First "Community Patch"

nightsta1ker · April 2, 2011

Perhaps it's a little immature to call it a "patch", but after doing alot of tweaking and testing, and with alot of help from community members like leftskidlow, heli_flying, dirtydeeds(ziggy) and others, I have been able to get the Light variant to be very "plausible". I would say there are still quite a few things I would like to improve on, but alot of people are asking me for my current tweaks. I figure, if I can get this out there then everyone can see for themselves what is possible by tweaking the FD. As things improve, more updates can be posted.

So with that said, this by no means is a "total fix" for some of the issues that us pilots are seeing, but I feel good enough about the flight model now that I could call it somewhat "authentic".

Here's a list of what is improved:

Control lag removed

pedal responsiveness improved

ground effect reduced

lower collective range increased for better descent rates/ quickstops.

Helicopter no longer feels "light on the skids" when on the ground with full down collective.

Here's what I would still like to see fixed:

Faster rate of roll/pitch/yaw (theres no lag now, but it does not respond as fast as I would like)

More realistic engine and torque performance (b101_uk has had a breakthrough in this area, though I have not seen the results yet)

Strange right roll tendencies that occur in a right bank with collective input changes (I still don't know what is causing this, but I know it's not realistic because it is keeping me from executing manuevers I have done in real helicopters).

Anyone with any improvements they would like to add to this, or have viable, constructive suggestions to make this better, please share.

Check the "spoiler" for the new .XML. For the newbies who don't know what to do with this, please read this thread for instructions http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=126795

<!--

REFERENCES

[1] Technical Description.pdf

[2] Wikipedia

[3] Field manual

[4] Technical manual

[5] Blueprints

-->

<?xml version="1.0"?>

<!-- Estimation

Calculated after the ration R_mass = (empty weight of dauphin) / (empty weight of MD500) ratio = (2271)/(722) = 3.1454293629.

Ixx = 11000/R_Mass = 3497

Iyy = 2704/R_Mass = 859

Ixx = 9900/R_Mass = 3147

-->

<!--[2]

Empty Weight=722 kg

Max Takeoff Weight=1610 kg

Any value between empty weight and max takeoff weight is valid.

-->

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90 1.30

100 1.05

1000 1.05

</Low_a1>

<Medium_a1 a1 ="0">

-1000 0.37

0 0.37

10 0.86

20 1.69

30 1.76

40 1.82

50 1.88

60 1.91

70 1.97

80 1.74

90 1.49

100 1.24

1000 1.24

</Medium_a1>

<High_a1 a1 ="6">

-1000 0.72

0 0.72

10 1.25

20 1.76

30 1.82

40 1.89

50 1.97

60 2.03

70 2.10

80 1.99

90 1.80

100 1.43

1000 1.43

</High_a1>

</MainRotorDownwash>

-1000 0

-180 0

-150 0.61

-140 0.69

-130 0.69

-120 0.61

-110 0.46

-100 0.24

-90 0

-80 -0.24

-70 -0.46

-60 -0.61

-50 -0.69

-40 -0.69

-30 -0.61

0 0

30 0.61

40 0.69

50 0.69

60 0.61

70 0.46

80 0.24

90 0

100 -0.24

110 -0.46

120 -0.61

130 -0.69

140 -0.69

150 -0.61

180 0

1000 0

</LiftCurve>

-1000 0.0

-180 0.0

-140 0.42

-130 0.56

-120 0.71

-110 0.84

-100 0.93

-90 0.96

-80 0.93

-70 0.84

-60 0.71

-50 0.56

-40 0.42

0 0.008

40 0.42

50 0.56

60 0.71

70 0.84

80 0.93

90 0.96

100 0.93

110 0.84

120 0.71

130 0.56

140 0.42

180 0.0

1000 0.0

</DragCurve>

</AerodynamicFeatures>

</HorizontalStabilizerRight>

</Geometry>

</HorizontalStabilizerLeft>

</Geometry>

-1000 0.95

-30 0.95

-25 0.84

-20 0.75

-15 0.68

-10 0.63

-5 0.61

0 0.59

5 0.61

10 0.63

15 0.68

20 0.75

25 0.84

30 0.95

1000 0.95

</Sideslip>

</DynamicPressureRatio>

<Low_a1 a1 ="-6">

-1000 0

0 0

10 -0.18

20 0.04

30 0.27

40 0.49

50 0.73

60 0.95

70 1.18

80 1.41

90 0.73

100 0

1000 0

</Low_a1>

<Medium_a1 a1 ="0">

-1000 -0.36

0 -0.36

10 -0.55

20 -0.18

30 0.11

40 0.33

50 0.55

60 0.75

70 0.96

80 1.18

90 0.60

100 0

</Medium_a1>

<High_a1 a1 ="6">

-1000 -0.51

0 -0.51

10 -0.73

20 -0.67

30 -0.29

40 0.04

50 0.29

60 0.55

70 0.78

80 1.02

90 0.49

100 0

1000 0

</High_a1>

</MainRotorInplanewash>

<Low_a1 a1 ="-6">

-1000 -0.12

0 -0.12

10 0.74

20 1.67

30 1.69

40 1.73

50 1.75

60 1.78

70 1.80

80 1.57

90 1.32

100 1.06

1000 1.06

</Low_a1>

<Medium_a1 a1 ="0">

-1000 0.37

0 0.37

10 0.87

20 1.71

30 1.78

40 1.84

50 1.90

60 1.93

70 1.99

80 1.76

90 1.51

100 1.26

1000 1.26

</Medium_a1>

<High_a1 a1 ="6">

-1000 0.72

0 0.72

10 1.26

20 1.78

30 1.84

40 1.92

50 1.99

60 2.05

70 2.12

80 2.01

90 1.82

100 1.45

1000 1.45

</High_a1>

</MainRotorDownwash>

-180 0

-170 0.34

-160 0.74

-150 0.80

-140 0.72

-130 0.57

-120 0.43

-110 0.29

-100 0.15

-90 0

-80 -0.15

-70 -0.29

-60 -0.43

-50 -0.57

-40 -0.72

-30 -0.80

-25 -0.80

-20 -0.74

0 0

20 0.74

25 0.80

30 0.80

40 0.72

50 0.57

60 0.43

70 0.29

80 0.15

90 0

100 -0.15

110 -0.29

120 -0.43

130 -0.57

140 -0.72

150 -0.80

160 -0.74

170 -0.34

180 0

</LiftCurve>

-1000 0.0

-180 0.0

-140 0.42

-130 0.56

-120 0.71

-110 0.84

-100 0.93

-90 0.96

-80 0.93

-70 0.84

-60 0.71

-50 0.56

-40 0.42

0 0.008

40 0.42

50 0.56

60 0.71

70 0.84

80 0.93

90 0.96

100 0.93

110 0.84

120 0.71

130 0.56

140 0.42

180 0.0

1000 0.0

</DragCurve>

</AerodynamicFeatures>

</VerticalStabilizer>

</StabilizersAndWings>

<GeneralConfiguration gearExtensionTime="3" gearDragCoefficient="0" gearReferenceArea="0"

maxSteerableGearDeflection="80" steerableGearSpeedCorrectionFactor="0.0"/>

</Suspension>

</Wheel>

</GroundContact>

</Suspension>

</Wheel>

</GroundContact>

</Suspension>

</Wheel>

</GroundContact>

</Suspension>

</Wheel>

</GroundContact>

</Suspension>

</Wheel>

</GroundContact>

</GroundContacts>

</GenHeli600>

jedra · March 7, 2011

Thanks nightsta1ker, will try this later on today. Good effort. If I comment, unfortunately it can only be from the point of view of a non-pilot - I can't comment on realism. It is probably good to see how us flightless birds are coping with the changes though!

EDIT ---> Is this for the 400 or 600 or both?

Edited November 19, 2011 by Jedra

twisted · March 1, 2005

well done! downloading to test now. pretty curious to see the diff.

thanks !

Panther353 · October 28, 2011

Scott,

I'm supposed to be remodeling the powder room not testing helicopters in ToH. You're gonna get me in big trouble :)

Chris

hon0 · October 27, 2011

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/37999001/TAG_TestFM.pbo

//Right click save as

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\take on helicopters\@TESTFM\addons\HERE

Give your feedback to night !

Edited November 21, 2011 by hon0

jedra · March 7, 2011

Scott,
I'm supposed to be remodeling the powder room not testing helicopters in ToH. You're gonna get me in big trouble :)

Chris

I have no idea what a powder room is, but I hope it involves explosives rather than something girlie ;-) Either way this is much more important!

Panther353 · October 28, 2011

I have no idea what a powder room is, but I hope it involves explosives rather than something girlie ;-) Either way this is much more important!

Tiny little bathroom just off the kitchen with just toliet, sink, and mirror. Nickname is from the purpose, it where the ladies go to powder their nose.

Isaac · October 1, 2011

Hi nightsta1ker, leftskidlow, heli_flying, dirtydeeds(ziggy), b101_uk and others,

Appreciated, very much appreciated... I will try it today.

BIS rocks, BIS + Community rocks even further! :yay:

Thanks a lot! :)

PS: impatiently waiting for the second BIS patch for TOH... :deal:

jedra · March 7, 2011

Tiny little bathroom just off the kitchen with just toliet, sink, and mirror. Nickname is from the purpose, it where the ladies go to powder their nose.

Ah yes, the reading room!

Anyway back on topic. Been trying this flight model this afternoon (no autotrim).

I have certainly noticed the increased descent rate with the collective changes, you now have to pull back a bit further if the descent rate is too fast.

I have also noticed an increase in sensitivity on the stick, and I am having to control the stick a lot more than I did previously.

The helicopter now seems a bit more tricky to trim. This is probably because the increased sensitivity is causing me to move while I am trying to trim. It still needs a lot of left rudder, left cyclic and a few forward cyclics to get it near to steady. It does trimk though, and although I couldn't go an make a cup of tea, I can look around for a few seconds without going into a fatal spin or dive.

Taking off seems much easier. It now seems to climb much more gently (or in a more controled manner) and I am now just about able to hover immediately after leaving the ground - something I could not achieve before.

Overall, I think that the model improves things, although I find it a bit 'twitchy' now - but this is probably due to the fact I need to get used to the seemingly more sensitive inputs. Obviously I cannot tell you if it is realistic - only that for a novice it suddenly has not become impossible to fly! The opposite in fact.

Using the new model I got all the cows to water and got home again with only one slight bump when I overdid the downward collective.

nightsta1ker · April 2, 2011

Ah yes, the reading room!
Anyway back on topic. Been trying this flight model this afternoon (no autotrim).

I have certainly noticed the increased descent rate with the collective changes, you now have to pull back a bit further if the descent rate is too fast.

I have also noticed an increase in sensitivity on the stick, and I am having to control the stick a lot more than I did previously.

The helicopter now seems a bit more tricky to trim. This is probably because the increased sensitivity is causing me to move while I am trying to trim. It still needs a lot of left rudder, left cyclic and a few forward cyclics to get it near to steady. It does trimk though, and although I couldn't go an make a cup of tea, I can look around for a few seconds without going into a fatal spin or dive.

Taking off seems much easier. It now seems to climb much more gently (or in a more controled manner) and I am now just about able to hover immediately after leaving the ground - something I could not achieve before.

Overall, I think that the model improves things, although I find it a bit 'twitchy' now - but this is probably due to the fact I need to get used to the seemingly more sensitive inputs. Obviously I cannot tell you if it is realistic - only that for a novice it suddenly has not become impossible to fly! The opposite in fact.

Using the new model I got all the cows to water and got home again with only one slight bump when I overdid the downward collective.

You WILL need to adjust your sensitivity settings for your joystick. I did. Once you get it where you like it, it feels much better.

Keep in mind though, in a real helicopter, you cant really take your hand or feet off of anything but the collective, and you can only really get away with that in trimmed forward flight with the friction set so it wont move on you. They are unstable enough that just changing radios can be a challenge.

---------- Post added at 06:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:28 PM ----------

Scott,
I'm supposed to be remodeling the powder room not testing helicopters in ToH. You're gonna get me in big trouble :)

Chris

Just don't tell the Missus it was me. I already have one rolling pin I need to dodge!

eagledeer · October 29, 2011

Nickname is from the purpose, it where the ladies go to powder their nose.

I thought the was illegal :yay: .

bobocz · April 10, 2009

Thanks nightsta1ker and others,

exactly what you said in list

ground effect reduced
lower collective range increased for better descent rates/ quickstops.

these items are easily recognizable for me, mainly descent rate.

Now I don't fight with heli like before, it is more calm, like in your real videos. I can look down and still can control heli and also cargo transporting is more easier, I don't need use autohover for attaching/detaching (mostly :p). So you make it more realistic, but also more easy ;), but I like it.

Great work :thumbsup: , I'm looking forward to further improvement.

froggyluv · June 19, 2006

^^^ What he said :D

armored_sheep · November 14, 2006

Well done Nightsta1ker! I like your settings.

blave · November 16, 2011

I tried the revised flight model today. I find it almost impossible to fly; it's as if I'm in gusty winds coming from constantly differing directions. I can see some of the improvements intended, such as less "ground fear" (ground effect) and a more realistic descent rate when the collective is lowered all the way, but straight and level flight is waaay more work than it should be.

I think I'm going to revert to the original FM. It's not that I don't appreciate all of the hard work 8^) but I can't even land the thing the way it's flying now. I wonder if it's something particular to my system/setup?

My flight controls are CH Combatstick/Pro Throttle/Pro Pedals.

cheers,

Dave B.

Isaac · October 1, 2011

Hi All, nightsta1ker,

I have tested the patch and it Rocks! finally I'm no longer under the control of the helicopter, trimming is no longer a must and hovering after take off is piece of a cake.

Good job.

So far I have only found something that may be a glitch (and I'm unsure):

Apparently your modification has pushed the potential MH6 flight envelope outside the coordination physics - graphic engine.

when I'm flying a NOE pattern with the the MH6 on expert mode in Takistan with the collective at max, max speed and then I pull collective to climb a mountain the rotor goes in to what looks a severe low RPM and the 3D model slows down to the point that is possible to see each blade, the odd thing is that the RPM gauge seems to be green all the time and if I enable the virtual HUD no yellow/red light pops up.

If you want to know what I'm talking about just flight this quick mission I was making, although it is very far from being finished, if you follow the waypoints you will realise what I'm talking about: DOWNLOAD

Any idea?

Being said that, the MH6 handling is so much improved that I will stick with this addon. :notworthy:

(...) I find it almost impossible to fly; it's as if I'm in gusty winds coming from constantly differing directions. (...)

Dave, revise your joystick settings this patch basically nullifies many of the strange forces in the MH6, by your description sounds like the sensitivity of your joystick is too high. By the way nightsta1ker may correct me if I'm wrong but I would say that this was designed to be used with the expert flight model (I'm not saying it doesn't work in the others)...

Edited November 20, 2011 by Isaac

nightsta1ker · April 2, 2011

Hi All, nightsta1ker,
I have tested the patch and it Rocks! finally I'm no longer under the control of the helicopter, trimming is no longer a must and hovering after take off is piece of a cake.

Good job.

So far I have only found something that may be a glitch (and I'm unsure):

Apparently your modification has pushed the potential MH6 flight envelope outside the coordination physics - graphic engine.

when I'm flying a NOE pattern with the the MH6 on expert mode in Takistan with the collective at max, max speed and then I pull collective to climb a mountain the rotor goes in to what looks a severe low RPM and the 3D model slows down to the point that is possible to see each blade, the odd thing is that the RPM gauge seems to be green all the time and if I enable the virtual HUD no yellow/red light pops up.

If you want to know what I'm talking about just flight this quick mission I was making, although it is very far from being finished, if you follow the waypoints you will realise what I'm talking about: DOWNLOAD

Any idea?

Being said that, the MH6 handling is so much improved that I will stick with this addon. :notworthy:

Dave, revise your joystick settings this patch basically nullifies many of the strange forces in the MH6, by your description sounds like the sensitivity of your joystick is too high. By the way nightsta1ker may correct me if I'm wrong but I would say that this was designed to be used with the expert flight model (I'm not saying it doesn't work in the others)...

Yes, this was designed to be used ONLY with the expert flight model. And yes, you MUST revise your sensitivity settings in the joystick menu. I had everything set to my liking before and my edits made it too sensitive, so I had to reduce them. But once that was done it is responsive but not overly so. I can actually make the helicopter do what I want now, which means precision flying is easier. I was having a heck of a time doing things like slingloads with the default FM because of the "lag" issue, now it's not there. I think the roll rate needs to be slightly increased, but I can figure that out, I think I know which parameters to change, I just have not had time today yet to really dig into it.

About the rotor slowing down as you mentioned: Yes, I did notice this. I have no idea why it's happening, but I will look into it. I am really waiting to see what b101_UK has done with his tweaks, I am hoping that if we combine his edits with engine and rpm parameters with my tweaks, we can have a very realistic heli.

Tacklebait · September 19, 2011

So I'm curious, would Bohemia use user created content such as this improved flight model and include it in their own patch?

nightsta1ker · April 2, 2011

BIS is currently working with RTD, the developer of the flight dynamics, to create their own patch, which may or may not be better than anything I could do.

I have been in an ongoing discussiong with one of the guys from RTD about the flight modeling, and they say all the peices are there and working correctly. After digging into the guts of the flight model, I am more and more inclined to beleive him. This program may in fact be more realistic than anything else out there right now, it just does not have the right values plugged in. So as we get the correct numbers dialed in, it feels more and more realistic. BIS and RTD may be able to get everything tuned in and get the FMs working really well without any outside help. If this turns out to be the case, good for them! If not, the core of pilots here will get it dialed in ourselves.

twisted · March 1, 2005

wow, just tried your user 'patch'. i could almost hover on first attempt! managed to land in a sort of controlled way. things i have always struggled to do. thanks again!

question - how far should the x and y axes be on the controller settings? right now i have them exactly half way in sensitivity (under the straight line in a box shape). pedals are 3/4 across closer to being under the right hand curve in a box.

hon0 · October 27, 2011

wow, just tried your user 'patch'. i could almost hover on first attempt! managed to land in a sort of controlled way. things i have always struggled to do. thanks again!
question - how far should the x and y axes be on the controller settings? right now i have them exactly half way in sensitivity (under the straight line in a box shape). pedals are 3/4 across closer to being under the right hand curve in a box.

It depend about you and your controller. Try to hover. If you CAN'T, fix your sensitivity. When you can pratice a nice hover then it should be fine.

nightsta1ker · April 2, 2011

wow, just tried your user 'patch'. i could almost hover on first attempt! managed to land in a sort of controlled way. things i have always struggled to do. thanks again!
question - how far should the x and y axes be on the controller settings? right now i have them exactly half way in sensitivity (under the straight line in a box shape). pedals are 3/4 across closer to being under the right hand curve in a box.

I have all of my sensitivity sliders about the halfway mark with all of my null zones at zero, but every controller is different. Bottom line is to get it where it feels good for you.

Panther353 · October 28, 2011

Nicely done Scott. This might actual be more "sim" than originally thought.

Edited November 20, 2011 by Panther353

Tacklebait · September 19, 2011

Can servers run this fm? An will it be adapted by who ever connects or will they have to have it in they're config as well?

Tacklebait · September 19, 2011

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/37999001/TAG_TestFM.pbo
C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\take on helicopters\@TESTFM\addons\HERE

Give your feedback to night !

So i installed it to C:\Program Files\Bohemia Interactive\Take On Helicopters\@testfm\addons

do i need to run the game with certain parameters now?

this is nightstalkers fm file right?

First "Community Patch"

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