Is The Mossad planning another USS Liberty

[walker 0]

Hi all

Getting back to the core subject of the threat of a False Flag operations by Israel and certain misguided fringe elements in US politics and peripheral quasi military organisations; in an apparent adjunct to the purposeful release of intel about past Israeli false flag operations that threatened the lives of US citizens, the US has decided to withdraw from planned joint Israeli US exercises:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/15/us-israel-usa-exercise-idUSTRE80E0Q220120115 (That is odd this and several other links with the same story available via a Google news search for the term "us israel exercise postponed" are unobtainable, nevermind added the working yahoo article though it offers a somewhat different slant on the story)

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/leaks-delayed-u-israel-war-game-reveal-fissures-223623877.html

The exercise was just announced only a month or so ago, seems the administration is really pissed at something, I guess encouraging US citizens to work against the national interest and usurping the chain of command might do that.

Apparently a certain former US asset will no longer be turning up :D

In some probably totaly unrelated matters fringe elements in US politics are becomming unusualy quiet some of this may be "accidental". Iron fist in the velvet glove as they say. Meanwhile it also appears certain more high profile individuals have had their aspirations reduced.

I believe this all comes under the general heading of "Sending a message"

Addendum

Apparently the administration wants to make sure the message is getting through and has sent the head of the Pentagon in casual dress to make sure the message is understood:

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/19/israel-and-u-s-keeping-it-casual/

Kind regards walker

Edited January 20, 2012 by walker
added addendum

[PELHAM 10]

Have you got that right Walker?

"Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak issued a request to the Pentagon last month that the planned joint exercise be postponed, a U.S. official told Yahoo News Sunday."

"To the various rumors circulating that the United States had instigated the delay, one U.S. official told Yahoo News Sunday: "b.s. It was Barak." (Ehud not Obama, easily confused)

They are delaying it till Q3/4 of 2012.

[Variable 322]

I still stand by what I said; I don't think there should be a jewish state. Secular it may be - but the idea that any religion deserves any land because they deem it holy is wrong in my eyes.

Fox, being a Jewish first means that you are a member of the Jewish people. You may be secular or religious, but still Jewish. That's how the world and the Jews themselves grasped the term "Jewish" for centuries. The religion is only one component of the Jewish identity, which is based on other, even more important cores - common history, culture, and language. For the Nazis you were a Jew even if there was any Jew blood three generations back. I am a complete atheist, and I fight for a secular Israel, but I strongly see myself as Jewish.

And Walker, I guess you admit that it's not a proven fact that Israel attacked the USS liberty on purpose. Then why did you choose a title that relates to that incident as an indisputable false flag operation? You are misleading the less-informed readers who might think that it is certain that the USS liberty was attacked deliberately. You are being irresponsible.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Variable

[Dosenmais 10]

Then why did you choose a title that relates to that incident as an indisputable false flag operation?

Don't be naive.

[Ronk67 1]

I am replying to those who speak about recognition handbooks with a direct

quote from the former Head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Thomas

Moorer. He said and I quote, "The Liberty was one of the ugliest ships in the Navy and easy to recognize". That is not an exact quote but very close to what the Admiral said. I am a survivor and I heard him say it at a reunion also. One other thing about recognition books. Most everyone I know recognizes the American Flag. It was there, and when it was shot down it was replaced by the Holiday Flag. Much larger in size. It was a clear day and nothing there to hamper the ability to recognize the US flag. I told my men not worry because the flag was up there and the IDF saw it. That was a

big mistake on my part.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Ronk67

[PELHAM 10]

"The Liberty was one of the ugliest ships in the Navy and easy to recognize".

I suggest you read back in this thread and look at the similarities between the Liberty and the Egyptian Navy's El Qusier.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2091116&postcount=39

Flags are not easily seen with the naked eye from an aircraft a long distance away. Look at the picture link at the bottom of this post:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2091246&postcount=43

When the IDF boats returned fire the Liberty had been napalmed and was covered in smoke which further reduced visibility.

@Dosenmais

That video is missing most of the facts

- Does not mention the Liberty opening fire on the IDF boats

-Jamming - all the antennas were destroyed in the initial attack - they had to rig new ones which didn't work properly.

-Unmarked aircraft - some of the crew saw markings

-Recall of the carrier planes - concern over conflict with the USSR (detailed in the above links)

-Captain of the Liberty did not change the readiness of the crew and did not prepare adequately for entering a war zone. Command failure.

-The attack did not last many hours - it started at 2 pm and Israel contacted the US at 4pm the same day to inform them of the incident.

USSR Spy Ship - That one is just made up, it never happened.

---------- Post added at 03:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:15 PM ----------

I am a survivor .

Stange then that you don't recall the ship being on fire and the decks obscured by smoke?

Edited January 20, 2012 by PELHAM

[hellfire257 3]

Recognition handbooks should be studied as well as used when required. That is at least what I would do.

[walker 0]

...And Walker, I guess you admit that it's not a proven fact that Israel attacked the USS liberty on purpose. Then why did you choose a title that relates to that incident as an indisputable false flag operation? You are misleading the less-informed readers who might think that it is certain that the USS Liberty was attacked deliberately. You are being irresponsible.

Hi all

In reply to Variable; no I do not admit it is not a proven fact that the attack on the USS Liberty was not on purpose. On the balance of evidence I believe the case that it was a failed false flag incident. The only witnesses to the incedent who have given evidense about the incident are the crew of the USS Liberty and it is their belief that it was a false flag incident. You have only to look at THEIR EVIDENCE everything else that has been presented has been pr put forward by people who were not there or just plane deception. I believe the incident to be an attempted false flag "Pearl Harbour" style event in same way as the Gulf of Tonkin was and a fair example of what the senior Israeli source mentioned as being a nice surprise earlier in the thread.

Getting back to the core of this thread

The False Flag incident that the US administration used as a message to Israel was intended to explain that the US does not take kindly to allies risking US lives or denigrating the US image via false flag operations. Further they perhaps wanted to explain that a False Flag second "Pearl Harbour" was not desired by the US administration as a pretext to an attack on Iran just in case certain peripheral US entities may have been used by Israel as cover for such an Israeli plan.

The US has sent Israel a message, one would hope it was understood.

Kind Regards walker

Edited January 20, 2012 by walker

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

The core of this thread is that the USS Liberty was a False Flag operation, and that Israel is planning on carrying out another "USS Liberty".

It wasn't a False Flag operation. They never pretended to be Soviet, Iranian, Syrian, or Egyptian ships, nor any other nationalities. The PT boats flew Israeli flags.

I don't know anything about it being planned by the US and Israeli governments, or if it was planned so that we could intervene. I know nothing about those claims, and those claims offer no facts that could make this a Flase Flag operation, so I won't talk about them.

What I do know, and what I can safely state as a fact, is that the attack on the USS Liberty does not meet the definition of a False Flag operation, therefor it is NOT a False Flag operation. I've told you this twice Walker. It's very obvious to anybody who spends 10 minutes examining the incident. It may or may not have been a conspiracy, but it was NOT a "False Flag operation". Your entire thread is based around an incorrect belief, or inaccurate facts. While you do bring up several very valid points, continuing to associate current events with the USS Liberty under the claim that that it was a False Flag operation is only making you look more like a crazy person than you normally come across as.

[STALKERGB 6]

Alex Jones Terrorstorm - USS Liberty White House-sanctioned attack, June 8, 1967

Lost interest and the first two words Alex and Jones :p even if some of the stuff he says has truth in it, just comes across as a bit of a nut job.

no I do not admit it is not a proven fact that the attack on the USS Liberty was not on purpose.

Woah! He hits a single, a double a triple negative into touch! :p So you are saying you believe that it has been proven that the attack was on purpose?

[walker 0]

Hi all

In reply to Darkhorse 1-6 you have not presented any evidence to support your argument. Where as I have presented evidense from the Crew of the USS Liberty.

That current era senior members of the Israeli military mention an attack on a US Navy asset might be in any way helpful as a pretext to an attack on Iran with Israel's history of false flag incidents would seem to be indicative of an unhelpful attitude within certain Israeli circles. That the US administration is highlighting its attitude to such activities is a message one would hope the current Israeli political leaders takes on board.

Kind regards walker

Edited January 20, 2012 by walker

[Variable 322]

Walker, please, you are making yourself look very bad here. How come an observation of an attacked crew serve as an evidence for their attackers intentions? They can only testify that they were attack (something that no one argues about), but they can know nothing about the reasons that led to them being attacked.

And about that quote of an Israeli official claiming it would be beneficial if Iran attacked the US - some would say that israel was benefitted by the 9/11 attack, does it make israel the perpetrator? Its exactly the same reasoning.

[PELHAM 10]

Where as I have presented evidense from the Crew of the USS Liberty.

They really don't have any evidence © of anything. All they can say is some IDF planes saw us and the next day some other IDF planes attacked us. From that they state that every IDF commander must have known their identity when that is obviously ridiculous. People who wander carelessly into war zones often end up getting killed unless they take proper precautions. They did nothing but carry on as normal, BBQs, fishing and getting a sun tan. They were not combat ready.

When the 1st emergency of the air attack was over the lack of a coherent plan meant they opened fire on the IDF boats which then precipitated even more deaths.

All I can see is a collection of officers who burned their careers sunbathing in a war zone and some junior ranks who are just repeating what the others have to say. Watch any of the interviews and they end up contradicting each other and most of the allegations made in this whole sorry conspiracy theory.

Certain people in the military think they are in a niche where they will never get their hands dirty. They are always the ones that whinge the loudest when things go tit's up.

Does anyone have anything concrete to add other than inuendo and circumstantial odds and ends. Any real proof at all? Please post it.

---------- Post added at 11:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 PM ----------

Recognition handbooks should be studied as well as used when required. That is at least what I would do.

What if you can't see the ship becuase it is on fire and is covered in smoke, this ship you are watching then sends an odd AA signal and opens fire? Have you read the information, looked at the time line and imagined the circumstances from each side?

Edited January 21, 2012 by PELHAM

[katipo66 94]

Yeah!! Israel would never do anything like that! :rolleyes:

[Fox '09 14]

Yeah!! Israel would never do anything like that! :rolleyes:

I respect skepticism, but there is enough evidence that there wasn't foul play here in my opinion.

[walker 0]

I respect skepticism' date=' but there is enough evidence that there wasn't foul play here in my opinion.[/quote']

Hi all

In reply to Fox '09

What proof where? Source?

Assertions are not proof. Proof is things like Witness statements. Documents Photographs videos.

Those are things I have provided.

On the core matter as to whether Israel has been repeating these false flag tactics. We know this to be so as they have had their past exploits slapped in their face by the US administration, generaly such a public slap especially where there are synchronised releases from multiple sources tend to be to send a message. Breaking off planned events and sending an envoy are spankings because of some major infringement of the relationship. The more senior the envoy the more forceful the message being sent.

Kind regards walker

Edited January 21, 2012 by walker

[PELHAM 10]

I think you are a bit confused about what a spanking looks like Walker?

This link you provided certainly isn't one, it looks more like a false flag?

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/19/israel-and-u-s-keeping-it-casual/

It's a handshake not a spank? Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Martin Dempsey, chats with his Israeli counterpart Benny Gantz.

This is what a spanking looks like:

U.S. considers closing its embassy in Syria as protests persist. (same website)

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/01/20/world/meast/syria-unrest/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Closing embassy = spanking.

Edited January 21, 2012 by PELHAM

[Variable 322]

Walker address my comments and pelham's as to what constitutes as a proof, or stop this foolish argument saying that the crew of the liberty observations are a proof that the attack was not a mistake.