Tax the 1%ers and banks to pay for austerity?

[PELHAM 10]

Wanna know which is the biggest landowner on the planet? The british Queen. Royality for example, they are the mega rich 1% without produce anything.

Talks occupy about taxing them? No, they just wanna end the evil capitalism.

Wrong - Jesus is the biggest land owner - his dad made it all in the first place. Neither of them have ever paid any tax! I suggest we sue God for 4.54 billion years in back taxes - that would eliminate the concept of being poor wouldn't it???

RE the Queen - the 'ownership' is largely ceremonial, the land is 'owned' by the crown. She can't actually sell it or earn income from it so this so called fact is another falsehood. If it were true she could simply sell parts of Australia and Canada for the repairs that are needed on various palaces - they are not in a good condition and thats why they rely on the civil list. The lands she supposedly owns do not contribute anything to the civil list.

Edited November 4, 2011 by PELHAM

[Beagle 684]

You don't have to produce things to get rich. Other people can produce them for you.

You do not produce any value this way, you only produce inflation that way. Guess why germany still stands on it's own feet. Germany invested in production capacity at competetive cost level to eastasia, not in investment business balloons. Or as we say here, in the shadow of the local Volkswagen plant...car creators create the value the whole region depends on, not the banksters...those are in Frankfurt and get occupied by now.

And here comes the clue...German federal fond holds up to 20% in value on high value corporations like German Telekom, Deutsche Bahn, Lufthansa, Volkswagen etc. So in fact Germany is a corporation that runs a state, not a state thats runs corporation.

We are indeed already more like China.

China finances the USA and Germany finances the EU.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Beagle

[Baff1 0]

You do not produce any value this way, .

You don't need to produce value, all you have to do is aquire it.

---------- Post added at 02:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Dosenmais

Wanna know which is the biggest landowner on the planet? The british Queen. Royality for example, they are the mega rich 1% without produce anything.

Talks occupy about taxing them? No, they just wanna end the evil capitalism.

Why would The Crown want to tax the Queen?

What would be the point of her taxing herself anyway?

It all sounds a bit foreign, that idea.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Baff1

[Beagle 684]

You don't need to produce value, all you have to do is aquire it.

---------- Post added at 02:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 AM ----------

You forget that money has no value of its own in our times. In the last decades the inflation was fought by making goods cheaper so that the inflation of money value was not noticable...but now since even china has rising production costs and does not want to produce dirt cheap goods this is not working anymore...that's the bubble that just popped and it's still not over.

You can't sell Dollars for long if there's no value behind it. Just look at Greece...that's what's happening when the creditor finally want's its money back with interest.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Beagle

[Baff1 0]

Then just acquire whatever it is that you do place value on.

Money is still working for me, I'll add.

[walker 0]

Hi all

As I pointed out the critical problem is that the bankers and 1%ers who caused this depression are not shouldering a fair share of the burden of austerity. In fact they are dumping the load on everyone else. Sorry but the 49% wage rises among bankers, CEOs senior management, and board members; while everyone else is saddled with interest rate increases on their debt and mortgages, wage freezes, unemployment, increased inflation, VAT increases, foreclosure, reduced pensions, the reduction and even ending of social protection and health systems, etc.

The plane fact is that 1%ers just are not pulling their weight. That is what everyone is angry about.

I think a 30% increase of income tax on the top 15% of the population for the next 5 years or until austerity is no longer required is a reasonable solution, they are not going to starve if we do that.

Kind Regards walker

Edited November 4, 2011 by walker

[Beagle 684]

Then just acquire whatever it is that you do place value on.

Money is still working for me, I'll add.

money worked better a few month ago...I see the difference already in my business. 100% raw material price rises since March 2009.

[PELHAM 10]

Hi all

As I pointed out the critical problem is that the bankers and 1%ers who caused this depression are not shouldering a fair share of the burden of austerity. In fact they are dumping the load on everyone else.

They were not working alone? What about the politicians? I want a piece of Gordon Brown - he promissed me he had eliminated boom and bust.

The plane fact is that 1%ers just are not pulling their weight. That is what everyone is angry about.

They pay 24.1% of the total income tax in the UK already? Just what do you call not pulling your weight?

I think a 30% increase of income tax on the top 15% of the population for the next 5 years or until austerity is no longer required is a reasonable solution, they are not going to starve if we do that.

Kind Regards walker

Will this be done globally? Not possible - they will simply leave whichever country brings in such a rule then you have 24,1% of your total income tax bill missing. The people left including poor people will have to pay more.

It all sounds very nice and convincing Walker - can't implement it though can you?

[jblackrupert 14]

Communism looks great on paper also.

[Beagle 684]

Communism looks great on paper also.

Communism does not work and look shitty even on paper...try Socialism ;)

[Innomadic 10]

They pay 24.1% of the total income tax in the UK already? Just what do you call not pulling your weight?

I don't think hes referring to the UK, where taxation isn't backwards.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yeah, Socialism and thievery always sounds like a simple solution while people just parrot the latest bullshit that they heard.

This fake Robin Hood Tax is this, what IWF and european politics demanded a long time and now its one of the main talking points of occupy this and that.

Its FRAUD. Robin Hood never demanded taxes, he has stolen taxes!

This Tax will nearly taxing everything which makes every banking activities oversee able. And how should "(ie financing the economy)" work? This money was sucked out of the economy! Its like a guy which shears sheeps and than makes them way smaller sweaters.

Seriosly, how many books about economy did you read in your life? And i mean the real economy stuff and don't Marx and this bunk.

Wanna steal from me? Come and take it punk.

Well, i edited my reasonable answer, because considering your posting history, i won't lose my time with flamers. Congrats, you inaugurate my ignore list.

Edited November 4, 2011 by ProfTournesol

[jblackrupert 14]

The fact of the matter is the rich people getting taxed extra will just find new ways to hide it.

The money they can't hide will just be recovered in higher prices and or less goods for the money.

The only people who will benefit from any Robin hood tax is the off-shore banks, lawyers, accountants and money launderers.

[Baff1 0]

I don't think hes referring to the UK, where taxation isn't backwards.

It isn't?

News to me.

[walker 0]

Hi all

That criminals avoid tax is well known. You do not ignore criminal scroungers you lock them up and confiscate the proceeds of their crime.

Your suggestion that we let those criminals involved in tax avoiding off because we cannot catch them all is the same as saying don't go after theives because we cannot catch them all. It is a cowardly answer.

If people want to live in a tax haven fine. Then they should loose their passports and citizenship. There are costs to living in a country under it's protection if you do not want to pay then you loose your right to its protection. Then with regard to countries that aid in criminal tax avoiding simply bring in embargos including flights cut them off from internet.

This whining that we cannot deal with criminal tax avoiding is just defeatist nonsense often as not perpetrated on us by the 1%ers themselves and their paid mouthpieces.

Kind Regards walker

Edited November 4, 2011 by walker

[mrcash2009 0]

We live in a pyramid style system, for eons and to swap it around financially like Walker suggests (correctly in many ways) would mean the rich and selfish and egotistical warped high level humans with allot of power and "control" reacting and protecting it.

And from that reaction you get what we are seeing now and also worse later.

People seem to mix up "Anarchist" as someone who wants to effect the system that will then cause an effect on anyone (so please dont), no matter how you turn on this, this will happen anyway like a domino effect on any side. So even what walker is asking is deemed anarchist in nature, in fact any change that hits the upper levels with be tagged with it, and then renamed "domestic terrorism" later (see latest rainbow 6 footage hint).

I suggest we sue God for 4.54 billion years in back taxes - that would eliminate the concept of being poor wouldn't it???

That would be 6000 years and even less when we had a system of currency and tax, dont overcharge, do you work for the bankers? :) Edited November 4, 2011 by mrcash2009

[PELHAM 10]

Hi all

That criminals avoid tax is well known. You do not ignore criminal scroungers you lock them up and confiscate the proceeds of their crime.

Your suggestion that we let those criminals involved in tax avoiding off because we cannot catch them all is the same as saying don't go after theives because we cannot catch them all. It is a cowardly answer.

If people want to live in a tax haven fine. Then they should loose their passports and citizenship. There are costs to living in a country under it's protection if you do not want to pay then you loose your right to its protection. Then with regard to countries that aid in criminal tax avoiding simply bring in embargos including flights cut them off from internet

You're changing the argument - you stated that the top 1% must pay an extra 15% of the tax. Now you are suggesting that the top 1% are all criminally avoiding tax and must be locked up? Is that actually true?

Robert Mugabe the president of Zimbabwe followed the exact policies you suggest and look what happened to that country. The rich simply packed up and emigrated and the economy collapsed. He stripped them of their citizenship and they did not really care. See also Eastern Europe after WW2, Idi Amin and many others. It doesn't work.

What you fail to see is the contribution they make through investment, enterprise and employment. You will never manage to implement such tax laws globally. Sanctions don't work - Mugabe, Gadaffi, Hussein and dozens of other super rich dictators have survived for decades with sanctions against them. Many of the people you are considering going after are far wealthier. All they have to do is pull their money out and wait - we will end up starving and begging them to return, on their terms not ours.

This whining that we cannot deal with criminal tax avoiding is just defeatist nonsense often as not perpetrated on us by the 1%ers themselves and their paid mouthpieces.

Kind Regards walker

Well tell us how to do it then Comrade Walker? Please don't send me to the Gulag for uttering defeatist nonsense lol.

Edited November 4, 2011 by PELHAM

[mrcash2009 0]

Many of the people you are considering going after are far wealthier. All they have to do is pull their money out and wait - we will end up starving and begging them to return, on their terms not ours.

So, drop kick the economy to recreate a new one with a different badge, and start wars to boost funds through war machine and take control of more areas to have such power over, oh ..... the times we are in.

Well tell us how to do it then Comrade Walker? Please don't send me to the Gulag for uttering defeatist nonsense lol.

Are you not partaking in that defeatist mindset you refer too by dumping on most suggestions anyway?

[PELHAM 10]

Are you not partaking in that defeatist mindset you refer too by dumping on most suggestions anyway?

I have simply stated the pitfalls involved in slapping a 15% tax rise on the 1% or locking them up and taking their assets. It will not work and I doubt you could find a way to make it work.

Labelling me a heretic just because I point out uncomfortable truths is effectively hiding from the facts of life on your part.

Find a workable way of changing the system if you can. The methods suggested by Walker will make all of our lives worse.

[mrcash2009 0]

Labelling me a heretic just because I point out uncomfortable truths is effectively hiding from the facts of life on your part.

Read my other post, it was on a similar line to yours in terms of "protecting" and reactions, so you got that wrong. I said you may be also under that mindset of defeatist by looking bad at most suggestions, which suggests to me you think people under that mindset are heretics, which is interesting as I never mentioned that at all or meant that.

Find a workable way of changing the system if you can. The methods suggested by Walker will make all of our lives worse.

I cant (honestly right now), list yours. If I then disagree with yours, am I a member of the Gulag for uttering defeatist nonsense heretic group? Edited November 4, 2011 by mrcash2009

[Dosenmais 10]

Wrong - Jesus is the biggest land owner

playing the dumb fuck dosen't make things better. But in a game forum i shouldn't expect to be amog adult people.

[walker 0]

Hi all

It seems to me that the 1%ers and their apologists do not understand what the consequences for them of the social contract being broken is.

The phrase "fiddling while Rome burns comes to mind"

Let me put it more starkly, capitalism is broken fix it or loose it.

Kind Regards walker

[PELHAM 10]

.

I cant, list yours.

I'm not suggesting changing anything. It's Walker and yourselves that are unhappy with the way things are - I'm open to workable ideas.

Hi all

It seems to me that the 1%ers and their apologists do not understand what the consequences for them of the social contract being broken is.

The phrase "fiddling while Rome burns comes to mind"

Let me put it more starkly, capitalism is broken fix it or loose it.

Kind Regards walker

Is capitalism broken? We have had major economic problems roughly every 10 years for more than a century. Problem is, many young people have never experienced hard times or had to go without. I have lived through 3 major recessions and much else including a civil war. Every time it happens there are protests and calls to lock up the rich, it all returns to normal once people are getting everything they want again.

The problem this time was that the politicians desperately tried to fudge things by borrowing and spending money. Huge sums of it. They created a false economy and false capitalism to try to extend their time in office and keep the inevitable at bay.

If Capitalism is broken what do you suggest as a replacement? Workable ideas please.

Edited November 4, 2011 by PELHAM

[dm 9]

But in a game forum i shouldn't expect to be amog adult people.

Then leave.

Weren't you already banned once for such things?

[abs 2]

As I pointed out the critical problem is that the bankers and 1%ers who caused this depression are not shouldering a fair share of the burden of austerity.

Where do I begin?

These one percent work damned hard for their money. The problem begins when there is no opportunity to become a part of that 1%, and this is just not true (at least not in Canada and America). Anyone can go and get an education. I know people who were lower class whose parents were on welfare that went to university, and now work as bankers up to 80 hours a week. Are you telling me that this person deserves to take home the same amount of money after taxes as someone who works only at McDonalds? (No offense to anyone who works at McDees.) Many of the people I know work well within the rules set up by the government, which is a body elected by the people to represent the people. (Don't get started on corrupt politicians. If it's a problem that really bothers you that much, you also have the ability to run for office and change things. Let's see you do it.)

Does someone like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs (RIP) not deserve their wealth? In my opinion, they do. They worked hard, created a marketable product, and people voted with their wallets. There are free alternatives to Windows (many open source operating systems exist), but Gates was able to position his software on top, and so now he's reaping the rewards. Same thing with Apple; they have more money than the entire US Gov't! And they did it by working hard and offering products that people wanted to spend money on. Can you get a cheap-ass phone for free with a contract? Yea, sure...but you'd rather spend money on an iPhone and make the rich richer...which is absolutely fine.

These people deserved their wealth, because they don't do the jobs of the other 99%.

They have no obligation to take care of the 99%; that is the obligation of each and every man and woman.

"They caused the depression!"

Wah wah wahhh...no they didn't; at least not completely. Was there irresponsible lending that caused a housing bubble? Sure. But on the flip side of that coin, there was also irresponsible borrowing. The average yearly salary is $37,000 in Canada. Someone like that shouldn't own a home worth $1,000,000. It would take at least 40 years to pay it off, assuming that you kept your job and didn't continue to spend extravagantly. You can't discount the role that these silly people who bought houses that they could not afford have in this thing as well.

At the end of the day, it's you who sets your worth. Are you not happy making $10? Work hard, become educated, and then start earning $30. If it's "too hard to do!", well then...shut the fuck up.

It's not the government's role to take from the rich and give to the poor. If it were, what motivation would the rich have to keep working and generating not only income for themselves, but employment the other 99%? If I took home the same amount of money at the end of the day as a waitress, I would quit my high stress job and just become a waiter.

Need I say more?

Abs