Is The Mossad planning another USS Liberty

[walker 0]

Hi all

A point of order to Fox '09, Hans Ludwig, maturin and [EVO] Dan; it would appear to me that the three of you are veering off topic into some private weird other topic.

I do not say you do so intentionally or for what purpose you would do so, I merely note that you appear to be doing so and would seek to guide you back to the topic of the thread.

Point of the topic!

Is The Mossad planning another USS Liberty? (Hint! Kind of in the title and the first post)

My reason for posing the question is that there appears to have been a coordinated effort from several branches of the US Intelligence agencies to brief the Media on False Flag operations by Israel. Such things are done to send an unmistakable signal.

http://news.firedoglake.com/2012/01/15/report-israel-engaged-in-false-flag-operation-to-foment-terrorist-attacks-inside-iran/

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/01/is-america-helping-israel-kill-iranian-scientists-the-view-from-iran/251434/

Secondly there is a "Rumour" circulating that a certain former US asset has "Disappeared" been purchased by fringe elements in US political circles along with the services of certain privatised military elements. :(

This along with a information from a senior Israeli military source about the prospect of "Pearl Harbour Incident" being a nice surprise; the release of the information may have been intentional, not all Israeli's agree with all aspects of their current governments less formal plans.

That certain less sensible elements in the main stream US political circles were positioning them selves in such regards is surely just coincidence I am sure. :)

Perhaps it would be better for all if the Asset, stripped of certain technology is sold to say Saudi Arabia, as where it seems to be heading is not far from there. :)

Kind Regards walker

Edited January 16, 2012 by walker

[maturin 12]

I object to the state of Israel because it is a jewish state (obviously).

Back up a minute here. Israel is a Jewish state. A Jewish SECULAR state. Jews in Israel are a nation' date=' not a religion. An athiest in Israel is a Jew if he is ethnically defined as Jewish and an Israeli nationalist. So your objection to Israel's existence is completely wrong-headed, and you are just going to make everyone else think that you are an anti-semite who thinks Jews are ineligible for statehood because of their *insert unsavory characteristic.*

I don't want a single taxpayer dollar going towards a middle finger in the region. Hence why I think Israel should dissolve.

You do see the enormous leap between those two positions, right?

How that policy is enacted, by what country, I don't care, so long as it is peaceful.

And I don't care how a cuddly puppy is elected president, so long as it is peaceful. It's not remotely possible, nor even just.

Is The Mossad planning another USS Liberty?

Until you rebut ReconTeam, I don't see much point in this topic.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Walker, the USS Liberty was not a False Flag operation, & I think you really need to go back and learn the definition of that phrase.

If the attack on the USS Liberty was not an accident, then it was a deliberate attack on an American vessel by the Israelis, who never pretended to be anything other than Israelis, which does not fall under the term "False Flag". If it was anything, it was a panic move on the part of a lone officer, or even decided on by the Israeli government. It was a threat. The attack on the USS Liberty (If not an accident or decided on by a rogue officer) was nothing more than a message to the leadership of the United States.

[walker 0]

Hi all

In reply to Darkhorse 1-6, the opinion of surviving USS Liberty veterans is that the intention was of the Israeli aircraft and Torpedo boats was to sink the USS Liberty, dead men tell not tales as they say, the belief is that the Israeli forces Flubbed it, despite over an hour of attacks, including strafing runs with machine gun and cannon, naval cannon and torpedo fire and the Napalm that some seem to emphasize for some unknown reason.

Also in reply to maturin for the one on topic sentence he wrote:

I invite you to read the sources their opinion seems different to yours:

http://www.uss-liberty.com/2011/02/25/israels-false-flag-attack-on-the-uss-liberty-1967/

http://www.ussliberty.org/

The attacks began at around 2.00pm the initial report from the Liberty was that the USS Liberty was

"Under attack by unidentified jet aircraft, require immediate assistance."

So I guess that kind of scotches the unfounded assertion that the aircraft were identifiable, five torpedoes were launched at the USS Liberty of which several hit, so the intention to sink the USS Liberty was unmistakable. The attack only broke off after aircraft from the USS Saratoga were launched to defend the USS Liberty around 3:30 p.m.

I am pointing out the False Flag case of the Liberty because it appears the US Administration seems to be angry about False Flag operations by the Israeli's hense the coordinated release from several branches of intel on previous Israeli False Flag operations, along with the "Pearl Harbour Incident" leak and chatter about the location of a former US asset.

Kind Regards walker

Edited January 16, 2012 by walker

[Fox '09 14]

Back up a minute here. Israel is a Jewish state. A Jewish SECULAR state. Jews in Israel are a nation, not a religion. An athiest in Israel is a Jew if he is ethnically defined as Jewish and an Israeli nationalist. So your objection to Israel's existence is completely wrong-headed, and you are just going to make everyone else think that you are an anti-semite who thinks Jews are ineligible for statehood because of their *insert unsavory characteristic.*

I understand Israel is a "secular Jewish state" but I've seen some articles about discrimination against muslim inhabitants as far as settlements go. I'm not coming at this at an ethnic point of view, but I get what you're pointing out.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/mar/24/world/la-fg-israel-arab-laws-20110324

for example. It's no different then proposed US voter registration laws, if you know it will affect minorities and you know that there is little to no voter fraud, you are indirectly targeting minorities.

But it isn't sufficient enough to say that Israel is necessarily a "jewish" state I will agree. I still stand by what I said; I don't think there should be a jewish state. Secular it may be - but the idea that any religion deserves any land because they deem it holy is wrong in my eyes.

@Walker, are you going to bring in the sergeant at arms now? :)

I don't see how it isn't relevant. I would understand if we were talking about china or what have you, but we're still somewhat on topic. It's your thread and I will respect that, but the reaction to my comment is a bit inflammatory (warranted or not) and I would rather explain it in the same thread I posted it in.

[hellfire257 3]

False flagging:

Would I be surprised? Nope.

Jewish statehood argument:

Not going to touch on it as I'd be here for hours ranting in circles.

USS Liberty incident:

There's no clear evidence to conclude either argument.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Hellfire257

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Once again, the USS Liberty was not a False Flag operation. As your links clearly show, we knew that Israel was attacking the Liberty, we knew Israeli pilots knew it was an American vessel, we knew that Israeli helicopters visually confirmed it was an American vessel. The Crew knew, the government knew, and the Israeli's never claimed it was anybody else.

False flag (aka Black Flag) operations are covert operations designed to deceive the public in such a way that the operations appear as though they are being carried out by other entities.[citation needed] The name is derived from the military concept of flying false colors; that is flying the flag of a country other than one's own. False flag operations are not limited to war and counter-insurgency operations, and can be used in peace-time.

I agree that Israel may do something stupid again, but you need to realize that the USS Liberty and the term "False Flag" have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Kind regards - Darkhorse.

[walker 0]

Hi all

In Reply to Fox '09

I would submit that the legitimacy of the state of Israel is a matter for another thread and not this one. I would further submit that such questions as religion or ethnicity have no place in this thread and can serve no other purpose than that of closing down informed debate by dragging the thread off its topic.

On the matter of whether USS Liberty was a False Flag attempt that failed.

Further on the slightly aside but still on topic question by Darkhorse 1-6 of whether USS Liberty was a False Flag Operation that the Israelis were involved in:

I would submit that the specific jamming of US Navy tactical frequencies as well as international maritime distress frequencies along with the use of unmarked aircraft by the forces attacking the USS Liberty as reported by the crew of the USS Liberty are a prima facie case for arguing the False Flag purpose of the attack.

http://www.usslibertyveterans.org/

Back to the core topic

With regard to the current US administration's anger at Israel for False Flag operations that threaten US lives and that might besmirch the USA, or cause it to fight a war on false premises, the fact that the release of the intel was coordinated to be sourced across several division of US intel seems to indicate how high up the message is coming from.

That other perhaps peripheral entities may have given the Israeli's the nod for their own political reasons, without the permission or perhaps in defiance of those at the top would seem to be a reasonable explanation as to why the US administration is sending this message so unequivocally.

http://bigthink.com/ideas/41980

As to who the current False Flag players are? We are certain only of Israel.

As to the "missing asset" (not really because it is known where it is :D ) I would suggest that following the money trail would be informative.

Kind Regards walker

Edited January 16, 2012 by walker
Grammar

[PELHAM 10]

It can not in any way be described as a false flag operation. Firstly the Aircraft used were Dassault Mirages and Mysteries - the Arab Forces all used Soviet equipment so even if the aircraft were unmarked it would be obvious who carried out the attack. I doubt that the aircraft were unmarked, US servicemen were used to seeing brightly coloured US Navy Aircraft, Israel had more subtle camo because of the constant threat of air attack.

Within an hour after confirming the identity of the ship from a life raft retreived from the sea, the Israelis sent 2 rescue helicopters to offer assistance, 2 patrol boats returned 90mins later to offer assisstance but their offer of help was rejected. Two hours after the attack the Israelis contacted the US to inform them of the incident and later the same day provided a helicopter to fly a US Naval Atache from Tel Aviv to the ship.

How is this a false flag?

With reference to the bombing in Iran you can be certain of nothing - it could be anyone. Iran has other neighbours that don't want it to become too powerful.

Edited January 17, 2012 by PELHAM

[Dosenmais 10]

I don't know , doesn't that all sound like a conspiracy theory ?

Yeah i was just joking. If they start a war, cut off the oil supplies for europe, then the s*** will hit the ven. It will first lower the industrial production which is left, then the infrastructure will be slowered down, then there will be the first short terms and when the first food stamps got out instead of regulare disconter comercials of special offers, people will starting lose nervs. And many would just don't care anymore and do something stupid which will give the EU Police forces a reason to enforce some sort of martial law.

[freeman83 10]

Yes interesting bunch the Mossad. It's funny that the MSM doesn't repeat the expose aired just after 911 about the Israeli spy rings and the 5 dancing Israeli's seen celebrating the first plane hit the tower, whom where later arrested in a truck full of explosives on the George Washington bridge on 9/11/2001. Not to mention the False Israeli intelligence about Iraqi Anthrax which was part of the lie's that led to the Iraq war.

I wasn't really surprised to here about their latest adventures. These guy's have incredible audacity but not in a good way, more of an arrogance really. The Israeli's have a history with false flag terrorism. When the Irgun bombed the King David hotel, they did it dressed as Arabs. Come to think of it, i think the Israeli's pioneered Terrorism in it's modern form. Ironic isn't it.

Well i expect nothing to change. I expect Israel's allies to continue the Irrational unconditional support of the Rogue state who's un official, official policy is Ethnic Cleansing, Racism and brutality. Lets not be naive, the US is likely to go to war for Israel again, and again many innocents will die. But hey nobody seems to give a toss about Civilians, especially if they live in the middle east.

It's a sad world we live in.

Good thread Walker, Happy New Year btw

Edit ; Kind Regards ;)

Edited January 17, 2012 by freeman83

[Laqueesha 474]

Just another case of the 3v1l j00z at work, I tells ya. :p I joke, I joke. I kid, I kid!

Edited January 17, 2012 by Laqueesha

[eble 3]

I read that the attack on the USS Liberty only stopped when a Soviet Spy ship made it presence known by sailing within close visual range of the Liberty.

Once seen the attack had to stop as it was being recorded, it wasn't in Soviet interest for any US forces to Attack Eygpt.

I'm more inclined to believe this than anything else regarding the Israelie's stopping the attack.

Strike Aircraft were recalled twice from the US battle groups supposedly from aiding the USS liberty, all pleas for help were twarted by the two battle groups in the area after being ordered not to assist.

The liberty had to steam out of the area alone and un-protected after the engagement.

The guys on that ship were very lucky to survive.

[PELHAM 10]

Lol so you have not read the transcripts of radio recordings, declassified documents from the US and USSR and other things that reveal it was a simple case of mistaken identity?

The US planes were recalled as the 1st wave were carrying nuclear weapons and it was deemed unwise to send them into combat, the 2nd wave were recalled as President Johnson got involved and assumed the USSR was the attacker and wanted to avoid a confrontation. Commanders at the scene were overuled by the white house and anyone well read in history knows this occurred regularly at the time.

Below is a montage of the Egyptian El Quseir and USS Liberty. Can you tell which ship is El Quseir and which is USS Liberty? Remember you are either in a fast moving, high flying jet or a being thrown around in a torpedo boat, you have only seconds to act and you think it is an enemy ship that will shoot at you as soon as it is aware of your presence. When the boats attacked the Liberty was already on fire, covered with smoke and the Liberty crew opened fire on the Israeli PT boats 1st. That was a big mistake.

I think the whole incident occurred because of a lack of thought and planning by the US leadership. They sailed into a war zone as if they were on some sort of pleasure cruise. At the time of the attack the captain of the liberty was sunbathing on the deck along with other officers. No additinal flags or identity markings were put on the decks, no additional lookouts were stationed, the crew were not on a war footing as they should have been. There was no planning or preperation. The day before the attack on the Liberty, Israeli aircraft had bombed an Israeli armored column south of the West Bank town of Jenin. Shit happens.

Edited January 17, 2012 by PELHAM

[dm 9]

Below is a montage of the Egyptian El Quseir and USS Liberty. Can you tell which ship is El Quseir and which is USS Liberty? Remember you are either in a fast moving, high flying jet or a being thrown around in a torpedo boat, you have only seconds to act and you think it is an enemy ship that will shoot at you as soon as it is aware of your presence.

This clearly falls into the same category as those Apache pilots that engaged the so-called news reporters. You're looking at a tiny, blurry image, while being jostled about and have a split-second to make a decision.

But alas, it is clearly just the evil imperial bastards trying to forward their cause, right? :j:

[freeman83 10]

Let's hear what those involved in the USS Liberty incident had to say, then each of us can make up their own minds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6TdhlDTog8&feature=channel_video_title

Edited January 18, 2012 by freeman83

[Dosenmais 10]

Can you tell which ship is El Quseir and which is USS Liberty?

The USS Liberty carried the US Flag but the Israeli Mirage's were unmarked.

[PELHAM 10]

Let's here what those involved in the USS Liberty incident had to say, then each of us can make up their own minds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6TdhlDTog8&feature=channel_video_title

Interesting video (full of holes and conflicting information tho) which actually lessens my interest in the USS Liberty and makes me wonder just what else was going on. In all of this I find it odd that the disposition of the forces of the Soviet Union is never mentioned by anyone. It's the one thing that no one talks about. Why is that?

I think the answer is to look at the overall strategic situation in the Eastern Mediterranean. The whole US aim throughout the Cold War was to keep the USSR Black Sea fleet bottled up. The only way out of the Med was through the Straits of Gibraltar or the Suez Canal.

The USSR was focused on obtaining control of the Suez Canal as Gibraltar was too far and too heavily defended. That is why they were so heavily involved with the surrounding Arab nations and the US had their stake in Israel.

At the same time, and unknown to the Israelis, the Soviet Union mounted a disinformation campaign pushing Egypt to join Syria against Israel. The Soviets were providing military and economic aid to both Syria and Egypt. On May 13, 1967 a Soviet parliamentary delegation visited Cairo and informed the Egyptian leaders that Israel had concentrated eleven to thirteen brigades along the Syrian border in preparation for an assault within a few days, with the intention of overthrowing the revolutionary Syrian Government. This was a complete fabrication designed by the Soviets to destabilise the Middle East. Similar false information may have been given to Egypt by the Soviets as early as May 2.

Some say the 6 Day War was precipitated by the USSR to gain control of the area. They even had plans to invade Israel and preliminary instructions were issued to commanders in the Eastern Mediterranean. Soviet photo-reconnaissance MiG-25s directly overflew the Dimona reactor in May 1967.

The Liberty was stationed very near the Suez Canal and from the flat refusal by all the senior people interviewed to talk about Operation Cyanide I think what happened that day, possibly during the entire 6 day war was more to do with the US / USSR strategic goals than anything else.

There was significant tension between the US and USSR and it is said the hotline between Moscow and Washington was activated for the 1st time since the Cuban Missile Crisis.

I think if the USS liberty was deliberately attacked (I'm not satisfied this is true, Richard Block may have his translations muddled) it was to draw the US 6th fleet into the area and prevent any action or involvement by the USSR. The actions of McNamara and Johnson were focused on the USSR not Egypt or Israel.

This is an interesting article:

How Six Day war almost led to Armageddon

New evidence of 1967 Soviet plan to invade Israel shows how close the world came to nuclear conflict

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/jun/10/israel1

---------- Post added at 06:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------

The USS Liberty carried the US Flag but the Israeli Mirage's were unmarked.

That is not at all beyond doubt, some of the Liberty crew report unmarked aircraft, others say they saw Israeli markings. All this talk of Flags is not really relevant because you can't see a flag from the distances involved in modern combat.

Here is a picture of a US ship. If I were attacking it I would not want to be this close - can you see a flag? It is there but very small. How anyone is supposed to judge the identity of the vessel based on that tiny marking I don't know?

http://www.hesslerhome.com/images/TomsNavyShips/1972-01-01%20USSRobisonDDG-12BESTPICTURE_3000x2400x144.jpg

edit: If you read and watch the info online you will note that the Israeli pilots and boat commanders frequently debate the number on the bow of the ship. That is all they could see and initially they thought they had attacked a Soviet ship. No flag is ever mentioned, they couldn't see it.

Edited January 17, 2012 by PELHAM

[walker 0]

Hi all

Israel is denying the report that it has used false flag methods to get Iran to attack America.

http://www.military.com/news/article/israel-denies-false-flag-op-against-us.html

Kind Regards walker

[eble 3]

@Pelham.

Not saying myself this was a false flag etc, but the Israeli's knew what they were attacking:

At approximately 0600 hours (all times local) on the morning of June 8, 1967 an Israeli maritime reconnaissance aircraft observer reported seeing "a US Navy cargo type ship," just outside the coverage of the Israeli coastal radar defense net, bearing the hull markings "GTR-5".[11] This report, made to Israeli naval HQ, was also forwarded immediately to the Israeli navy intelligence directorate.[12]

Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Liberty’s position and orbited the ship before returning to their bases in Israel. A total of no fewer than eight (8) such flights were made.[13]

At approximately 1050 hours, the naval observer from the early morning reconnaissance flight arrived at Israeli air force HQ and sat down with the air-naval liaison officer there. The two officers consulted Janes’ Fighting Ships and learned that the ship reported earlier in the day was USS Liberty, a United States Navy technical research ship.[14]

From 0900 hours on June 8, 1967, until the time of the attack five hours later, USS Liberty maintained a speed of approximately five knots and a generally westerly-northwesterly course.[15]

At 1400 hours, while approximately 17 miles off the Gaza coast, USS Liberty’s crew observed three surface radar contacts closing with their position at high speed. A few moments later, the bridge radar crew observed high speed aircraft passing over the surface returns on the same heading.[16]

Within a few short moments, and without any warning, Israeli fighter aircraft launched a rocket attack on USS Liberty. The aircraft made repeated firing passes, attacking USS Liberty with rockets and their internal cannons. After the first flight of fighter aircraft had exhausted their ordnance, subsequent flights of Israeli fighter aircraft continued to prosecute the attack with rockets, cannon fire, and napalm. [17]

During the air attack, USS Liberty’s crew had difficulty contacting Sixth Fleet to request assistance due to intense communications jamming[18]

Spoiler contains the last part of the independent report submitted in 2005 for War crimes.

"We, the undersigned, having undertaken an independent investigation of Israel's attack on USS Liberty, including eyewitness testimony from surviving crewmembers, a review of naval and other official records, an examination of official statements by the Israeli and American governments, a study of the conclusions of all previous official inquiries, and a consideration of important new evidence and recent statements from individuals having direct knowledge of the attack or the cover up, hereby find the following:

1. That on June 8, 1967, after eight hours of aerial surveillance, Israel launched a two-hour air and naval attack against USS Liberty, the world's most sophisticated intelligence ship, inflicting 34 dead and 173 wounded American servicemen (a casualty rate of seventy percent, in a crew of 294);

2. That the Israeli air attack lasted approximately 25 minutes, during which time unmarked Israeli aircraft dropped napalm canisters on USS Liberty's bridge, and fired 30mm cannons and rockets into our ship, causing 821 holes, more than 100 of which were rocket-size; survivors estimate 30 or more sorties were flown over the ship by a minimum of 12 attacking Israeli planes which were jamming all five American emergency radio channels;

3. That the torpedo boat attack involved not only the firing of torpedoes, but the machine-gunning of Liberty's firefighters and stretcher-bearers as they struggled to save their ship and crew; the Israeli torpedo boats later returned to machine-gun at close range three of the Liberty's life rafts that had been lowered into the water by survivors to rescue the most seriously wounded;

4. That there is compelling evidence that Israel's attack was a deliberate attempt to destroy an American ship and kill her entire crew; evidence of such intent is supported by statements from Secretary of State Dean Rusk, Undersecretary of State George Ball, former CIA director Richard Helms, former NSA directors Lieutenant General William Odom, USA (Ret.), Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, USN (Ret.), and Marshal Carter; former NSA deputy directors Oliver Kirby and Major General John Morrison, USAF (Ret.); and former Ambassador Dwight Porter, U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon in 1967;

5. That in attacking USS Liberty, Israel committed acts of murder against American servicemen and an act of war against the United States;

6. That fearing conflict with Israel, the White House deliberately prevented the U.S. Navy from coming to the defense of USS Liberty by recalling Sixth Fleet military rescue support while the ship was under attack; evidence of the recall of rescue aircraft is supported by statements of Captain Joe Tully, Commanding Officer of the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga, and Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis, the Sixth Fleet carrier division commander, at the time of the attack; never before in American naval history has a rescue mission been cancelled when an American ship was under attack;

7. That although Liberty was saved from almost certain destruction through the heroic efforts of the ship's Captain, William L. McGonagle (MOH), and his brave crew, surviving crewmembers were later threatened with "court-martial, imprisonment or worse" if they exposed the truth; and were abandoned by their own government;

8. That due to the influence of Israel's powerful supporters in the United States, the White House deliberately covered up the facts of this attack from the American people;

9. That due to continuing pressure by the pro-Israel lobby in the United States, this attack remains the only serious naval incident that has never been thoroughly investigated by Congress; to this day, no surviving crewmember has been permitted to officially and publicly testify about the attack;

10. That there has been an official cover-up without precedent in American naval history; the existence of such a cover-up is now supported by statements of Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, USN (Ret.), former Judge Advocate General of the Navy; and Captain Ward Boston, USN, (Ret.), the chief counsel to the Navy's 1967 Court of Inquiry of Liberty attack;

11. That the truth about Israel's attack and subsequent White House cover-up continues to be officially concealed from the American people to the present day and is a national disgrace;

12. That a danger to our national security exists whenever our elected officials are willing to subordinate American interests to those of any foreign nation, and specifically are unwilling to challenge Israel's interests when they conflict with American interests; this policy, evidenced by the failure to defend USS Liberty and the subsequent official cover-up of the Israeli attack, endangers the safety of Americans and the security of the United States.

WHEREUPON, we, the undersigned, in order to fulfill our duty to the brave crew of USS Liberty and to all Americans who are asked to serve in our Armed Forces, hereby call upon the Department of the Navy, the Congress of the United States and the American people to immediately take the following actions:

FIRST: That a new Court of Inquiry be convened by the Department of the Navy, operating with Congressional oversight, to take public testimony from surviving crewmembers; and to thoroughly investigate the circumstances of the attack on the USS Liberty, with full cooperation from the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency and the military intelligence services, and to determine Israel's possible motive in launching said attack on a U.S. naval vessel;

SECOND: That every appropriate committee of the Congress of the United States investigate the actions of the White House and Defense Department that prevented the rescue of the USS Liberty, thereafter threatened her surviving officers and men if they exposed the truth, and covered up the true circumstances of the attack from the American people; and

THIRD: That the eighth day of June of every year be proclaimed to be hereafter known as

USS LIBERTY REMEMBRANCE DAY, in order to commemorate USS Liberty's heroic crew; and to educate the American people of the danger to our national security inherent in any passionate attachment of our elected officials for any foreign nation.

We, the undersigned, hereby affix our hands and seals, this 22nd day of October, 2003.

Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, USN, Ret.

Former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff

General of Marines Raymond G. Davis, USMC, MOH

Former Commandant of the United States Marine Corps

Merlin Staring

Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, USN, Ret.,

Former Judge Advocate General of the Navy,

James Akins

Ambassador James Akins, Ret.,

Former United States Ambassador to Saudi Arabia"

The federal criminal code makes special provision for the prosecution of war crimes whether inside or outside the United States, committed against United States armed forces personnel:

I'll leave the people who signed the report to speak for themselves.

[hellfire257 3]

Did the Israelis not use recognition handbooks? The stack on the Liberty is angled where as it is not on the Egyptian ship and the superstructure is different. I'd have thought those are pretty prominent features. The way I see it is that somebody either screwed up royally, or it was false-flagging.

[PELHAM 10]

@ Eble

Yes I know all about that.

What you assume is that everyone in the Israeli military shares a single consciousness, the right hand knows what the left is doing and that their, control, command and communication is 100% efficient.

That doesn't apply to anyone does it? Just because some IDF Navy planes identified the ship does not mean that every single ground and air commander knew about it. Ships move, shifts change, information gets lost, people working under pressure and little sleep don't think straight - it's known as fog of war.

What is left out and continuously ignored is the reason why the jets and boats were sent out there in the 1st place. One of the ground commanders in Sinai thought he was being shelled from from a ship off shore and ordered it to be attacked. It is thought the source of the problem was an exploding Egyptian ammunition dump. Did he know all there was to know or was he focused on the ground campaign and his own problems?

You also forget that the USSR was militarily involved in this and the reason the 6th fleet was kept back by the White House was because the Kremlin had been on the phone for the 1st time since the Cuban Missile crisis threatening WW3. The USSR actually triggered the 6 Day War. If you want to analyse this problem it's sometimes necessary to look at what else was happening. You then get to understand the timeline and why events happened as they did. This avoids jumping to the wrong conclusions.

@Hellfire257

Ever tried leafing through a recognition handbook in a Mirage 3 cockpit in a combat zone? (PS Aircraft also see things from above) The IDF Navy PT boats might have had recognition books but they would have been of little use because the ship was on fire. It had been napalmed by the jets.

The PT boats struggled to identify the ship and did not attack at the 1st opportunity because they weren't sure of the target. The PT boat attack was triggered by the Liberty opening fire. The Liberty crew admit that themselves - just watch the above video and read the the other information available. The Liberty Captain initially gave orders to open fire and then changed his mind.

@both

When analysing accidents and incidents (I do this professionally by the way) it's all to easy to sit in your quiet little office in front of a large screen. What you have to remember are human factors. Stress, noise, fatigue, distractions, illness, discomfort and a thousand other things that influence the way we think and behave. I still say this was an accident - everything I have seen points to it.

If there was a cover up it was the mismanagement on the ship itself. Out of everyone involved they were the most relaxed and had the most time to think about their situation. Letting everyone sit around on deck sunbathing in the middle of a war zone wouldn't have been they way I would have commanded that day. They were obviously used to easy duty and were not prepared for the mission.

If you look at the captains future career it's obvious that deep down the Navy felt the same way. He was shifted to commanding an ammunition carrier for a few years (not as prestigious as commanding a spy ship is it?) then ended up in charge of a NROTC on a college campus. A dry land command. Sure they gave him a medal of honour (we have seen this before) but they didn't trust his command abilities again did they?

Edited January 19, 2012 by PELHAM

[nettrucker 142]

Israeli Zionists are running false flag operations since the birth of Israel. So WTF. The war on Iran has been decided a long time ago. I'm curious what will be the reason announced by the mainstream media for the war with Iran to brainwash the public opinion in the whole world. Sorry if I went slightly off topic.

Watch this and do some research

I didn't hotlinked the video to not break the forum rules.

It is well worth to watch whatever you may think of him.

Edited January 19, 2012 by nettrucker

[PELHAM 10]

David Icke????? You are aware he has problems, yes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke

I was watching the Wogan show live (1991) when he suddenly decided to announce he was the son of god (head) and we were all victims of an alien conspiracy. Entertaining evenings viewing, it's not every day that someone goes mad on TV lol. Surprising that people find him at all credible. I see he isn't still swathed in the healing powers of turquoise - did that idea not work out - hopefully he isn't still hearing voices lol?

Edited January 19, 2012 by PELHAM

[nettrucker 142]

well in that rant of his there are a lot facts that noone should close an eye upon. Do your own research on the Rothschilds you'll find out on your own.