Possibilities and limits of the TakOH modding

[.kju 3244]

The intention of this discussion is explore the current situation and the way ahead.

While there are big hopes, also from and suggested by BI, to see a thriving

modding community for Take On Helicopters, that is not a given fact or

destiny and it will evolve in the future based on the circumstances.

Looking back at the TakOH beta, the pre release version and the post release

time one can see that activity was rather limited so far.

This may change in the future, yet it has it reasons and those have to be

looked into and worked on to see a positive development.

The reasons so far are mainly to be seen in the following points:

• While the overall arma modding community is not small, the number of
  very experienced, deep into arma modding is significantly smaller.
  
• This group is again separated into people with insights into various areas,
  like mission creation, config tweaking, scripting, world design, sound design,
  modelling and texturing.
  
• In addition only some people are interested in the helicopter game itself
  for various reasons.
  
• Finally the modding in this scene has shifted to more complex projects for
  different reasons. Here lies a big chance for TakOH for one.
  

You are welcome to add more, if you can identify some key points.

Let's pick up the last point again as this may be one area of much potential.

Back in the OFP days it was very common for everyone to get into the editor

and make simple but fun missions and to share them with others.

While the expectation for quality has risen both among the (download)

community and the people to create (and share!) new content,

the actual situation has not changed since OFP:

One can still make simple but fun missions with the editor.

The editor is easy and straight forward to use and still a very powerful tool.

So again this is the area with most potential for the common player new to

the series or new to modding. To edit, tweak, adjust existing missions is the

best way to start and you can get very convincing and fun results with it.

There is no need to get into scripting, even though you can; waypoints and

triggers along with nifty ideas or a well told story or an interesting context,

easily do the job.

In addition the BIKI, the forum search, video guides, OFPEC and experienced

people to help you along the way, give you a huge resource to start with!

Let's compile a list what can be done with TakOH modding in general from

easy to complex. The idea is give you the ability to work on guides and

tutorials for a specific topic to allow new people to get into it.

As said compared to the early days of OFP, there is also a lot insights and

information available that only needs to made accessible and connected.

• Build new missions with the editor
  
• Tweak existing missions within the editor (BI or community missions)
  
• Extend/tweak the TakOH campaign, like new challenges or tasks
  
• Dynamically generated missions (for experienced modders)
  
• Various competitive or cooperative scenarios/game modes for MP
  
• "TakOH life" - a persistent, evolving world (along the lines of existing concepts)
  
• Tweak/extend the sounds of helicopters or other game elements
  
• Reskin the existing helicopters
  
• Create new worlds based on satellite data with generic object placement
  
• Port worlds from A1/A2/OA to TakOH (probably complex and a lot of labor
  only to be realized by BI or very experienced modders)
  
• Tweak the FM for light/middle/heavy choppers (XML/config)
  
• Port existing helicopter from A1/A2/OA or other engines (with permission)
  

Again feel free to add your own ideas. Be specific and realistic please.

Final topic of this thread is a summary of areas and tasks

BI needs to provide information, insights and content.

Especially the more complex topics require BI to help out, provide

the resources and some brief guides would be most useful as well.

• How to tweak/extend the campaign
  
• Guidance on FM tweaking
  
• Sample models for the helicopters
  
• At least basic information how to support the new features and things to keep in mind
  
• What are the possibility for people to retexture models (both technically and legal)
  
• Any special/new requirements for new worlds
  

A way to address questions directly to BI developers on modding topics

would be most useful, like a "weekly list" submitted to BI with specific questions.

That's it for the start. I may update the first post if necessary or useful.

What do you think of the possibilities and limits of TakOH modding?

Edited November 6, 2011 by .kju [PvPscene]

[jcgam 11]

I'm excited about the possibility of editing the flight model by modifying existing xml files. I also have a few good ideas for missions that I'd like to create. It's very important for people like you who have great coding skills to be active in the forums while the rest of us gain experience. As for the rest of us - don't be afraid to experiment!

[4 IN 1 0]

First of all: toolings

I think most people have no idea if tools for ArmA2/OA is suitable for TakOH

[Sealife 22]

I am currently experimenting with what is possible ,starting with what i consider to be easiest Terrain > a2co > TOH

problems i forssee whilst browing pbo so far an i talk here standalone no a2 pbos for refference or re congig them (copyright issue if rrelease a2co model texture maybe so no use) on TOH and custom addon.pbo

firstly is inheritance now World_H not CAworld

simple config change

second is clutter this will now need to reflect H_clutter not old a2 clutter

simple repath in config change

third is probably something that is beyond control but we see and this is new kind of texture = _noem.paa

maybe engine wont like old texture a2 and will spam .rpt or it will know old style and allow , a test will see i think

[Baraka 10]

and connected.

• Build new missions with the editor
  
• Tweak existing missions within the editor (BI or community missions)
  
• Extend/tweak the TakOH campaign, like new challenges or tasks
  
• Dynamically generated missions (for experienced modders)
  
• Various competitive or cooperative scenarios/game modes for MP
  
• "TakOH life" - a persistent, evolving world (along the lines of existing concepts)
  
• Tweak/extend the sounds of helicopters or other game elements
  
• Reskin the existing helicopters
  
• Create new worlds based on satellite data with generic object placement
  
• Port worlds from A1/A2/OA to TakOH (probably complex and a lot of labor
  only to be realized by BI or very experienced modders)
  
• Tweak the FM for light/middle/heavy choppers (XML/config)
  
• Port existing helicopter from A1/A2/OA or other engines (with permission)
  

Reskining is very easy.With DePBO and Eliteness (both can be found here:klick-me) you can unpack the pbo´s.

Each of the 3 Heli types has a folder named "skins".

In this one are (guess what?) the skins.

With your own texture in the mission folder and the Init-line command

this setObjectTexture [0,""your-skin.paa""];

you can easily paint the birds.

What you need: DePbo, Eliteness, BI-Tools (TexView2 for saving the .paa to .tga), Gimp or Photoshop.

The configs are a big Riddle to me. I tried to make a little test-heli, but can´t write the config with my ridiculous knowledge.

So i´m stuck with the setObjectTexture method.

[.kju 3244]

See:

Addon/config: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=70383

Scripted: http://www.ofpec.com/forum/index.php?topic=33537.0

[jedra 11]

As I have said in another thread, I think that mission building for ToH may be harder purely from the point of view that coming up with scenarios may be more difficult. In Arma it was easier as you had Side 1 vs Side 2 and it was easy to come up with a scenario where they basically attacked each other!

Having said this, there is huge potential for co-operative multiplayer in ToH I think. I can also see potential for PvP with things like air races and cargo hauling competitions - how this would appeal to the PvP crowd I and not sure - you (PvPScene) are probably better placed to comment on that! It would be interesting to see how something like AAS could be translated into the civil aviation world!

It will be interesting to see how many of the modellers from Arma2 are interested in civil aircraft (there aren't that many community made civil aircraft in Arma really). It would probably be a shame if lots of military hardware started to be made for ToH as it may detract from the whole premise and may alienate some of the new fans. Having said that if RKSL released their Tornado I would fly it in any game ;-)

I hope the community supports ToH though as I am surprised at myself for enjoying it so much over the last few days. I was always going to buy it, I just wasn't sure how much I would play it.

[tnprvteye 10]

As I mentioned in a previous thread, I think an Random EMS mission generator would be quite fun. I know that we've got a basic Challenge mission, but it only provides boats. If we could add car accidents and such it would provide more of a challenge. Landing between buildings and obstacles in poor visibility would be a neat change of pace.

Also a VIP transport from skyscraper to skyscraper...fire bombing...SWAT drop off (again with random locations)...plenty of long-line opportunities beyond the basic "Challenges" options as well. News chopper pilot...police chases. Lotsa good stuff.

If I had the scripting skills, I'd give it a go myself. I have been trying, but it's beyond me at this point.

[Baraka 10]

imo the civil factor brings a lot of opportunities for Missions and Addons.

I see this as great addition for the sandbox Armaverse.

CheyenneAH56 released his great SC Mod a few days ago for A2. This kind of stuff would be great for ToH.

[blakeace 11]

One of my current projects is giving the cattle and sheep from arma 2, a herding like behaviour. It is not perfect but is still quite fun at times. I was really doing it for use in TOH. The question is, is it "legal" if you own arma2 to port over the animals, as well as describing that to other users?

The other option is would BI be willing to introduce these objects into TOH via a patch?

Helicopter herding is quite big in many countries.

Plus somebody to make a good farming map :p

Edited November 7, 2011 by blakeace

[.kju 3244]

In terms of tools, why not just try BI tools 2 and see if it works?

Mikero's eliteness and command line tools are able to handle the ToH files.

P3d are obviously ODOL and not available - hence sample models by BI are a requirement.

Or where do you see the problem 4 IN 1?

A bridge addon may work fine Thromp yep. However it requires some basic understanding

of configs to get it done. A hack job would do for the start - a nice, seamless integration

is probably quite some effort and needs tools support (ie by mikero).

You are right Baraka - reskins can be simple if the models support hiddenSelections /

hiddenSelectionsTextures. A good start would be to scan the (all in one) config(s).

If those are available, there won't be legal issues. Otherwise it depends on BI stance

for people to release repacked ToH pbos.

As always its a good idea to check how other people have done it. For reskins you

should look into Cyborg11's Little Birds. It contains the proper config method.

Jedra I think one could make fairly easily say a Comanche MOD that also adds

some AAA vehicles, tanks and some other helicopter and plane counterparts.

While the stock game is mostly Civilian, I cannot see it being limited to it.

You could even combine ToH with CO I would assume. So basically CO using

the ToH engine (FM, clouds etc) - I doubt the major effort will be undertaken

though. In any case one can easily extend the combat part of the game.

That said the Civilian aspects also opens room for a lot of creativity.

Even a simple "guided tour" by means of waypoints or as observer through

the scenery is appealing. Combine that with a good atmosphere and

you have a fun scenario.

The random jobs/tasks system alone would be quite fun as tnprvteye

suggests I'd think. Like the Arma SecOps system - just a non military version.

That in MP - coop or with multiple chopper companies at the same time

sounds like a lot of fun.

blakeace BI does not/no longer like to see their PBOs, as modified version,

for download. However you can make a guide how people would do that on

their own on their local computer with their arma files. Along with a bridge

addon you should be able to get most into ToH I'd assume.

Edited November 7, 2011 by .kju [PvPscene]

[Sealife 22]

I tried terrain and found the following

It accepts the old textures without report spamming.

Ambient animals are not all supported and should be adapted and rabbits and other non supported removed (list to follow)

Height of the map in game is now (or appears to be ) more calculated in relation to helicopters physice I.E if your ground zero is 300 meters and your mountains hills 1-2000 meters above that , helicopters will struggle more to fly over the peaks .

clutter should be changed over to the new TOH clutter

I had bad stuttering for the first load and the terrain did take longer than normal , this i presume is because TOH uses lower quality textures than arma2 and maybe this new _oem replaces something TBD

all in all terrrains port very easily

[blakeace 11]

blakeace BI does not/no longer like to see their PBOs, as modified version,

for download. However you can make a guide how people would do that on

their own on their local computer with their arma files. Along with a bridge

addon you should be able to get most into ToH I'd assume.

• Yep, I wouldn't ever go there. The only way through a download I could conceive as valid is through an official patch.
  
• Do you have any link or reference that confirms it is legal for personal use of files from one product you own being used in another product you also own if they are both by BI? If not I will pm one of the moderators first to find the answer or who to approach for the answer when I am closer to releasing it :)
  

[moricky 211]

Let's compile a list what can be done with TakOH modding in general from

easy to complex. The idea is give you the ability to work on guides and

tutorials for a specific topic to allow new people to get into it.

You might not have noticed, but the documentation process has already begun.

Explore Take_On_Helicopters: Editing and check what's new ;)

For example Heliport module explains how to use career heliport in user missions, further extending story of Larkin Aviation.

Custom Waypoints are also fully described, enabling everyone to use all of their optional params.

Apart from new stuff, existing Mission Editor page was completely redesigned, merging editor tutorials from all games into one.

Introduction to External Editing and Mission Export was also added.

[royaltyinexile 175]

Not to mention the new sample mission available now!

Best,

RiE

[Sealife 22]

Nice to see biki is now filling up thankyou ,

i wonder tho if it can be made a little more concise sometimes in example as it can be confusing for firt time learners especially if people not used the BIS engine style before

for example people always see thing like this in BIS BIKI

wpfastropefnc

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/BIS_fnc_wpFastRope

syntax = 3 parameters

Syntax: arguments: [limitHeight,limitSpeed,fastropeID]

example = 6 parameters ok for some with experience but can create many many post and confusion

[player, position dude, 50, 5, 15, 1] spawn BIS_fnc_wpFastRope;

and again here

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/BIS_fnc_wpSlingLoadAttach

syntax 3 parameters

Syntax: arguments: [posLimit,failCode,weight]

example = 6 parameters

[player, dude, 50, 10, {hintC "You lost the cargo!"}, 1000] spawn BIS_fnc_wpSlingLoadAttach;

it seems like old way of here is an expample of calculus now open page 5 in your books and complete the exaples but we have added algebra and well you wasnt told how to do it ;).

I know its no big deal but so many times i have seen poor explanation or poor example lead to much frustration biki and bibles are good but if its confusing , then you need another biki or forum thread to explain sometimes if the information is convoluted .

Edited November 8, 2011 by Thromp

[Faye 10]

Little question about modding. and creating new mission.

Is it possible to make sandbox career and then include mission with payment in them ? And include all the user missions in that career

Example:

Larkin avaition growing and growing , buying helicopters, doing swat mission and getting paid for it. In that way creating a business (and then include fuel payment , repair bills , advetising etc)

Edited November 8, 2011 by Faye

[moricky 211]

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/BIS_fnc_wpFastRope

syntax = 3 parameters

example = 6 parameters ok for some with experience but can create many many post and confusion

Did you actually try to click on 'arguments' to learn more?

[Sealife 22]

No , unfortunately its not clickable for me at work

however it really proves my point because here we are in a forum to further explain the example paramters.

I think what i am saying is very subjective and appreciate its not really a very important Must do or world will fall in, i just wanted to point out how a new person always seems to copy and paste this example and then becomes confused what is happening, maybe if example has another explanation about these extra parameters that are added , the three given parameters an arguments are very well expalined on that link however the other added three are not.

[soul_assassin 1750]

if that <arguments> link is not available for you at work then neither should the rest of the BIKI. Your argument is moot. All is explained if you do as Gaia said, it cannot be any clearer. It would seem totally stupid to copy "a beginner guide" text to every script reference entry when you can write it once and just link to it.

[Sealife 22]

Your argument is moot

I wasnt here to argue , only to point out that the arguments of 3 where explained very well but the paramters in the example were not so.

however i`m sure when i return home and see the parameters are explained in the example by clicking the aruments link , then if i may say , my point is moot

now i can click i can see ( maybe unless im wrong again my point is moot)

i have clicked and if i understoood the explanation in this case is as follows ?

[player, position dude, 50, 5, 15, 1] spawn BIS_fnc_wpFastRope;

object: Object - object to which waypoint belongs (player)

target: Array or Object - position or target where waypoint is placed (position dude)

completionRadius: Number - completion radius in which waypoint is finished (50)

<arguments> - arguments specific for every waypoint type :

//////arguments: [limitHeight,limitSpeed,fastropeID]///////

limitHeight 5,

limitHeight: Number - height tolerance from waypoint's height (default: 10m)

limitSpeed 15,

limitSpeed: Number - maximum speed ov vehicle (default: 10km/h)

fastropeID 1

fastropeID: Number - ID of vehicle's fast-rope position. Positions are defined in vehicle's config under RopePositions >> Fastrope

Edited November 9, 2011 by Thromp

[.kju 3244]

Back to topic now?

[Sylle 1]

Reskining is very easy.With DePBO and Eliteness (both can be found here:klick-me) you can unpack the pbo´s.

Each of the 3 Heli types has a folder named "skins".

In this one are (guess what?) the skins.

With your own texture in the mission folder and the Init-line command you can easily paint the birds.

What you need: DePbo, Eliteness, BI-Tools (TexView2 for saving the .paa to .tga), Gimp or Photoshop.

The configs are a big Riddle to me. I tried to make a little test-heli, but can´t write the config with my ridiculous knowledge.

So i´m stuck with the setObjectTexture method.

Hi guys,

I'm completely new to the TKOH Community/modding but I have quite some experience with repainting models for Flight Sim.

I managed to crank out a quick texture edit but I'm struggling to get it in the game.

I can replace an existing skin with the one I modified (with the addon folder method) but I'm wondering how to ADD my skin to the list of selection in 'free flight mode' with its own, individual name while maintaining all the default BIS liveries.

Anybody here that could give a step by step example?

I checked out some posts in the wiki but the amount of new info is pretty daunting at first to be honest...

Regards,

Sylvain

[b101_uk 10]

You need to edit the “config.bin†file for the helicopter you skin belongs

So you need CfgConvert.exe (from BIS tools) to go from config.bin (binorized) to config.bin (txt form – AKA: config.cpp) (drag and drop config.bin onto CfgConvert.exe or a shortcut made to it to convert to a txt format config.bin/config.cpp, or onto cpp2bin.bat or a shortcut to it too re-binorized config.bin or to change and binorize config.cpp (txt) to config.bin.

You will want to put you skin and the new modified config.bin (that has been binorized) in a new folder structure that mimics the .pbo folder structure.

e.g. (using the light helicopter)

C:\...\...\...\take on helicopters\HSim\Air_US_H\Helicopters_Light\data\skinsâ€

The “\take on helicopters\†is the root folder for take on helicopters that your game resides.

You will need to add the subfolders “\HSim\Air_US_H\Helicopters_Light\data\skinsâ€

The modified config.bin would go in the “\Helicopters_Light†folder like it is in the .pbo

The skin (if it’s the primary one) would go in the “\data†folder like it is in the .pbo.

If it a secondary one it would go in the “\skins†folder like it is in the .pbo.

From the above you can go to a single .pbo of a unique name provided you can call the path to the original modal file, other textures and sounds without actually putting them in your .pbo, but realy if its just for your own use you are as well forgoing putting it in a .pbo and just using “C:\...\...\...\take on helicopters\HSim\Air_US_H\Helicopters_Light\data\skins†etc

[.kju 3244]

Sylle check post #11.

Basically you make a new addon (folder) with a config.cpp and your textures in it.

You define a new class based on an existing helicopter.

You modify its name and texture set used. That's it.

class CfgPatches
{
class MyTag_MyNewHeli
{
	units[] = {"MyTag_Heli_Heavy01_MyNewHeli_H"};
	weapons[] = {};
	requiredVersion = 0.1;
	requiredAddons[] = {"HSim_Air_US_H_Helicopters_Heavy"};
	version = "2011-11-30";
	fileName = "MyTag_MyNewHeli.pbo";
	author = "YourNick";
	mail = "addy@mail.net";
};
};
class CfgVehicles
{
class Heli_Heavy01_H;
// Reskin
class Heli_Heavy01_Vrana_H: Heli_Heavy01_H
{
	hiddenSelectionsTextures[] = {"HSim\Air_US_H\Helicopters_Heavy\data\skins\Heavy_MER_1_vrana_CO.paa","HSim\Air_US_H\Helicopters_Heavy\data\skins\Heavy_MER_2_vrana_CO.paa","HSim\Air_US_H\Helicopters_Heavy\data\skins\Heavy_MER_3_vrana_CO.paa"};
};
// New class with new skin
class MyTag_Heli_Heavy01_MyNewHeli_H: Heli_Heavy01_Vrana_H
{
	displayName = "MyNewHeli";
	hiddenSelectionsTextures[] = {"HSim\Air_US_H\Helicopters_Heavy\data\skins\Heavy_MER_1_vrana_CO.paa","HSim\Air_US_H\Helicopters_Heavy\data\skins\Heavy_MER_2_vrana_CO.paa","HSim\Air_US_H\Helicopters_Heavy\data\skins\Heavy_MER_3_vrana_CO.paa"};
};
};

You can get the full ToH config here:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=115692 (Link in post #12)