Tax the 1%ers and banks to pay for austerity?

[mrcash2009 0]

I'm not suggesting changing anything. It's Walker and yourselves that are unhappy with the way things are - I'm open to workable ideas

If this is truly the case, then your happy with how things are right now over the rest of the world, and your also ok to sit back and wait for something you want to hear as a workable idea in your eyes (a workable idea suggests something wrong or not working to be fixed to get working which you are happy with)?

So why not let the rest and walker hear have suggestions and let it be? You can only go so far in telling people they have it wrong, especially when you dont seem to have any notion of a change of anything anyway. Slamming on suggestions of workable ideas and waiting for one you like to come along is much like building a website for someone, and they constantly dont like it without ever giving you a brief of what they like to see as examples (crap analogy but all I could muster).

ABS, there is so much mixed up with your post its nearly unreal in terms of black & white view and no shades of grey like you have summed the entire world up in a post, but anyway ... im amazed, I may even print it and frame it for a reminder of how wrong things are :)

Edited November 4, 2011 by mrcash2009

[PELHAM 10]

If it will not work, it will not work.

Edited November 4, 2011 by PELHAM

[mrcash2009 0]

^^ well said!

I always try my best :)

EDIT:

If it will not work it will not work

.

Prove what will ... oh yes, it doesn't matter there's nothing wrong.

Edited November 4, 2011 by mrcash2009

[PELHAM 10]

If this is truly the case, then your happy with how things are right now over the rest of the world, and your also ok to sit back and wait for something you want to hear as a workable idea in your eyes (a workable idea suggests something wrong or not working to be fixed to get working which you are happy with)?

I am not 100% satisfied, putting words in my mouth again Mrcash. What you suggest is that Walker be left alone to post his beliefs here without comment or criticism.

His ideas and beliefs would make things worse and it has been demonstrated to be so many times over in recent history.

My point to counter the original post by Walker is that increasing the taxes on the 1% would cause them to leave. That would be bad for everyone. He can't answer that one and neither can you. Therefore his idea is unworkable, it doesn't work, it doesn't add up in the 2+2=4 sense of basic logic.

Edited November 4, 2011 by PELHAM

[abs 2]

ABS, there is so much mixed up with your post its nearly unreal in terms of black & white view and no shades of grey like you have summed the entire world up in a post, but anyway ... im amazed, I may even print it and frame it for a reminder of how wrong things are :)

Listen, there are always shades of gray, but gray is just a variation of black or white. Keeping things black and white helps people focus on the fundamental issues and doesn't distract anyone with the infinite variations of any given situation.

The problem here isn't that these 1% are not getting taxed and taxing them will fix the world's problems and we'll all end up wealthier and better off. That's a pipe dream, buddy.

The real problem isn't that we are not taxing hard working people. The real problem is explained amazingly in this video.

p3_Q1SiRN-A

If you don't see this as the REAL problem, then I'm not sure what else to tell you.

Abs

Edited November 4, 2011 by Abs
Clarified a point.

[GRS 10]

How about a flat tax rate with no exception for everybody so people with money can keep their money like they should be allowed to and still pay "more".

[dmarkwick 261]

How about a flat tax rate with no exception for everybody so people with money can keep their money like they should be allowed to and still pay "more".

Wouldn't it be great to have a simple, single, no-excuses flat rate that everyone, everyone, was subject to. Say 15% or so, no exceptions.

Of course, accountants would lose business, but hey-ho :)

[mrcash2009 0]

If you don't see this as the REAL problem, then I'm not sure what else to tell you.

The federal reserve bank (fraud) and debt based system is the problem, yes it is. I knew that long ago. So with that in mind at the Walkers suggestion is not a good one, then to change that systems very core would be Anarchist in nature which everybody doesn't like when they see it.

And as those in higher payment levels are not already in debt up to the eyeballs maybe they can put some money into this current existing system (knowing the issues) and stop ripping a new one out of everyone else, its those in such high levels that are part of that system and setting it up that you are blasting people for suggesting they pay a part for. Its the higher level folk suggesting all this so they should expect that themselves, hard working isn't the point.

I've yet to see anyone come up with much at all, everyone has highlighted the mass flaws, and shout down anyone with their knowledge of the system, yet we are still in it, everyone is still getting the life sucked out of them financially and the "game players" as I call it should be looked to as everyone is quick enough to look downward.

You mix your views on working ethic & elitism, the mindsets are different.

You also forgot to mention that lower bracket paid folk who loose jobs/have money cut and no overtime while paying the debt due to the issues are not then shit workers who didn't try hard enough and deserve it are they? That's the shades of grey I was referring too. And no ones asking 1 percent to take care of everyone, but to balance the request out, if you dont have it you dont have it, if you have plenty and then some it can help to balance it while the others are still paying daily no matter what.

I am not 100% satisfied, putting words in my mouth again Mrcash. What you suggest is that Walker be left alone to post his beliefs here without comment or criticism.

I can only speak of what I read, I dont know your words from your mouth (oddly you did the same in that quote to me). I suggest that how much more can you say its not workable, and with such a logical way of thinking and input where are your alternatives? Of which you said your "open to workable ideas", of which is a mystery until you post some unless you want them delivered to you.

My point to counter the original post by Walker is that increasing the taxes on the 1% would cause them to leave. That would be bad for everyone. He can't answer that one and neither can you.

I can and I did:

We live in a pyramid style system, for eons and to swap it around financially like Walker suggests (correctly in many ways) would mean the rich and selfish and egotistical warped high level humans with allot of power and "control" reacting and protecting it.

And from that reaction you get what we are seeing now and also worse later.

Ultimately no one has a workable system as we are tied to one that will go postal no matter what the decisions, and then that's some kind of nonsense and just negative for the sake of it, one big loop. But its not at all strange to suggest that the money being sucked upwards while the debt stays at the bottom propping up the ones above should pay, the fact they would react and fuck everyone over still doesn't alter the fact its completely imbalanced.

This all seems to come down to the mindset of the rich and how best not to upset, which seems that anything changing the system would upset so its inevitable. Yet its people who are rich suggesting this to us all, but hey, must not grumble .. they worked hard to tell us.

Edited November 4, 2011 by mrcash2009

[celery 8]

How about a flat tax rate with no exception for everybody so people with money can keep their money like they should be allowed to and still pay "more".

That would benefit the rich and worsen the situation of the lower classes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax

Also, look at which countries are using flat tax rates and try to guess how well off the countries and their people are. I think only the Czech Republic is doing well in general.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Celery

[kernriver 4]

@ Abs

Regarding the video you posted:

Yeah, I've seen plenty of "documentaries" talking about loans, debt, making money out of thin air, FED, etc. (BTW waaay offtopic: Jesus wouldn't aprove of this system, but that's another story)

What is the solution to this situation?

Ban fractional reserve banking system and commercial banks?

I say YES.

But then what? Gold standard? Government issued fiat money? I don't have an answer.

On another note, I've read about North Dakota state bank, but I couldn't really work out what that's all about.

Apparently, they (ND) have a surplus in the state budged, unemployment rate ~5 % etc.

Can anyone shed some light on this? Why is it working for them but not for the rest of the USA (world)?

[jblackrupert 14]

Since when you do need to live in a tax haven to avoid paying taxes?

You simply register your company in that country or reflag your ship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_convenience

In fact Paul Martin our 34th Prime Minister did that with his shipping company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Martin

[igneous01 19]

in my opinion, we as a species should have moved past money and economics a long time ago... There is no right way to fix it, no right way to distribute it, and no right way to tax it.

Even if, the 1% suddenly paid 3 trillion in taxes, it would all come back to them in a matter of weeks, because politicians are below these people on the totem poll.

[walker 0]

Hi all

As I pointed out the situation is clear. The banks and the 1%ers say they have this great thing called capitalism and that it is a great thing for the world. Yet clearly it is not.

The banks and the 1%ers broke it; rather easily I might add.

They did so by manufacturing imaginary money using various tools including fractional reserve banking and things like credit default swaps mostly using money they got in various tax avoidance scams including ones where they bamboozled politicians into believing that they could make far more money for us all if they were not taxed so much.

They then used the money to create a world wide credit bubble, mainly in the US but infecting everywhere else that they could by using Credit Default Swaps that they bribed or defrauded the ratings agencies into giving, these banking instruments, which were bad loans wrapped up in a thin vinier of good loans, a cast iron tripple A rating. They then sold these fraudulent instruments to all and sundry including: nation states, pension funds and retail banks. Thus this Ponzi scheme grew and grew inflating the bubble further and further, until...

In 2007/2008 it popped. The banks and 1%ers then went to the 99% and said give us trillions of dollars, and it was trillions world wide, and we can use capitalism to fix this. With some reluctance we gave these 1%ers and bankers the benefit of the doubt and the money and awaited them fixing the problem, using capitalism.

Well here we are in 2011 heading into 2012 and the bankers and 1%ers capitalism has not fixed it. Now like fraudulent contractors everywhere they are blaming the customer, the 99% to whom they sold capitalism, and they have done a runner with the trillions in cash, paying them selves vast bonnuses and 50% wage increases. Leaving the 99% to pay for the clean up with austerity.

I do not think this is right.

I think the 1%ers and the banks should be made to prove that capitalism works by putting their money where their mouth is; and if not then heads should roll.

Kind regards walker

Edited November 5, 2011 by walker
grammer

[celery 8]

in my opinion, we as a species should have moved past money and economics a long time ago...

Money is the best way to motivate mankind to do fuck all besides feeding themselves in the easiest way possible. There cannot be any communist or Star Trek utopian society until human nature itself is modified to be utterly altruistic, selfless and hiveminded without any exception, and that in itself is an ethical problem.

Edited November 5, 2011 by Celery

[jblackrupert 14]

Please disconnect your internet. It is the creation of the DoD [Arpanet] and brought to your home by capitalism.

P.S Bohemia are Capitalists. Burn your copies Arma and TOH.

Have a nice day. :)

Edited November 5, 2011 by jblackrupert

[walker 0]

Please disconnect your internet. It is the creation of the DoD [Arpanet] and brought to your home by capitalism.

P.S Bohemia are Capitalists. Burn your copies Arma and TOH.

Have a nice day.

Hi all

Like confidence tricksters every where you claim the work of others as your own.

Put your money where your mouth is fix it.

Kind regards walker

[dm 9]

Put your money where your mouth is fix it.

Why dont you fucking fix it, rather than posting the same tired old whiney crap on the forums all day long...

Put YOUR money where YOUR mouth is, and YOU fix it...

[jblackrupert 14]

Sorry Walker, but facts are facts.

Feel free to post a few dozen Wikipedia links if you wish but it doesn't change anything.

Edit: Speaking of fixing things. Here's some real intelligent ideas. :j:

http://www.cbc.ca/bc/news/bc-111104-occupy-vancouver-demands.pdf

Edited November 5, 2011 by jblackrupert

[walker 0]

Hi all

I did not claim capitalism could fix it.

I did not take trillions of dollars and claim I could fix it using capitalism.

The 1%ers and bankers did so.

I am holding them to their contract.

Kind regards walker

Edited November 5, 2011 by walker

[jblackrupert 14]

Walker., I'd stick to the Wikipedia links and copy/paste posts if i was you.

[dm 9]

I am holding them to their contract.

Beyond your annoying posts here (I thought this was a military forum, not a politics one?) HOW are you "holding them to their contract" ?

I bet you still have a bank account

I bet you still go to a shop to buy all your goods

I expect that despite your hot-air to the contrary, you still drive a car...

You certainly still pay for electricity and the internet, and for a pc/laptop/tablet of some sort...

You are the WORST kind of "protester", all you do is spout rhetoric and complain about the problems all day long without actually doing anything.

Hint: The way to DO something here would be to remove your money from the system, cancel all your monthly payments (and the services you receive for them), and go live in a self-sufficient commune somewhere (so that you are no longer providing for the corruption).

[jblackrupert 14]

Here's a start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy#Ungoverned_communities

and: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_community

If your good with wood: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Proenneke

http://www.youtube.com/results?search=Search&resnum=0&oi=spell&search_query=dick+proenneke&spell=1&suggested_categories=19%2C22%2C26%2C27&sa=X

Sorry but Wikipedia doesn't have an entry for "pseudo-intellectual" but a quick look in the mirror would suffice.

Edited November 5, 2011 by jblackrupert

[mrcash2009 0]

Its funny how people will defend what goes against them and just in-fight as they are expected to do :bounce3:

Not one solitary person here can say that current times and system are doing them a massive favour, corrupt to the hilt, and at that same time attack people with suggestions (of which they have none). Or that there is an imbalance of money supply, (most going up to the top).

I bet you still have a bank account

I bet you still go to a shop to buy all your goods

I expect that despite your hot-air to the contrary, you still drive a car...

You certainly still pay for electricity and the internet, and for a pc/laptop/tablet of some sort...

That chestnut, like "they have ipods and use starbucks" classic same old same old, doesn't change a thing, your still being ripped a new one just like everyone else.

Hint: The way to DO something here would be to remove your money from the system, cancel all your monthly payments (and the services you receive for them), and go live in a self-sufficient commune somewhere (so that you are no longer providing for the corruption).

As much as living off the grid is a way to do thing (dont disagree) you would admit that by not complaining and having Walker as the forum fall guy, your are yourself happy too (bold quote), when being fully aware of it? Or was that sarcasm and you think their is none? I think its mainly because of not much choice, and would massively effect your life in an instant, but guess what, a crash would anyway - for everyone. Its as much as to say, if you speak out against a system that's also effect me and the world, and speak to effect the rich people in times of a depression (that's what it is forget media speak) ... go live in a commune as I dont want to hear it * meanwhile your in the depression too *.

You are the WORST kind of "protester", all you do is spout rhetoric and complain about the problems all day long without actually doing anything.

How is he a protester when hes making a suggestion on a forum? You could also say your are the clichéd "responder" by shouting it all down and throwing the way of living in the mix, at the same time acknowledging corruption but then making no suggestions either, your in this too mate, it wont go away.

Sorry but Wikipedia doesn't have an entry for "pseudo-intellectual" but a quick look in the mirror would suffice.

Usual tricks again I see :rolleyes: . Edited November 5, 2011 by mrcash2009

[walker 0]

Hi all

It was the 1%ers and bankers who took the trillions of dollars in bailout money from tax payers round the world saying they could fix it with capitalism.

Since then they have not fixed it with capitalism. They have however paid themselves vast bonuses, 49% wage rises and claimed billions in tax breaks.

They say capitalism works when clearly it does not.

I say we want our money back.

Kind regards walker

[jblackrupert 14]

Usual tricks again I see

Nope, just suggesting the self professed "Anarchist" practices what he preaches.

Just like the Communists, Marxists at the protests. Get their butts to the airport and fly to North Korea, Cuba or China and go be one and stop pretending while sitting pretty in a democracy, sipping lattes and waaa waaa waaa'ing on the internet a product of the DoD and brought to you by Capitalism.

Unlike the Marxists and Communist pretenders. Walker doesn't have to leave the country. There are plenty of communities he can drive to and be an "Anarchist" all he likes and the authorities will leave them alone.

Walker pretty much just replies on nothing more then Wikipedia links and copy/pasted sentences from other people. Pretty much defines a ""pseudo-intellectual"

Theres nothing Wrong with Capitalism. it's the laws keeping things in check that are not being enforced. If white collar criminals were going to jail like they should then things would a LOT different.

It's like saying the system of traffic lights and rules of the road is a failure because people run red lights and speed.

It doesn't really matter what political system we have in place. there will aways be people who will break and bend the rules for their own benefit. Enforcing laws to nip it in the butt is whats required. We have the laws

the problem is we don't apply them and when when we do it's usually the little guy who goes to jail.

Steal $100 and they call you a thief.

Steal $1,000,000 and they call you a businessman.

Edited November 5, 2011 by jblackrupert