A port too far.

[Hawk Firestorm 10]

Here we all are we stumped up our cash all excited expecting a great PC game and from what I've seen so far all I'm seeing is a game for consoles. :(

From the UI to the gameplay and many of the key features of the orginal. like free navigation you name it, all seem to have died in the attempt (rather foolish one) to make this console friendly.

I've never seen any game for either platform that ended well when it wasn't designed for the platform it was going on, the target audiences tastes are utterly different.

Or to put it this way, you may like water, I may like scotch, try mix em and you end up with watered down scotch and who in hell likes that?

While it is possible to converge many aspects of the game to make it compatible for many platforms there's a limit, and you guys have gone way past it as have many before you, to the point that the quality of the product is suffering because of it.

The PC has and always will be the higher bar of the two and for a game like this its where you should be aiming, the vast majority of those that this game appeals to in the first place started out there, many of them are techheads like myself and they simply won't go for yet another DA2 fiasco expecting sonic the hedgehog lumping over the nearest horizon at any moment.

Expectations are very high, and you have the rare opportunity to make a classic than can spawn a whole series of games or make a utter lemon, there's no middle ground here, so far I'm seeing too much yellow, from the controls to the gameplay, its very light on the strategy part and leans heavily towards the 'thumb wagglers'.

If you guys want to make a console version all well and good but the pc version should have some game enhancements and its UI catered for that platform and the console theirs other than that the two should meet as little as possible as they are utterely incompatible.

I could be wrong but I sincerly doubt there's any Xbox or PS3 users here that came forth with their cash upfront expecting you to be making a console game.

[Appogee 1]

I'm no fan of consolisation either, but your post seems a little harsh.

Aside from the radial menu and the auto aim - both of which are optional and which we don't need to use - what specifically about CCGM seems overly constrained by the console platform?

This is still a beta, with many unimplemented features. But from what we already see, I suspect our strategy appetites will be served by large maps, a variety of islands and potential attack strategies, tech tree unlocks etc.

And from a controls perspective, I can't really see how the vehicles should be controlled or handle all that much differently to how they do now?

[Dajunka 10]

I myself was I little miffed at this.

You wait 20+ years for a remake of a classic and then one comes along that holds true to the classic. You are elated, and then you find out that it is to be a crappy console port. Why do this to a grand classic? Do it to a zhitty game by all means, but not Carrier command.

As for controls they seem to be mainly optimized for the poxy x-box controller. It's a shame that it's all about money these days and no love nor respect for the game.

Console ports never reach their full potential.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Dajunka

[Hawk Firestorm 10]

Harsh I don't think so.

The UI, the lack of free navigation, and many of the subtle and important strategy elements of the original just aren't there. (Or indeed been expanded upon to reflect users increased expectations of depth)

It kind of feels like someone went hmm carrier command, went out did the lovely graphics etc but didn't understand the subtle elements of the originals design that added to the strategic play, never mind to expand on it for todays audience.

This game should have been aimed squarely at BI's existing user base, its precisely the audience that it would appeal to in the first place.

I understand BI trying to market the game into the Console market, and there's nothing stopping them but the PC version should be the high water mark and ported from there to the console not the other way around.

At the moment other than the graphics the gameplay is rather empty and devoid of any strategical depth, from free navigation and long range deployment, deployment on the move you name it many of the originals features aren't there, and yes its a beta, but from the way its been done it doesn't appear they will ever be there because of the attempts to converge the game to the console market.

This game was crying out for the PC, its the only platform with the power and input methods to make it with the depth it deserves.

At the moment there's far too much flash and no substance, as far as the gameplay and strategic elements of the game, it lacks a great deal of depth because its being dumbed down to the lowest common denominator that being the console.

I swear consoles have been the baine of this industry since their inception, I've not seen a 'classic' Pc game in about the last 10 years becasue of this inane and moronic idea of platform convergence, that you can mistically take 2 completely different target audiences and somehow magically make them co-exist and end up with a premium product at the end of it.

I'm expecting a deep and rich improvement of the original not a half baked console port, and the vast majority of those that hear the words carrier command will be too.

Someone should go put a watered down bottle of scotch on the CEO's desk and ask him if he likes it, I'm pretty sure he'll say no as will the vast majority that have been waiting for a remake of this game for decades.

Make quality, do the craft, the rest will take care of itself.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Hawk Firestorm

[max power 21]

It kind of feels like someone went hmm carrier command, went out did the lovely graphics etc but didn't understand the subtle elements of the originals design

You realize the original designer is involved...

[Hawk Firestorm 10]

Indeed I do, sadly it doesn't seem to have effected the games developement path in a positive manner from what I'm currently looking at.

I don't know if that's because he's been lured to the darkside ala consoles. heh

I'm sorry boys but the path your currently taking your out apple picking jumping up a pear tree.

Or to put it another way, the original holds a great palce in many peoples minds along with games like Homeworld, Wing commander you name it.

As is now you think people will be saying the same of this game in 10 years time??

If the answer is no then your going down the wrong path because the title most certainly has the scope for it.

And for me at this point he answer is sadly and absolutely no.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Hawk Firestorm

[max power 21]

Just so it's clear, I'm not a BI employee.

I guess since you're a pay and contribute beta owner, you could perhaps make some posts with some information in them and see what happens. I don't really see much in these particular posts to grab on to other than you're unhappy. No doubt the target audience was decided a long time ago and will not be changing. Perhaps if you give some feedback on smaller issues that are more likely to be tweaked in the future...

[Dajunka 10]

Well, I may not be very happy that this, of all games, is going to be a port. But I am also very glad that it is getting made, and, what I have seen so far is absolutely stunning. :love:

[Guest]

Just out of curiousity, did the controls change in the latest beta compared to the first? Cause I personally don't have a problem with the controls but have not played the newest beta yet. Of course a few things (like controling the carrier could be different) but overall after a little practise I managed the controls.

And nope, I am not a console player. I dont even own a console so its not like I like the way that controls, however that is ;)

[Dajunka 10]

No, they didn't. you still cannot remap your keyboard, or should I say, you can remap it but it does not work in game. You cannot add a normal joypad or joystick. But apparently is works great on a x-box controller. :mad:

Edited May 8, 2012 by Dajunka

[Guest]

Ah, is that all? This is a beta, I am sure the final version (or maybe even a future beta) will allow you to remap your keys correctly.

And if not........well than its something to complain about than :)

[scareya 1]

I am no friend of console ports either, but I do have to defend Carrier Command Gaea Mission in this matter. As Foxhound just said we are testing a Beta version. You should not expect all functions to work properly at this stage (for more information about this refer to Wikipedia: Software release life cycle). The fact that a key binding is offered should show you that Bohemia Interactive knows about the need of a function like that for PC users.

There is another - strong - argument for the importance of PC and Carrier Command Gaea Mission:

The Beta is NOT available on any console! :biggrin:

[Appogee 1]

The Beta is NOT available on any console! :biggrin:

This is a good point.

To those concerned about the consolification of Carrier Command... What specifically is missing or lacking? In what ways would the game be made more strategic to satisfy the needs of PC gamers?

[Dajunka 10]

Ah, is that all? This is a beta, I am sure the final version (or maybe even a future beta) will allow you to remap your keys correctly.

And if not........well than its something to complain about than :)

Yes, your right. I am nit-picking, and I shouldn't. CCGM is already one hell of a awesome game, and has gone beyond my expectations. It could have been a heck of a lot worse if some shabby software house had got hold of it, they could have butchered it completely.

I still hate ******** consoles though. :)

[MrSquid 1]

I agree that the UI is pretty clunky for a PC game. There's no reason we can't have, for example, all the carrier production functions on the screen at the same time as any of the other controls. Having to click the carrier piloting controls to bring up the production screens is weird. We're using PC's here! We should be able to pin the production or map window to a corner of the screen and keep it there!

Or we could really go nuts and have some multi-monitor joy, with the map on another screen entirely!

But I do have to say:

the path your currently taking your out apple picking jumping up a pear tree.

What? :p

[jedra 11]

Most of Scotland prefer to take a little water with their whisky...

I wish people would not blame the ills of the world on consoles - it's not their fault - they are only bits of hardware in a plastic box (much like a PC, and in the case of the 360, very much like a PC). I'm afraid it is a cold hard fact that there are more people with games consoles than there are people with gaming PCs - of course this is going to affect the way publishers fund the development of games.

Now I have been playing games on consoles since the days of 'tennis' and 'PCs' since the UK101 and in this time I have seen some truly bad conversions (from arcade to console, PC to console, console to PC, console to console). I have also seem some dreadful 'made for all platforms' games too which have not worked well on any (I owned Dragon Age 2 on the PC and the 360 and it was truly awful on both!). I don't think this is one of them - in fact I think it works very well - I rather like playing it on my PC using the Xbox controller and in fact I would probably pick up a copy for the 360 when it is out, so I can play it with some of my friends who do not own a gaming PC.

I guess there have been some compromises along the way to make it 'multi platform' but to me they are not glaringly obvious nor are they badly implemented - it still feels smooth on the PC. Having said this, it being a beta there is still time to maybe add some PC specific stuff. The game is different to the usual type of games you find being made for the consoles, so if it sells well, perhaps we will see more publishers willing to fund more innovative types of games which will benefit the industry and us players as a whole.

[Hawk Firestorm 10]

I do agree there are some elements you can do to help make a product capable of being put to the console, but I'm seeing too much of it so far, to the point it degrades the game, the lack of free navigation for one.

Yes its beta, I'm fully aware of this and have done many many many betas before this one, however my concerns stem from where I see the game is currently heading, and sadly it appears so far while there are some good elements the base engineering of the gameplay is rather weak and lacks tactical depth.

The UI is clunky and unwieldy in many places and liveable in others as are the controls, but that aside there are some things that currently do the game injustace in many respects such as free navigation, the effect it has on strategic options for the player, as well as it appears there's too much being payed to the FPS side of the game and too little to the strategy side.

While the old game does invoke nostalgia, I'm also smart enough to know that if you just made a updated version with better graphics in todays market I don't think it would be a big success, peoples expectations have evolved and grown, the game needs alot more expansion in the gameplay and there's a massive scope in all areas from the 4x elements to the air/land/sea side that can be expanded on enourmously, and still offer a great deal of appeal to those that like FPS and blowing things up.

I wouldn't say the main reason is that devs develope games for consoles because there's more of them, there's more PC's about than there ever will be consoles, its more of a case that its easier to do so and as a result earns more cash, PC gamers are a pretty demanding bunch, and the platform has many variants and different hardware so its harder to do, over that of a unified platform.

As to it not having a effect on the industry or the populace at large well, I'd strongly disagree, 10-15 years ago you could pretty much get a game in every genre, nowdays its all FPS because of the impact of consoles, the quality of products being offered these days is rather poor as is the variety.

Looking at when this is supposed to be comming out the door and what I've seen so far yes I've deep concerns on whats going to be at the end of it, I find myself asking is this going to be better than the original or even better than hostile waters and well so far I'm thinking no, better graphics sure gameplay well...

[Gazzareth 1]

I guess there have been some compromises along the way to make it 'multi platform' but to me they are not glaringly obvious nor are they badly implemented - it still feels smooth on the PC. Having said this, it being a beta there is still time to maybe add some PC specific stuff. The game is different to the usual type of games you find being made for the consoles, so if it sells well, perhaps we will see more publishers willing to fund more innovative types of games which will benefit the industry and us players as a whole.

Completely right, the way things are these days there are going to be so many more sales of a game if it is available on the consoles, which makes it much more likely that BI will offer more content for the game later on. For the things that people don't like then use the Feedback system to say about it, you never know it may well get changed - it is STILL beta so you never know !!

G

[Toot 1]

I too project my false sense of self importance by bashing consoles at every opportunity

[gunso 10]

i think the real reason ppl hate consoles is because gamemakers limit the PC version to console capability. It's fine when the console is still new and quite powerful, but sucks when it pretty aged like nowadays.

[nww02 1]

Ports *can* be done well. GTA: San Vice city (I think) looked amazing on the PC, mediocre on the XBox, and meh on the PS2, but they all felt 'about right'.

I really fear that a decision will have to be made at some point which will go like this:-

Exec 1: "The P&C Beta has raised this one major issue. We can fix it on the PC by throwing more RAM at it, but the console port won't take it"

Exec 2: "Just leave it out of the console version, then"

Exec 1: "That's the problem, the playtesters tell us that this feature is a real killer, and could make the game awesome, and PC gamers will be 'WTF' when it's not there".

Exec 2: "Well, the console gamers will be "WTF" if it's only in the PC version, and we don't want two codebases, leave it out."

Perhaps the one-island-at-a-time issue might fall into this category already? I don't think BIS would do this though. OpFlash was awesome, ARMAII is awesome, so I have every confidence that CCGM will be awesome.

Edited May 11, 2012 by nww02

[gadgetmind 10]

You realize the original designer is involved...

Yes, I'm involved, but not heavily involved: probably as involved as you guys are now but starting many months earlier.

Personally, I do think some aspects of the controls need to be better, but this has been improving version by version.

I'm sure that well-considered and specific suggestions will be taken onboard, whereas saying that it's all the fault of the consoles isn't really too helpful. Games have pretty much always had to be multi-platform, so developers have always had to work around different architectures, different levels of performance, different amounts of storage, and different input methods. This does cause headaches, and it is the job of the developer to try and give users on each platform a great gaming experience.

Remember, the BIS guys are also fans of CC and they want the game to be great!

[slatts 1978]

I'm gonna come at this from another angle. One from a person who most likely isnt gonna buy CC:GM, and plays both PC and consoles

what exactly is wrong with this game being on consoles? how will this affect the PC version? most cross platforms games have differences between PC and console, a quick example is that PC players of BF3 get the commo rose, console doesn't.

if you want to play CC:GM on PC that's fine, why those the fact I could pop over to Gamestop and buy it for PS3 bother you so much? what's wrong with consoles? If you want to play PC games, go ahead, but hating console players for no good reason is just...well...not nice :p

oh and the usual point, its a BETA and can change ;)

[Dajunka 10]

If console players deliberately go out and buy, with the intention of owning, and using a console, then they deserve to be hated. :p

[nww02 1]

It's horses for courses.

Consoles are best at things which require communal, low-resolution, low-attention-span, low-complexity, high immediacy (or not, if it's a PS3 ;-)

PCs are best at things which require solo play, planning, time, high-res, lots of CPU horsepower, RAM, intricate placement of things, etc.

I love my PS2 for the dance mat games at drunken parties etc. But we're unconvinced that a console RTS would provide the level of depth and accuracy of a PC version. We fear that they'd have to 'dumb it down', to prevent complexity explosion. Secondly, if the console port is given poor reviews, it may have some 'splash damage' on the PC version. It's pure snobbery, that's what it is :) I look forward to BI proving me wrong, though.