely. If they decide to make the start point in the lower left corner of Chernarus and the action on the upper right without air transport...well, not the mistake of Chernarus but of the Mission designer.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Hopefully BIS doesn't make only some clones of *insertshooterhere* missions/maps. Imo it would would feel somewhat wrong + silly if the combat area of A3 pvp missions are too small and restricted (invisible walls). If player team A wants to try out a new way around instead of breaking through - the possibility should be there. If player team B wants to dive/swim instead of walking - the possibility should be there. Instant-action missions on a small area can be fun but they get quickly very boring - because everyone do know the best spots/tricks quite fast. It's a bit more thrilling if one doesn't exactly know where and with what kind of assets the opponent attacks or defends his team/himself, imo. Variety is the spice of awesome and unique games. :)

[Smurf 12]

Hopefully BIS doesn't make only some clones of *insertshooterhere* missions/maps. Imo it would would feel somewhat wrong + silly if the combat area of A3 pvp missions are too small and restricted (invisible walls). If player team A wants to try out a new way around instead of breaking through - the possibility should be there. If player team B wants to dive/swim instead of walking - the possibility should be there. Instant-action missions on a small area can be fun but they get quickly very boring - because everyone do know the best spots/tricks quite fast. It's a bit more thrilling if one doesn't exactly know where and with what kind of assets the opponent attacks or defends his team/himself, imo. Variety is the spice of awesome and unique games. :)

Sounds good in paper but it ends breaking the whole mission. You don't have enough people to simulate a frontline so small groups of players end up scattered all over the map creating small and far between battles; build defenses is almost useless since the enemy can come from any direction.

[Ekko 1]

Sounds good in paper but it ends breaking the whole mission. You don't have enough people to simulate a frontline so small groups of players end up scattered all over the map creating small and far between battles; build defenses is almost useless since the enemy can come from any direction.

Yeah, but thats what happens in most games with fast pvp missions or gamemodes. People play these kinds of games because they want to go somewhere they want to go by themselves with or without someone, and dont want to be forced to go with the flow. Pluss defenses can get boring for both sides, but surprises, now they are fun!

I think that ArmA 3 should have this pvp game mode stuff because it would attract more gamers and then Bis would make more money, and then they can hopefully work a lot on updates and bug fixes after the game is launched(no game is bugfree as we all know). I love the work they are doing now on OA and for early A3.

Poseidon is getting so many improvements that it would almost be a shame not to try it out at least once. And if they actually make this kind of game mode then we as the alpha and beta testers can tell them what we think of it, right? so no harm done. Adding a rank system and unlocks and all that shit will also be fun for a large number of players so why not add these things aswell. Ofcourse this is a lot of work, and it might be a big mistake to use so much time on something which the modders can make, but then again, people like to be able to play their game without having to download mods and needing to find a specific server to play on, just the click of one button should be enuf. For some people its just too much of a hassle, and I would infact like to just be able to join a quick match myself now and then but then be able to do those things which we normally do in ArmA aswell such as a good ol' coop game with my friends.

Making some things easier for people won't make the game worse, just for the "hardcore veterans" that believe that new players, new features and new community means: game ruined...

Edited October 24, 2012 by Ekko

[NoRailgunner 0]

@Smurf - guess there are enough people to enjoy A3 on bigger areas all together, the hurdles for those matches are: expectations, proper communication (or the lack of), attitude and willingness for compromises. These kind of bigger events, matches or campaigns are already running - just not in 1000+ pvp shooter/MMO style. I don't think that BIS are soooo keen to turn A3 into a popcorn shooter or military MMO just for the sake of trying to appeal the masses. Though, its nothing wrong with fun instant-action missions like "Ouzo-Ouzo", "Disco 2035" now and then. ;)

[Smurf 12]

@Smurf - guess there are enough people to enjoy A3 on bigger areas all together, the hurdles for those matches are: expectations, proper communication (or the lack of), attitude and willingness for compromises.

Exactly. And that is why I have to schedule (sometimes, weeks before) any type of match when I wanna play ARMA, I can't fire the game and just play it like I do with any other game. That is a HUGE let down.

I don't want to turn ARMA into COD or BF, but a straightforward out of the box working COD, or better, BF type of gamemode wouldn't hurt. Can you imagine some server ALWAYS populated? Something that I didn't saw in A2 for a long, long time before DayZ.

Problems that are part of it: mod integration; lack of standard methods to make simple things (like create\join a squad or choose a class); the lobby itself; fragmentation of... everything!

[pathetic_berserker 4]

^^^ ++this

Now , even after its been scheduled for weeks stuff still falls apart at the last moment. Though I still sneek in the occasional 2-3 player co-op with a few, its why I've sort of given up on Arma till A3 arrives,

Not going to repeat myself again, see post #489, #494,

But I will reiterate for those that jump straight into this thread, Arma game play style need not change, just a few additions out of box is all it should need.