God

[WKK Gimbal 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SpaceAlex @ June 08 2002,11:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 08 2002,10:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What are you drunk? Or just a hardore Scientologist?

I really hope that those were all jokes on your side.<span id='postcolor'>

No, i'm not drunk. That's what i think. Don't read that if you think this is stupid. I know it's not. Stupid are things people think about God.<span id='postcolor'>

Then why do you write it like it's facts, Mr. Knowitall?

To me, what you write is words of a lunatic.

If you can make statements, so can I:

There is no God

Man is just another type of animal

The universe is cold and empty

We are just insignificant details in a gigantic cosmos of chaos

When we die, we are lost forever, dissolved and consumed by maggots.

[Hilandor 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ June 07 2002,13:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There is no God

Man is just another type of animal

The universe is cold and empty

We are just insignificant details in a gigantic cosmos of chaos

When we die, we are lost forever, dissolved and consumed by maggots.<span id='postcolor'>

yes my sentiments exactly

why do we think were so special that we come from a god??

what makes us think were better than the other species on the planet???

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

"why do we think were so special that we come from a god??

 

what makes us think were better than the other species on the planet???"

Just arrogance , an inability to accept the essential pointlessness of our lives, a yearning for something more than the purely tangible.

I see no evidence that we are anything more than specially adapted mammals, our evolved predisposition for high self consciousness (being conducive to survival) leaving us apparently alone in the cold void

(but we search for shapes in the shadows and meaning in the fall of the dice)

[SpaceAlex 0]

Listen. I belive in everything i said and you belive in everything u said. You have to belive in something. Even if it sounds stupid. I think that people are not similar to animals and you think we're just like animals. Well. That's how it is.

It's pointless to even talk about this. Everyone belives in something.

Case closed!

[WKK Gimbal 0]

you're right. It's like discussing what is good or bad music. No one could ever win.

[Guest]

Well, there is the little thing as a common proof. If we say that we accept that everybody has their own beliefs and religion, we are not gettin anywhere in a real sense. Religion is only meanignful if more people believe it. Then we can say that we build up a common trait. If everybody believes whatever they want .. then just.. whatever...

What I think is a problem is that religion sticks its finger where it doesn't belong. To start talking about god being in the X:th dimension and similar things are just rediculous. Those are arbitrary mathematical and physical constructions that we use to simplify our calculations and have no relevance outside the realms of physics.

[nordin dk 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ June 08 2002,15:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">you're right. It's like discussing what is good or bad music. No one could ever win.<span id='postcolor'>

And yet the battle rages...

[Hardliner 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ June 08 2002,12:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'll start with the aliens

I don't believe in aliens (because i haven't seen any yet, give proof and i'll be happy to believe you), but i'm not saying that there couldn't be any aliens somewhere in the universe.

The universe is soooo huge that it's very possible that there are aliens out there.

If ppl talk about aliens everybody thinks about "ETs", little human look-a-likes that have eyes, a head, 2 legs, 2 arms, a body, they can talk and all that stuff.

Why does everybody look at them like an organic thing that looks almost exactly like us humans, that's just bs.

I also think that we spend waaaaaay too much money while searching for aliens, the use of radars is just pathetic, the "aliens" should be able to build machines to get the signals, they must be able to reply something and all that stuff.

This is just what i said, ppl think that aliens are just like us, in my opinion that's totally wrong.<span id='postcolor'>

I believe there is life out there. Look at the sky at night you see all them stars? You really think there would be all that out there if it was all empty? You really think the universe is here just for us to go out and explore? whats the point if theres noone out there? As for the term aliens and "ET" I don't think thats the right words for it. There might not be any proof of life but it seems believeable to me. The thought of only humans being around kind of seems laughable when theres a massive universe filled with countless galaxies. Humans like to think their all alone and the top race in space. Alot of people might be dissapointed to find that they are the most primitive race if this is found to be true, it might not I'm not making any perminant statement just suggesting.

As for life out there responding to our search for them do you really think that intelligent life out there is going to make contact with a race that kills itself, fights amoung itself and primitive compared to them? If I came across a race like that I think the best thing to do is AVOID them at all costs.

[Nephilimn 0]

On the concept of God, all of us, regardless of culture, have been forcefully spoon-fed a paradigm theology from the moment we became conscience. We must believe and worship in - insert Diety here - or else fire and brimstone..., you all know the drill.

What the organized religions have done is erode away the fabric of our own being - creating a simple God in the skies being, being the end-all answer to mankinds questions about himself, his mind, the world and universe around him. Also not a bad way to fill coffers.

This doesn't mean that we don't have a spiritual side or that we are just some animal in the cosmos of chaos (to borrow from an earlier thread). Quantum physics, psychology, physiology have just begun to scrape the surface of how our minds - conscious and subconscious - and the universe work. Even in chaos there is measurable order.

Does God exist? Physically, no. But a Higher human creator has been posited for so long throughout the history of the human species he is 'burnt' into our collective consciousnesses, a Jungian archetype that all of us can't quite shake so easily - a figure the vast majority of the human race needs to bring meaning to their lives, the easy way.

<span style='color:green'>It is easier to cope with a bad conscience than with a bad reputation. - Friedrich Nietzsche</span>

[advocatexxx 0]

denoir, the main focus of superstring theory is to blend the elements of quantum mechanics with those of relativity. To establish unified basis in which gravity works on a quantum level. This has been something science was unable to do for the past 50 years, and only now they may finally have begun to break the ice.

I guess the reason we "imagine" aliens to be somewhat like humnas is because we can relate to them easier. Sci-fi flicks often portray aliens who reason with the same principles. Who have similar morals and a way of life. This may be far from the truth, though one may speculate that if there is extra-terrestrial life out there it is quite possibly very diverse.

A race that spawned on a desert planet with little moisture would posess characteristics which had made it adapt to that environment. Same goes for a lifeform who has spawned on a planet full of oceans and little dry ground. Other planets may be hospitable for life but may have different atmospheric structure with less/more pressure.

One day, and that day may never come, we will make contact with such species, and there is no doubt that both sides will take precautions. Those aliens we meet may also have never met another race, so it is unlikely they will open up their arms (if indeed they have any).

The establishment of a positive stance, exchange of mathematical information, alphabet, meaning of words will no doubt take years if not decades. Then again, it may take only a day. If we were to discover a new culture with a completely foreign language on some tropical island we can see ourselves making contact quite easily.

Meeting an alien race may be this easy, though it can also be just the contrary.

What if there are two separate species living on that alien world ? One in the sea and one on the land ? What if they're in a state of war.

I can think of about a billion reasons why the first contact would go wrong rather than right. But then again, that may be my imperfect human thinking.

[Renagade 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hilandor @ June 08 2002,12:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ June 07 2002,13:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There is no God

Man is just another type of animal

The universe is cold and empty

We are just insignificant details in a gigantic cosmos of chaos

When we die, we are lost forever, dissolved and consumed by maggots.<span id='postcolor'>

yes  my sentiments exactly  

why do we think were so special that we come from a god??

 

what makes us think were better than the other species on the planet???<span id='postcolor'>

What makes us any worse

[Aculaud 0]

I have no clue as to where this conversation has been thus far, so this may be a little rude, but i'll just say this.

There has never been any proof that a god exists, no matter what any religion says. Christians think the bible is proof enough, but first off, they dont even know who wrote the bible or what his\her motive was, and second, the bible has been re-written and revised countless times over the years. I dont know what anyone else thinks but something so convoluted is no proof to me. If you have something like an out-of-body\near-death experience, you may attribute that to whatever you want, but we dont even know what god\a god is supposed to be like. how are we to recognize one in that situation?

As for humans being nothing more than other animas, we are indeed nothing but mammels, not to sound too cliche'd. Its true, we have different forms of communication, and we think we're much more intelligent and advanced, but we are still mostly water based life forms, with hearts that pump blood, brains that think, and diggestive systems that extract nutrients from our food just like most other animals, with the exception of some insects that lack brains (Worms, etc.).

I personally do not think we are the most advanced species on the planet. My theory behind this comes from a completely different direction than others. Look at all the things we have created over time to help us survive. All the advances we've made, all the inventions we've come up with. Everything from structures of various sizes to keep us warm and dry, to centuries of medical advances, to advanced sciences to find out how we work and fix things that are wrong with us. All these things we've needed to come up with in order to prolong our own life while EVERY OTHER SPECIES on the planet is just fine co-existing with nature the way it is. Now whos more advanced? You may speak of the endangered species list and why we're not on it and attribute that to all the advances i spoke of and more, but whats the ratio of species on the endangered list that are there because of us to the ones who are there because of nature? You cant find the answer for everything in metaphysics, some species, no matter how advanced, just go extinct sometimes. Its called nature.

My conclusion, the smart man (or woman) is the one who stays open minded.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (advocatexxx @ June 09 2002,00:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">denoir, the main focus of superstring theory is to blend the elements of quantum mechanics with those of relativity.  To establish unified basis in which gravity works on a quantum level.  <span id='postcolor'>

You put too much value in the superstring theory. As I said, there are at least 20 other Unified Field Theories that are as plausible as the string theory and are all about unifying the quantum world with the classical. The fact is still that it doesn't work. Superstring theory is today not compatible with the general theory of relativity. It can't account even for the masses of the elementary particles and much less macroscopic masses. It also still hasn't given a solution to the random<->causal dilemma.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This has been something science was unable to do for the past 50 years, and only now they may finally have begun to break the ice.

<span id='postcolor'>

Make that more like 80 years.

Superstring theory is from the '70. Very little has happend the last 30 years. Physicists are leaving it for other theories today.

In short: we need a better model. String theory was nice out of a mathematical perspective, but had obviously little to do with the physical realities of the world. It has been an interesting failure. The theory is sound from a quantum mechanical view. It fits nicely with the Schrödinger wave-equation. It still has a hard time working with classical theories (relativity, electrodynamics etc).

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Renagade @ June 09 2002,05:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What makes us any worse  <span id='postcolor'>

The fact that we're the only species to singlehandedly rape the whole planet the way we're doing perhaps? But seriously, if you go by Christianity, only humans have souls. why would God deny all his other creations from paradise?

[Gollum1 0]

Okay, this is anti-religion, just so you know.

In the Western world, 94% of those 95% who are religious only THINK they are christians.

They think that there is some great guy (and he´s always a guy, never a woman) who helps everybody, and they can get to heaven if they go to church once a year. COME ON!

If you would actually read the bible and follow every rule in it (which you are supposed to do, according to every priest alive) you cannot use any plastic products, think a SINGLE sexual tought about anyone but your wife (did I mention christianity is sexistic) and basically, have no life.

Humans created God because humans are afraid of death.

If a bomb blows up and kills some people, eeeevil terrorists have planted it and they must be destroyed in the fires of mount Doom etc. etc.

If an elite police demolitions squad had disarmed that bomb: "PRAISE THE LORD!!!!! He saved us from those eeeeevil terrorists!" And two blocks away, a little girl is killed in a car crash....

[SpaceAlex 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ June 08 2002,12:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To me, what you write is words of a lunatic.<span id='postcolor'>

Ok. I'll take that as an offense.

I could say the same thing for you then

[WKK Gimbal 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 09 2002,06:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It fits nicely with the Schrödinger wave-equation. It still has a hard time working with classical theories (relativity, electrodynamics etc).<span id='postcolor'>

But why should Einstein necessarily be right? Relativity was supposedly based on the static universe model, which has been discarded later in favour of the expanding universe. So if the whole foundation of relativity has crumbled, how can the house still stand?

to advocatexxx: I wrote that line because you where writing all your words, as if they where the known and proven facts. If someone said they believed in aliens, I'd say fine by me. But if someone said they knew that aliens existed, I'd call them a lunatic...

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ June 09 2002,11:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 09 2002,06:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It fits nicely with the Schrödinger wave-equation. It still has a hard time working with classical theories (relativity, electrodynamics etc).<span id='postcolor'>

But why should Einstein necessarily be right? Relativity was   supposedly based on the static universe model, which has been discarded later in favour of the expanding universe. So if the whole foundation of relativity has crumbled, how can the house still stand?<span id='postcolor'>

The theory of relativity does not assume that space is static. The special theory of relativity has nothing to do with the form of the universe. The general theory of relativity sets a foundation for explaining the form of the universe, but doesn't depend on if the universe is expanding or static. Actually the general theory of relativity explains why an expanding/pulsating universe is possible. Einstin was first a supporter of the static universe idea, but changed later.

Both special and general relativity has been confirmed experimentally countless of times. So, according to our physical modes and as far as we know both special and general relativity are physical facts.

[WKK Gimbal 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 09 2002,13:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ June 09 2002,11:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 09 2002,06:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It fits nicely with the Schrödinger wave-equation. It still has a hard time working with classical theories (relativity, electrodynamics etc).<span id='postcolor'>

But why should Einstein necessarily be right? Relativity was   supposedly based on the static universe model, which has been discarded later in favour of the expanding universe. So if the whole foundation of relativity has crumbled, how can the house still stand?<span id='postcolor'>

The theory of relativity does not assume that space is static. The special theory of relativity has nothing to do with the form of the universe. The general theory of relativity sets a foundation for explaining the form of the universe, but doesn't depend on if the universe is expanding or static. Actually the general theory of relativity explains why an expanding/pulsating universe is possible. Einstin was first a supporter of the static universe idea, but changed later.

Both special and general relativity has been confirmed experimentally countless of times. So, according to our physical modes and as far as we know both special and general relativity are physical facts.<span id='postcolor'>

ok, I didn't know that.

[cybrid 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Tovarish Posted on June 09 2002,00:57

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Quote (Renagade @ June 09 2002,059)

What makes us any worse

The fact that we're the only species to singlehandedly rape the whole planet the way we're doing perhaps? But seriously, if you go by Christianity, only humans have souls. why would God deny all his other creations from paradise? <span id='postcolor'>

Do you know of another species that could pull it off? The universe is ours to do with as we wish.

[WKK Gimbal 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (cybrid @ June 09 2002,14:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Tovarish Posted on June 09 2002,00:57

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Quote (Renagade @ June 09 2002,059)

What makes us any worse  

The fact that we're the only species to singlehandedly rape the whole planet the way we're doing perhaps? But seriously, if you go by Christianity, only humans have souls. why would God deny all his other creations from paradise? <span id='postcolor'>

Do you know of another species that could pull it off? The universe is ours to do with as we wish.<span id='postcolor'>

so you think that humanity's crave for power and dominance is a strenght? I think not.

[Hardliner 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The universe is ours to do with as we wish<span id='postcolor'>

Really? How do you plan on taking over the universe? With NASA's technology? Thats laughable. Still it would be interesting to see humanity spread out amoung the stars claiming this and that all of a sudden to bump into a highly advanced race and end up getting polvarised.

It is also my belief that because we have not been contacted yet (as stated by someone before) certain life out there would probably be studying humanity, all its wars and global problems, its societies as well as people and indeed may find humanity interesting if slightly puzzling. Maybe with studying us they realise that its a good idea to keep humanity pinned on this rock and keep us in the dark about whats really out there in the universe.

Keep in mind I'm not saying I know all this its simply what I think about. The more I think about this kind of thing the more sence it makes. To me anyway.

[nordin dk 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ June 09 2002,11:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If someone said they believed in aliens, I'd say fine by me. But if someone said they knew that aliens existed, I'd call them a lunatic...<span id='postcolor'>

This is also interesting because it relates to the crux of the debate.

I tell you now that I have a pen on my table right next to me.

I cannot prove it to you, yet I know it does because my senses tells me it is there.

You could easily call me a lunatic, because you have no way of telling if it is true or not, and you have no reason to believe me.

All you can rely on, is probability.

(there's a good chance I'm right, because a computer is normally on a desk, and there are often pens lying around on desks)

and then belief and religion becomes a matter of calculating probabilities.

No,

Religion is a matter of choosing to believe.

[WKK Gimbal 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hardliner @ June 09 2002,17:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The universe is ours to do with as we wish<span id='postcolor'>

Really? How do you plan on taking over the universe? With NASA's technology? Thats laughable. Still it would be interesting to see humanity spread out amoung the stars claiming this and that all of a sudden to bump into a highly advanced race and end up getting polvarised.

It is also my belief that because we have not been contacted yet (as stated by someone before) certain life out there would probably be studying humanity, all its wars and global problems, its societies as well as people and indeed may find humanity interesting if slightly puzzling. Maybe with studying us they realise that its a good idea to keep humanity pinned on this rock and keep us in the dark about whats really out there in the universe.

Keep in mind I'm not saying I know all this its simply what I think about. The more I think about this kind of thing the more sence it makes. To me anyway.<span id='postcolor'>

I've always imagined that if some superior alien race bumped into us on their way to somewhere else, they'd ignore us completely, as we'd be totally uninteresting to anyone but ourselves.

[Hardliner 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ June 09 2002,17:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I've always imagined that if some superior alien race bumped into us on their way to somewhere else, they'd ignore us completely, as we'd be totally uninteresting to anyone but ourselves.  <span id='postcolor'>

Probably be interested in watching us fight ourselves these bloody so called "religous wars" but yeah thats exactly what they would do, stay away from humanity or make efforts to ensure that we never venture out into space. That last part is really the only thing I am interested in