Will Bohemia finally improve ARMA's PVP to attract New Players?

[ruhtraeel 1]

Because PVP motivates programmers to make outrageous cheats and hacks that ruin games. I have personally quit many games because of this. They sell these cheat softwares on public websites in the face of everyone and huge companies like EA seem to have no legal recourse. I enjoy PVP like anyone, but it has become a joke in all the major titles.

I can almost guarantee you that the aforementioned problem won't be very big. The most prominent purpose of cheating is so that other people look at their stats or their equipment and hopefully say "Wow, that guy is good". Cheating really only happens consistently in games that keep track of stats, or have persistent items such as DayZ. ARMA 3 won't do either, I believe, so there is no real point in cheating in the game.

[DeclaredEvol 10]

Everyone here is not getting the POINT!!!! :mad:

BE REALISTIC, you're given the different tools like flashbangs, nades... as survival tools. Battlefield 3 is more realistic under close quarters due to the customization of equipment, blinding flashlights and laser sights... you name it. The only thing it doesn't support is a better Squad Based combat. It is realistic, don't play games with us... I've played ArmA since 2007, I understand the issues I constantly see in ArmA and other games. Battlefield 3 has 10x more potential for online play than ArmA, if it had some kind of mod like Project Reality.

If you people think PvP is not realistic, try playing a bot that stands up while being shot at. He isn't smart enough to defend himself, while you have the ability to nail his ass over and over. I'm sorry, PvP can be better than CooP if there was teamwork involved... and it being a balanced game.

[antoineflemming 14]

I can almost guarantee you that the aforementioned problem won't be very big. The most prominent purpose of cheating is so that other people look at their stats or their equipment and hopefully say "Wow, that guy is good". Cheating really only happens consistently in games that keep track of stats, or have persistent items such as DayZ. ARMA 3 won't do either, I believe, so there is no real point in cheating in the game.

First and foremost, people cheat to mess with, annoy, and otherwise harass non-cheating players. Sure, for stat-tracking games, it makes them look like really good players. But cheaters also know that it annoys players who don't cheat. Regardless of whether there's stat-tracking or not, people will cheat in PvP because they think it's fun to harass other players.

[NielsS 10]

@NieslsS, I don't see this as a 'wanting everthing on a silver platter' attitude, its about polish. Making sure there is little to no confusion about the product. And making sure first timers, have the best experience possible.

True, but the editor should not go unnoticed for first timers. Instead of having say 30 PVP missions, have a few less and add templates or trainingmethods for how to create PVP missions in the editor. Perhaps add PVP-oriented modules that makes it easier to create them.

The editor is where Arma's strength lies, not the number of missions it comes with.

[Skjold 1]

I sure hope so, i always thought the PvP was the vastly superior part of the game due to very lackluster AI in COOP.

[chortles 263]

Maybe my rant came off a little narrowminded but i did used the most mentioned suggestions in this thread as a base for my rant.

And notice how I've tended to strenuously avoid defending a bunch of those suggestions? ;) I actually found many of the suggestions too narrow and not addressing the actual topic of the thread title and OP but simply describing what those posters imagined to be a "perfect" PvP mission, whereas my preference is to fundamentally improve Arma in ways that also improve the co-op experience (not entirely separately from the single-player experience) and then also have actual pre-made PVP missions made by BI ready-to-play, out-of-the-box, with no work required on my part. I didn't "show up to Arma" to do work...

(As for my first preference, "why should the PVPers have all the fun?" ;) )

I also don't care for this "have everything given on a silver platter by BIS" attitude.

How about "BI releasing a product that's worth my $50"? We evidently have differing ideas of the minimum... and frankly, the idea that Arma's strength is in the editor (read: the user's own work) implies something negative about quality of the devs' own work, NielsS. :p

The most fun i have in Arma is making missions in the editor and then play those missions with friends. I'm not saying that BIS should make very little PVP missions for Arma 3, but i suggest that you stay open to the possibility's of the editor. Would'nt it feel satisfying to have the PVP community playing your missions?

Answer: No, it doesn't feel satisfying to have the PVP community playing my missions because I show up to play existing missions made by others that hopefully don't suck, and I wouldn't be surprised if that also holds true for the majority of those who "convert" to Arma, even those who "came for DayZ, stayed for the milsim". Though I agree with the idea that the Editor should have templates and modules for PVP missions for more easy/ready creation, sometimes the idea of praising that (if it actually happens) feels like giving out an award for participation.

Thankfully, this time around the devs seems to be holding themselves to a higher standard than you do... and higher than "we're not Cliffs of Dover"... :lol: (Not accusing you of liking Cliffs of Dover, oh no I wouldn't be that unfair to you :p)

As far as hacking, I'll agree -- the cat's out of the bag when it comes to Arma security vulnerability, merely splitting off DayZ to a standalone (instead of an Arma mod) won't fix that since Arma's probably now got a reputation for "easy target", and frankly the sheer "heavy consequences for dying" probably makes trolling an Arma session, PVP or co-op, even more tempting...

Edited December 12, 2012 by Chortles

[wipman 1]

Everyone here is not getting the POINT!!!! :mad:

BE REALISTIC, you're given the different tools like flashbangs, nades... as survival tools. Battlefield 3 is more realistic under close quarters due to the customization of equipment, blinding flashlights and laser sights... you name it. The only thing it doesn't support is a better Squad Based combat. It is realistic, don't play games with us... I've played ArmA since 2007, I understand the issues I constantly see in ArmA and other games. Battlefield 3 has 10x more potential for online play than ArmA, if it had some kind of mod like Project Reality.

If you people think PvP is not realistic, try playing a bot that stands up while being shot at. He isn't smart enough to defend himself, while you have the ability to nail his ass over and over. I'm sorry, PvP can be better than CooP if there was teamwork involved... and it being a balanced game.

Hi, IMO the BF3 have better CQB because there i could enter into a room as part of a four men fire team and be effective, this is something that i've never seen on the ArmA series, it's because the anims and the controls, IMO we've too much and too bad anims in comparison, on the BF3... you have few anims but good ones instead; and that IMO is what makes the BF3 more CQB/Squad Tactics friendly aside of the complexity of the rooms, corridors ands places where the firefights take place. Let's C ya

[Kamov 1]

Hi, IMO the BF3 have better CQB because there i could enter into a room as part of a four men fire team and be effective, this is something that i've never seen on the ArmA series, it's because the anims and the controls, IMO we've too much and too bad anims in comparison, on the BF3... you have few anims but good ones instead; and that IMO is what makes the BF3 more CQB/Squad Tactics friendly aside of the complexity of the rooms, corridors ands places where the firefights take place. Let's C ya

But you can actually move your body! Fluent movement is a trait of a ARCADE GAME :O, thus stick man in ArmA series is superior!

(Common view held in the ArmA community)

[onlyrazor 11]

(Common view held in the ArmA community)

I don't know, from the opinions of pretty much everybody I've seen in this community regarding the improved animations, they all appreciate fluid motion and animations.

[Kamov 1]

I don't know, from the opinions of pretty much everybody I've seen in this community regarding the improved animations, they all appreciate fluid motion and animations.

Last time I suggested something be in ArmA, I referenced BF3's CQB and then got swarmed for "wanting ArmA to be BF3".

[slatts 1978]

Let's not forget that BF3's animations run off the FIFA animation engine which is well developed for fluid animations(and it's part of EA's empire so DICE got it handy)..something BIS doesn't have

[Kamov 1]

Let's not forget that BF3's animations run off the FIFA animation engine which is well developed for fluid animations(and it's part of EA's empire so DICE got it handy)..something BIS doesn't have

Its not just about what others see, everything is FLUID. It runs so smoothly, your gun moves perfectly and your body moves perfectly it just all fits together. Its perfect FPS movement. In ArmA, you're a twig.

[SandboxPlaya 10]

Its not just about what others see, everything is FLUID. It runs so smoothly, your gun moves perfectly and your body moves perfectly it just all fits together. Its perfect FPS movement. In ArmA, you're a twig.

It's just an illusion. BF3 is a pile of rotten garbage. Apparently you don't have enough experience with fps. There is nothing wrong with ARMA2 movement apart from not being able to interrupt certain actions like walking over obstacles, weapon/binocs switching, etc.

Let's not forget that BF3's animations run off the FIFA animation engine which is well developed for fluid animations(and it's part of EA's empire so DICE got it handy)..something BIS doesn't have

Oh please! BF2 animations were better even without that.

Edited December 16, 2012 by SandboxPlaya

[Kamov 1]

It's just an illusion. BF3 is a pile of rotten garbage. Apparently you don't have enough experience with fps.

Actually it has the best movement, sound and animations I've ever seen out of any FPS ever. the above poster is a example, OnlyRazor.

[SandboxPlaya 10]

Actually it has the best movement, sound and animations I've ever seen out of any FPS ever. the above poster is a example, OnlyRazor.

So fast movement + having a massive gun swaying in your FOV while sprinting and displaying some fancy animation of your legs when vaulting over obstacles (despite vaulting itself is pretty clunky) is considered the best/fluid movement now? What the hell am I reading?

Best Sound? What about it? It's just good, nothing more. BF2 mods did a far better job, even BF2 itself.

Animations? Again, what? They're by far the worst of any game ever released recently. Changing posture on the move makes the characters look like seals. 3rd person recoil animations look too busy, CoD-like and totally do not representing the 1st person ones. Having only one 3rd person reload animation for all weapons regardless of their actual reload time is an extremely lazy piss poor job by DICE. Furthermore, 3rd person models aren't tailored to 1st person vertical axis positioning at all. What a fail!

Battlefield 3 also has the worst netcode, visual art direction, vehicular gameplay and gunplay of any game ever made. But that's a topic for another day.

[Kamov 1]

So fast movement + having a massive gun swaying in your FOV while sprinting and displaying some fancy animation of your legs when vaulting over obstacles (despite vaulting itself is pretty clunky) is considered the best/fluid movement now? What the hell am I reading?

Best Sound? What about it? It's just good, nothing more. BF2 mods did a far better job, even BF2 itself.

Animations? Again, what? They're by far the worst of any game ever released recently. Changing posture on the move makes the characters look like seals. 3rd person recoil animations look too busy, CoD-like and totally do not representing the 1st person ones. Having only one 3rd person reload animation for all weapons regardless of their actual reload time is an extremely lazy piss poor job by DICE. Furthermore, 3rd person models aren't tailored to 1st person vertical axis positioning at all. What a fail!

Battlefield 3 also has the worst netcode, visual art direction, vehicular gameplay and gunplay of any game ever made. But that's a topic for another day.

You're pretty ignorant.

[NoRailgunner 0]

How many devs worked on BF3 and how many on A2OA? How many $$$ EA and BIS have for their "triple A" developments? Different target groups ... apples and oranges. BIS build their awesome-splendid place between casual shooters and simulations. Cross fingers that new A3 animations/movements and interactions do feel better and closer to the real world. Perhaps weight, form and function of objects/features will be improved too? Something that makes the player think before he is going into action... Maybe BIS can include a few pvp missions with no-respawn and/or maximum of 5 minutes revive - so A3 pvp players in general take more care about their + others life ingame?? :)

[SandboxPlaya 10]

You're pretty ignorant.

I'm an experienced Battlefield (and sandbox in general) gamer who knows where the standards have been set in the past and that dogsh*t called "Battlefield 3", you're preaching, isn't up to them.

Still, I'd like you to elaborate on how BF3 movement is more fluid than Arma2.

[Smurf 12]

Still, I'd like you to elaborate on how BF3 movement is more fluid than Arma2.

You can move indoors.

[SandboxPlaya 10]

You can move indoors.

weaponmodelcollisionwithobjects 0

[PuFu 4591]

weaponmodelcollisionwithobjects 0

+ some larger buildings ;)

[Smurf 12]

weaponmodelcollisionwithobjects 0

An unarmed, slim civilian feels like an elephant moving around.

[antoineflemming 14]

I don't know, from the opinions of pretty much everybody I've seen in this community regarding the improved animations, they all appreciate fluid motion and animations.

A common view of several community members is to immediately flame the person who mentions something (in another game) that is better than the same feature in ArmA2. Like animations. BIS may do a really great job of tying their animations to first person so that the character's not sliding along the ground, but the animations are subpar to that of Battlefield 3. And I'm talking BF3's third person character animations. They ARE smoother. But say that, and you immediately get flamed, with fanboys saying that you want the game to be like BF3.

[onlyrazor 11]

A common view of several community members is to immediately flame the person who mentions something (in another game) that is better than the same feature in ArmA2. Like animations. BIS may do a really great job of tying their animations to first person so that the character's not sliding along the ground, but the animations are subpar to that of Battlefield 3. And I'm talking BF3's third person character animations. They ARE smoother. But say that, and you immediately get flamed, with fanboys saying that you want the game to be like BF3.

Wow. That's pretty bad. For one, if making it like BF3 or any other 'non sim game' in certain aspects makes the game better for everybody, including them, they should accept it.

Anyway, I'm eagerly awaiting the new and improved animations anyway.

[PuFu 4591]

A common view of several community members is to immediately flame the person who mentions something (in another game) that is better than the same feature in ArmA2. Like animations. BIS may do a really great job of tying their animations to first person so that the character's not sliding along the ground, but the animations are subpar to that of Battlefield 3. And I'm talking BF3's third person character animations. They ARE smoother. But say that, and you immediately get flamed, with fanboys saying that you want the game to be like BF3.

good fucking christ, i doubt anyone will argue with you one the animation SYSTEM in BF3 being better than ArmA, or most of all the other games out there for that matter. Not even metalcraze would i gather.

BUT, what while that is true, and while ArmA games have one animation for both 1st person view and 3rd person view, that is not the reason why the movement and controls lacks fluency. It is not the animation, but the system that controls it that has limitations (hell, prior to A2, there was no upper and lower body split anims).

On the animations as a whole, i would take ArmA body movement anims over BF3 any day. But i guess that is a matter of subjectivity.