God

[nordin dk 0]

no

[nordin dk 0]

Here's the explanation for it all:

[Guest]

lol lol nordin, not bad! I really needed a good laugh after that depressing football game...

[nordin dk 0]

You shouldn't be too depressed, you played well, died an honourable death.

And Senegal was a worthy opponent, theyve played well from the first game.

[Ruud van Nistelrooy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bonfire @ June 15 2002,06:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ah interesting thread.

anywho, heres my take... i should point out though, i do not have "all the answers", i'm just tossing in my 2 cents

i do believe that there is a God.  And i believe that he created life and earth and such.

Things like a strand of DNA for example, i think that for something that exact, that fine tuned, can only be created by a loving and dedicated creator.   I think that for humans to come this far, to have done so much more than any other species in the history of time (and in such a short period of time) is not a fluke.  

And for such a wide variety of life to come from a random mixing of amino acids and protens and such just seems so unbelieveable.  I have a friend whos a sold atheist, and she believes in evolution, and thinks that 100,000 years ago, a sudden change happend in "our" brains that made us more intelligent.  and to her, the notion of a God was very far fetched.  Not unlike the notion of a sudden change in our brains is to someone who is a creationist.

I believe that God has given us freewill (i figure because its more satisfying to be worshiped by people who want to rather than people who have to), and has given everyone a purpose.  I can't imagine that life evolved for a billion years just so i can waist time in from of my pc.  

anyway, i'll leave it at that for now <span id='postcolor'>

I believe in evolution because not only does it sound mkore beleivable than the whole ''This Magical Bloke created all life from one of his ribs or something (even though he isn't a physical being, or at least there is no evidence for him being a physical being)'', but there is actually evidence that evolution is the way we are today.

Look at the way animals adapt to their surroundings and develop resistances to certain things - do they develop such things because god feels they should have a better chance of living?

The humans didn't just one day suffer a brain thing and become more intelligent. Look at ice men - most of their actions came from instinct. From instinct came learning - learning intellegence. Then look how human attitudes have changed over these few hundred years. Used to be just one fantastic slaughter. [people craved violence and had a great time going around stomping on other people. Now we have an increased number of humanitarians. No longer can a normal bloke wander down the street kneecapping people for fun because of such pacifists.

And why is the idea of a sudden brain change causing someone to change? Look at vietnam - loads of yanks came home after that feeling way different, and everyone who went to vietnam just blathers on all day about how terrible/great it was and how they won the war etc... and much the same for all wars. Look at serial killers - often the mad rampages are a result of depression, anger, frustration, boredom whatever... these things change the state of mind of a person.

If indeed there is a god, who has power over all the changes of society and people, then he is a pretty shitty god. Why won't he stop wars or murder or crime. Or at least, why doesn't he stop these things for the people who do dedicate their lives to him. The overall conclusion being if there is a god he doesn;t give a fuck about the human race or this planet and probably takes pleasure in creating wars and death and the expansion of pop music. He won't stop these things, although he may have the power to do this. If this is the case, why is it people go to church all the time to suck up to the fucker. A person who hands over a big clump of fifties to the pope or whatever still stands the chance of beiung killed or raped or ruined, just as any person in the world stands this chance as society becomes worse and worse. Likewise, a ri8ch yank living in manhatten may pray to god everyday and still be rich and shag beautiful women, but the poor bloke with the starving kids and malaria praying to god will recieve fuck all, except a belief that he will go to heaven if he worships every day - which may be the good thing about religion. But the fact is, he will have a shitty life regardless of how hopeful he is of going to heaven. God will not cure his disease, god will not feed his children, god will not give him money. Since this guy will have a terrible life he will pray to go to heaven and therefore pray basically for death - which ultimatly means religion can cause people to belief they are expendible in life. Which is exactly the belief suicide bombers, killers, poor people... have of themselves - religion will amplify this feeling which in some cases will result in the further downfall of society where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

I'm sure if god is as all powerful, and as much as a nice bloke as people think of him, the world would not be experiancing poverty, starvation, war or big brother. Its just 50% (religious people) of the people in the world believe he will do something about it all, and 50% (like me) do not believe he will do anything about it. The fact religion brings hope and beliefs to pewople doesn't mean anything. A suicide bomber will go out and kill 50 people with his faith and hope in religion still fully intact. The faith and the hope will not cause society to get better. If anything it will make it worse.

imho of course.

[WKK Gimbal 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 16 2002,06:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">rotflmao! i wish you good luck Gimbal in winning this argument <span id='postcolor'>

That ain't gonna happen. I'm just trying to make sure no one else does either

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Your don't want anybody to win the argument? Why? I mean really how can you not believe there is a God? There is so mcuh evidence of His excistance.

[Guest]

I asked you to provide some, but you didn't. You just keep repeating that you are right and that you know that you are right.

[WKK Gimbal 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ June 16 2002,19:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Your don't want anybody to win the argument? Why? I mean really how can you not believe there is a God? There is so mcuh evidence of His excistance.<span id='postcolor'>

You're a broken record, kid

[Guest]

I must admit that I still like his posts though. Always so nice and friendly, and yet so fundamentalist at the same time

[advocatexxx 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ June 16 2002,13:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Your don't want anybody to win the argument? Why? I mean really how can you not believe there is a God? There is so mcuh evidence of His excistance.<span id='postcolor'>

I don't think this debate is about providing proofs or seeking the individual to win a certain argument. It's more about discussing the different types of religion and the true nature of God. Exchanging separate points of view has a reward all of its own. This isn't a competition.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Like I have said before just look around you. There is no possible way that every thing could fit perfectly into place without a divine being to make it that way. Look at the life of a dedicated Christian, they have a life with God's plan in it, which makes that life all the more prosperous.

[WKK Gimbal 0]

This man was a Christian. As are the priests convicted of child abuse. Prosperous indeed...

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ June 16 2002,23:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

Oh my god, it's Salieri! He has come to kill Mozart

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Well the priest incident was horrible, and all thsoe priest should be thrown in jail for the rest if their lives, but God still forgives them if they ask him too, that is if they really mean it. Christians make mistakes too, and the child abuse was a very bad one, and just becuase those priest say they are Christians don't mean they are. I am a Protestan, to be more specific a Bapstist, so I do not know a whole lot about how the Catholics practice their faith.

[nordin dk 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 16 2002,19:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I asked you to provide some, but you didn't. You just keep repeating that you are right and that you know that you are right. <span id='postcolor'>

Can you proove his non-existance?

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nordin dk @ June 16 2002,23:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 16 2002,19:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I asked you to provide some, but you didn't. You just keep repeating that you are right and that you know that you are right. <span id='postcolor'>

Can you proove his non-existance?<span id='postcolor'>

No, of course I can't. But I don't have too. They are the ones that come with the theory of a God. So it is up to them to proove it.

That there is a God according to the Christian belief is not hard finding evidence against. Mostly because of many inconsistencies in the bible itself.

[nordin dk 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 16 2002,23:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nordin dk @ June 16 2002,23:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Can you proove his non-existance?<span id='postcolor'>

No, of course I can't. But I don't have too. They are the ones that come with the theory of a God. So it is up to them to proove it.

That there is a God according to the Christian belief is not hard finding evidence against. Mostly because of many inconsistencies in the bible itself.<span id='postcolor'>

But then you mistake the bible for the God, a crime of which you yourself accuse fundamentalists of comitting. You say: the bible is not God, and yet you say, God does not exist cause the bible doesn't make sense.

Again, I repeat myself, proof is irrelevant to the believer, and irrelevant for belief itself. You need not proove to believe.

That irritates the scientific mind, and the logicians mind.

When you say "They are the ones that come up with the theory of God" you are in reality pointing your finger at mankind, not at Duke_of_Ray or his peers.

Sometimes it may appear we came up with the idea of God to no avail, for the power that this particular idea (meme if you like) has over the mind is overwhelming, and the easiest thing is to abuse it.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

What would those inconsistances be?

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 15 2002,20:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There are documented examples of random biological mutations.<span id='postcolor'>

I do this for a living. Playing god sure is fun.

[advocatexxx 0]

So you engineered the seedless watermelon ey ?

I love you man !

[nordin dk 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ June 17 2002,01:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What would those inconsistances be?<span id='postcolor'>

I'm not sure you want to get into that Duke_of_Ray.

B.t.w. Do you accept that there can be another truth for another person? That your belief of the existance of God does not necessarily apply to others?

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nordin dk @ June 17 2002,00:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When you say "They are the ones that come up with the theory of God" you are in reality pointing your finger at mankind, not at Duke_of_Ray or his peers.

Sometimes it may appear we came up with the idea of God to no avail, for the power that this particular idea (meme if you like) has over the mind is overwhelming, and the easiest thing is to abuse it.<span id='postcolor'>

The meme of religion is so overwhelming, because there is an inbuilt biological mechanism in human brain for "religious experience". A christian receiving the bread and wine and a buddhist monk meditating display the same (easily measurable) changes in their brain. Or an atheist admiring the beauty of the sea or rolling mountains also might display the same reaction.

Funnily enough, this measurability proves that there is no true religion. You only need to truly believe in something to get the gratification of religion, by having your brain fire up the age-old response.

[nordin dk 0]

But what is the biological benefit of this response?

It can't be a plus that you stop to admire the scenery while being chased around the savannah by a flock of angry lions

[Oligo 1]

Ok, I'm pretty sure that flight-fight instincts override any religious instincts. And the question about the biological benefit of this is a good one. Maybe it is needed to prevent tendencies of a developed brain to commit suicide. You probably have noticed that most of the deeply religious people are very serene.