Any details on improved wounding system?

[-Coulum- 35]

So does anyone know how the wounding system will work in arma 3. So far it looks like bleeding will be modeled as well as the ability to bandage ones self. Would any devs be willing to drop any more hints or goals?

I was also wondering what improvements the community would like to see in terms of wounding and damage models. I personally hope for more detailed hit zones ie. spinal hit zone, bones in limbs, major arteries and veins, lungs etc. And corresponding realistic effects for each zone. I would also like bullets to be able to pass through several hit zones at once, ie. A bullet goes in through one side of an arm, exits into the chest and then enters into a lung.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

This is a combat sim, not a surgery sim. The modules might get some improvements but I wouldn't expect too much.

[rye1 21]

Wait, there's surgery sims? *heart melts*

[celery 8]

Wait, there's surgery sims? *heart melts*

Try Trauma Center for Wii or DS.

[becubed 24]

There used to be one on the Amiga around 20 years ago. A couple of hours at a mates place gave me a higher kill count than I ever made in Arma:p

[dmarkwick 261]

So does anyone know how the wounding system will work in arma 3. So far it looks like bleeding will be modeled as well as the ability to bandage ones self. Would any devs be willing to drop any more hints or goals?

I was also wondering what improvements the community would like to see in terms of wounding and damage models. I personally hope for more detailed hit zones ie. spinal hit zone, bones in limbs, major arteries and veins, lungs etc. And corresponding realistic effects for each zone. I would also like bullets to be able to pass through several hit zones at once, ie. A bullet goes in through one side of an arm, exits into the chest and then enters into a lung.

Personally I don't see any gameplay improvements from such detailed injury systems. I do see gameplay benefits from vehicle component-based damage systems, but as far as personal injury, I think basic injury is the way to go.

[rye1 21]

Well, actually it would improve the overall wounding system, the ability to self-heal or atleast stem or diminish blood loss through bandage or similar (easy stuff, basic first aid). As of now, a shot to the foot translates to damage all around the body (minutely to the head as well) and this system would limit it to that known hit area and have adverse effects from that instead of 5/10 HP (or however BIS do it) = legs broken or something. Hopefully it would mean hit detections get worked on, especially for MP (with improved netcode I guess we'd see a lot of improvements) and headshots would count as headshots, right now I see people making headshots and sometimes it doesn't count, especially at range, though rarely - it is annoying and doesn't lesser the fact that it's still there.

But agree, vehicle based damage thumbs up!

[CameronMcDonald 146]

I think that there should be magic healing bags in A3. I am mightily convinced that all magic healing bags on this forum would agree with me.

[metalcraze 290]

What BIS needs to do is start giving medics limited supplies. One medic can full heal a whole army right now - and that isn't the limit because there isn't one.

If bullets end - medkits should as well.

[dmarkwick 261]

What BIS needs to do is start giving medics limited supplies. One medic can full heal a whole army right now - and that isn't the limit because there isn't one.

If bullets end - medkits should as well.

A medpack maybe should be treated as a weapon - you change from gun to medpack, and you use medpack "rounds" to heal?

---------- Post added at 10:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 AM ----------

Well, actually it would improve the overall wounding system, the ability to self-heal or atleast stem or diminish blood loss through bandage or similar (easy stuff, basic first aid). As of now, a shot to the foot translates to damage all around the body (minutely to the head as well) and this system would limit it to that known hit area and have adverse effects from that instead of 5/10 HP (or however BIS do it) = legs broken or something. Hopefully it would mean hit detections get worked on, especially for MP (with improved netcode I guess we'd see a lot of improvements) and headshots would count as headshots, right now I see people making headshots and sometimes it doesn't count, especially at range, though rarely - it is annoying and doesn't lesser the fact that it's still there.

But agree, vehicle based damage thumbs up!

Oh yeah I'm in favour of more advanced hit effects, just not as detailed as described in the 1st post.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Let medical ability (and engineer, and the rest) be a result of equipment. When mission maker only wants to have "5 shots", he exchanges the medic bag with the dummy one. Same for camouflage, it's a property of switching to the ghillie (more) or the special forces outfit (less). Such gear should also be cumulative, when used, not when carried. Maybe camo face adds a little more to camouflage value. Or twigs. Or whatever. You get the idea.

[metalcraze 290]

A medpack maybe should be treated as a weapon - you change from gun to medpack, and you use medpack "rounds" to heal?

I think the current first aid system with agony and both medic and a wounded soldier being unable to fight while healing is good enough as it is (NOTE: I'm all for being able to break the healing to return fire which isn't possible now) - just don't let medic be able to do that all the time - simply treat medical supplies as ammo/backpack contents.

This will also force the player/commander to care about his soldiers more since wounded soldiers will drain med supplies quite fast so it will be easier to do your best to not let your soldiers get hit - which is what a good commander is about.

[jw custom 56]

A few improvements to the wounding system wouldn't hurt, but please don't make it too complicated/time consuming.

Some parameters so you can easily set and change number of lives and spawn timer dynamically for each player.

Edited August 23, 2011 by JW Custom

[dmarkwick 261]

I think the current first aid system with agony and both medic and a wounded soldier being unable to fight while healing is good enough as it is (NOTE: I'm all for being able to break the healing to return fire which isn't possible now) - just don't let medic be able to do that all the time - simply treat medical supplies as ammo/backpack contents.

This will also force the player/commander to care about his soldiers more since wounded soldiers will drain med supplies quite fast so it will be easier to do your best to not let your soldiers get hit - which is what a good commander is about.

I think the medpack-as-weapon idea has some merit :) it's easy to learn, easy to implement, and if the effectiveness is tied into class then other units can take medpacks from dead medics and have reduced healing abilities.

Very often my medics are killed because they're doing what they're supposed to be doing, healing someone. However that most often means healing someone in a position where that person got injured - i.e. in the line of fire.

As such: hand-in-hand with the wounding abilities of A3 I should like to see improved medic abilities like dragging into cover. Prone-dragging as well as standing dragging. The current standing drag is far too slow, that speed would be OK for prone dragging though.

[metalcraze 290]

Medkit-as-a-weapon is very unnatural, won't look good and won't play good.

Watch people running on the battlefield with a magical medkit in their hands.

Medic should still have the ability to shoot back when not healing, not scroll through weapons.

Even now when dragging a soldier you still can shoot back (although blindly)

Anyway BIS should grab some ideas from ACE.

What I don't like about ACE medical system the most is that a wounded soldier still can shoot back while being healed through the magical hand-waving of a medic.

Something like current First Aid module with its agony + unconscious state + several types of medical supplies from ACE would be great to have.

BIS can always implement it as a separate module so people who want a simpler system won't have to use it.

Edited August 23, 2011 by metalcraze

[dmarkwick 261]

Medkit-as-a-weapon is very unnatural, won't look good and won't play good.

Watch people running on the battlefield with a magical medkit in their hands.

Sheesh :D

As those are absolute terms with no real solid basis, I'll do the same:

Medkit as a weapon is very natural gameplay, will look convincing when utilised properly, and will play great on the battlefield.

I don't know why you would assume the medkit to be responsible for dragging, or for that matter that medics are gun-toting cowboys able to heal with one hand and return fire with the other :D I'm not suggesting that medics only have a medkit as their weapon. They'd select it as they would any other weapon.

When medics are medicating, that's what they're doing, they're using equipment. As such, it makes sense to me to have it as the primary equipment at that time, hence a weapon. If the term weapon is unsuitable, change it for current hand-held equipment. I think it would be a lot more "realistic" than having it as an action while still toting a weapon yes?

Edited August 23, 2011 by DMarkwick

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I don't see what it adds. Currently you select the action, you drop down, put down the weapon, heal the unit, pick up the weapon, and stands up. With modules running you do different animations (random or meaningful? don't know) which you can break out of by choosing a stance. When using some "med kit" in hands as a weapon, it won't fit with the played animation. Add all items he could use?

[dmarkwick 261]

When using some "med kit" in hands as a weapon, it won't fit with the played animation. Add all items he could use?

What do you mean won't fit with the animation? Doesn't that depend on the animation? As in, new & appropriate animations? I would guess that the most intuitive procedure would be that you wield the med kit like a satchel charge, then when you use it on an injured man you place it down, perform the medical animation, then pick it up again as part of an action for that "weapon".

I'm guessing that is probably quite close to real-life medic procedure. Plus, it has the advantage that a medkit can be used by anyone, even if it's nerfed 50% for non-medics.

My view, is that actions ought to be stuff you can do with the current weapon in hand, such as open doors, board vehicles, change sights etc. To use items where you need to use both hands, then it's a hand equipment change AKA weapon change. I use the term weapon to mean main handheld equipment BTW.

[onlyrazor 11]

As such: hand-in-hand with the wounding abilities of A3 I should like to see improved medic abilities like dragging into cover. Prone-dragging as well as standing dragging. The current standing drag is far too slow, that speed would be OK for prone dragging though.

One thing I'd like to see is a supported walk animation, so you help somebody to their feet and then kinda support them, but they walk on their own.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Use the module on both player and AI. Shoot the AI until he goes down in agony. Start healing the AI and look at the various animations. There is heart compression. Some kind of powder applying. None of which seems to work very well holding a med kit. It's like the engineer, would he always take out a wrench? ;) I thought the wrench anim in a certain other game was laughed at.

It's also the issue of animation speed. "Death by anim" is not something I'm particularly fond of. It may have better use for engineer (I thought everyone hated the wrench anin in a certain other game), but I prefer consistency.

[dmarkwick 261]

Use the module on both player and AI. Shoot the AI until he goes down in agony. Start healing the AI and look at the various animations. There is heart compression. Some kind of powder applying. None of which seems to work very well holding a med kit. It's like the engineer, would he always take out a wrench? ;) I thought the wrench anim in a certain other game was laughed at.

It's also the issue of animation speed. "Death by anim" is not something I'm particularly fond of. It may have better use for engineer (I thought everyone hated the wrench anin in a certain other game), but I prefer consistency.

IMO the actual animation itself is completely unimportant, as long as the notion that the medic is doing "medicy" things, then the visual details are unimportant. Like the engineer. If the wrench is being laughed at because the engineer always uses a wrench for every job, well the purpose of it is lost. It's a generic "engineery" anim denoting engineering work. But, whatever, I know people will complain about all kinds of things :D

But maybe I'm unusual in that I don't care for these kinds of anims, like reload etc, as long as *something* denotes an action, and its not obviously foolish, I'm good with it. Precise animation doesn't matter to me.

[celery 8]

Do we see a satchel charge in the player's hands when he equips it?

[smookie 11]

But maybe I'm unusual in that I don't care for these kinds of anims, like reload etc, as long as *something* denotes an action, and its not obviously foolish, I'm good with it. Precise animation doesn't matter to me.

This is simply called SIMULATION and what the game should be all about :) But for people simulation = real-life accuracy and you have to keep up with the trend

Edited August 24, 2011 by Smookie

[dmarkwick 261]

This is simply called SIMULATION and what the game should be all about :) But for people simulation = real-life accuracy and you have to keep up with the trend

Well, in my mind a well-made reload animation doesn't make it any more a simulation. You could just as well have the guy sit there for the X number of seconds it takes to reload, no animation, and the simulation would still be intact.

I guess I just don't get the need for detailed individual weapon reload animation etc, just as I don't get some people's focus on hand animations while driving. I don't look at the wheel, I look outside. My avatar sitting in the driving position is simulation enough for me.

I mean, I like the walking, running, crawling animations, but generic animations for actions is fine for me.

[5LEvEN 11]

It is a simulation, but BIS is trying to target a variety of people. By adding immersion onto the simulation more people are willing to buy it. Simple as that...

Better/more animations = better immersion = more people buying = money

Just as wanting to improve aircraft simulation would help gain it sells. Imagine if 90% of the people in the flight simulation communities also bought this game...