Supreme Court Strikes Rule Banning Violent Video Game Sale to Kids

[Hans Ludwig 0]

Supreme Court Strikes Rule Banning Violent Video Game Sale to Kids

WASHINGTON – Some video games are clearly too violent for minors. But is it legal to ban their sale? Apparently not.

The U.S. Supreme Court struck down a California law banning the sale of violent video games to minors Monday, a ruling that could profoundly affect the multibillion-dollar video game industry.

California wanted to prohibit the sale or rental of violent games to anyone under 18. But federal judges have declared that the law violates First Amendment free speech rights, and the trade industry argued that the law was too broad.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/06/27/supreme-court-to-rule-on-violent-video-games-for-kids/#ixzz1QVsdq65Q

[dmarkwick 261]

I'm guessing this will be one of those pendulum things. All kinds of stupid decisions are made in one dorection, follwed by stupid decisions in the other direction when something dumb happens.

And what about pornography? Don't the kiddies deserve to see a bit of porn too in the interests of free speech?

[STALKERGB 6]

To quote some of the PDF on the ruling:

“Like the protected books, plays, and movies that preceded them, video games communicate ideas—and even social messages—through many familiar literary devices (such as characters, dialogue, plot, and music) and through features distinctive to the medium (such as the player’s interaction with the virtual world). That suffices to confer First Amendment protection.â€

It's an interesting system where on the one hand the courts choose not to ban the sales because of free speech while still saying violent games (like Bulletstorm to steal PCG's example) shouldn't be sold to minors.

I'm generally of the view that games, like TV, books and music constitute some form of art so should be protected from censorship to a similar degree.

[Innomadic 10]

If Bulletstorm is ending up in the hands of a 12 year old, i think there is something wrong at the home level rather than at retail.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Should ban bad parenting instead. :rolleyes:

[Phantom Six 25]

So what happen if some kid got a hold of some highly explicit rated AO game. Imagine seeing a shelf with rated AO games and then some 12 year old comes up and buy it.

[Mr. Charles 22]

They should do it like MediaMarkt in germany does. Ask for ID card and if you got no ID card or are under the recommended age, you cannot buy them there.

[Hans Ludwig 0]

It's an interesting system where on the one hand the courts choose not to ban the sales because of free speech while still saying violent games (like Bulletstorm to steal PCG's example) shouldn't be sold to minors.

The U.S. Supreme Court (judicial) is not the state of California (state legislator). Therefore, there is no contradiction.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Hans Ludwig

[vilas 473]

it is just another example that lawyers no matter which country they come from - all have no sane, morality, all just love money and anyone can buy them

more psychopats will grow cause no-life played games 10 hours a day (while parents are in work) , more violent act by kids will come (cause kid will only know "shooting way" to deal with anything in life ) etc.

give kids guns, drugs, vote rights and all will fall down, cause kid is kid, it not understand things we understand, it has problem with dividing reality and fiction (movie, fairytale etc)

sales uber alles

next stupid kid will make next shooting in school etc.

18 or 20 y.o. men understand that game world is game world

10 y.o. many times not , just as lawyers ;)

is it not ironic that in English language lawyer and liar you spell almost identical ?

[abs 2]

give kids guns, drugs, vote rights and all will fall down, cause kid is kid, it not understand things we understand, it has problem with dividing reality and fiction (movie, fairytale etc)

Abs

[vilas 473]

do you think that kid understand the same things as adult man ?

it is visible in every area even in this area which we know from addonmaking:

- kid make poor model

- kid must say his model is best, so he says saying he is best and start bash other addons , go at any rating and rate competition by 0 points

is it normal behaviour of adult man ?

another example:

- give all money you have to kid, he will spend all in one day, he will buy candies and chips, PSP3, best camera (not knowing how to make photos) and... you would have not payed: rent, electricity fee, water fee, food)

- give gun to kid, tell him you won't buy PSP3 and XBOX cause you must pay rent for flat, he will shoot you

etc. etc.

or i misunderstood your picture, too English sense of humor for me :P

this guy on chair and woman working, sorry, i don't understand :P guy is coordinating and supervising her work, all is okay on this picture :)

Edited June 28, 2011 by vilas

[Hans Ludwig 0]

do you think that kid understand the same things as adult man ?

it is visible in every area even in this area which we know from addonmaking:

- kid make poor model

- kid must say his model is best, so he says saying he is best and start bash other addons , go at any rating and rate competition by 0 points

is it normal behaviour of adult man ?

another example:

- give all money you have to kid, he will spend all in one day, he will buy candies and chips, PSP3, best camera (not knowing how to make photos) and... you would have not payed: rent, electricity fee, water fee, food)

- give gun to kid, tell him you won't buy PSP3 and XBOX cause you must pay rent for flat, he will shoot you

etc. etc.

or i misunderstood your picture, too English sense of humor for me :P

this guy on chair and woman working, sorry, i don't understand :P guy is coordinating and supervising her work, all is okay on this picture :)

[vilas 473]

a joke... not joke, real life situation about american's ignorance :

- there are amercian family traveling abroad in Poland

- ticket inspector comes to check tickets

- they do not speak our language, so conductor asked them for tickets in english

- he gone and they laugh about his wrong accent instead of being gratefull that someone speak their language

this is ... ignorance in delicate words, cause from time to time you criticized me for wrong non-native language skills

bravo

so let's discuss in Polish i will laugh at your non-native grammar mistakes you...

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

- give gun to kid, tell him you won't buy PSP3 and XBOX cause you must pay rent for flat, he will shoot you

etc. etc.

Talking from personal experience Vilas? :D

:p

[vilas 473]

Talking from personal experience Vilas? :D

:p

i was kid too, those times i haven't understood that mother first must pay for home, than buy new plastic model of car or model of plane , kid will do anything to have "toy" including stealing money which was by parents put to shell to pay rent for flat or electricity cause "me want this new toy, me must have it right now"

i work among people 40-50 y.o. , they have 10-12 y.o. kids , we chat in work about home-life and family (east europeans in work are more "familiar and open" to each other , we talk about family life , it is our lifestyle)

so i know their problems , like for example daughter of someone shouting at him that he must buy her new boots instead of paying for electricity "i don't care about electricity, i must have those boots, it is fashion, i must have them" etc.

another parent from my work has problem with kid stealing money for new games, models (unless not beaten enough, words do not matter for him , only force)

also i remember expirience from my primary school when someone not agreed in "fashion style" he was beaten for wrong hair-cut, wear-style, boots color etc.

so definetly many game addicted kids would hurt parents for "not obeying, me want, buy this, i must have it now"

compare it to addons and "you must do this model or i will kick you" and FA-18 situation, kids behave such way, kids cannot have any rights ;)

kid understand only one thing - his personal "fun"

if kid has too much rights and too much power - he can make hell of life

have you never seen in shop situation of kid that shouts, kick products, kicks people - to make parrents to buy something for him ?? i see it often

this US court decision means they are stupid cause treat kids as responsible adult man

kid is always unreliable when not controlled by parents or law eyes :]

look at those vids, "stressless growth theory" kids :/ not enough beaten

Edited June 28, 2011 by vilas

[sparks50 0]

Basically this was the nanny states attempt at banning videogames in general, also for consenting adults.

It is about time that games receive the same protected status as books, movies etc.

And yes Vilas, we hear you, civil rights are bad, children are bad and should be beaten, Americans are bad. Not much has changed there I see.

Edited June 28, 2011 by sparks50

[vilas 473]

civil right cannot be equal anarchy and "allow anything"

civil rights are always limited because 1 or 2 or 5 percent of population would made a lot of problems to 95% of population - if they would have full rights to anything

society has to be controlled beacause there is minority who will ovedose any tiniest power they will get (look at school shootings)

there is big probablity that kid who will grow on "violent games" will grow to other man than child who will grow on "literature and science"

you have your civil rights... when your tv reports about another fat no-life game addicted kid who shot 10 others in school or elder disabled lady on wheelchair stabbed by knife from 12 y.o. girl

children must : learn (school and not home), listen, obey - to grow on good honest citizen who will take care about parents when they will be old

Edited June 28, 2011 by vilas

[dmarkwick 261]

Basically this was the nanny states attempt at banning videogames in general, also for consenting adults.

It is about time that games receive the same protected status as books, movies etc.

I thought it was about restricting game sales to people who meet the age restriction on the box?

[abs 2]

do you think that kid understand the same things as adult man ?

it is visible in every area even in this area which we know from addonmaking:

- kid make poor model

- kid must say his model is best, so he says saying he is best and start bash other addons , go at any rating and rate competition by 0 points

is it normal behaviour of adult man ?

another example:

- give all money you have to kid, he will spend all in one day, he will buy candies and chips, PSP3, best camera (not knowing how to make photos) and... you would have not payed: rent, electricity fee, water fee, food)

- give gun to kid, tell him you won't buy PSP3 and XBOX cause you must pay rent for flat, he will shoot you

etc. etc.

or i misunderstood your picture, too English sense of humor for me :P

this guy on chair and woman working, sorry, i don't understand :P guy is coordinating and supervising her work, all is okay on this picture :)

You're right. All kids can do are just follow their impulses and kill people. They don't know about giving or anything like that. In fact, there is no difference between kids at all! Each one is exactly the same.

Abs

[vilas 473]

you give one example, i can list example of kids who commit school shootings and were addicted gammers, i can list some more acts commited by game addicted kids, i know teenagers who sit all time by shooting games and become very agressive to anyone around trying to force their will

[nethawk 10]

Don't know about you folks, but I for one don't think video games should be banned.

I've been 12 or 14 when I got my first computer, back in the days, it was a Pentium 100Mhz, top of the top!

Now sure, what do you do with computers? You play games of course!

I played NASCAR, and SimCopter, but also something more interesting, can't remember the name but it was a combat-helicopter game, and not to mention Doom. I rememmber I had nightmares of monsters ripping me apart after playing Doom, but I still played it. After that I started playing other "FPS" (read violent) games such as UT, IL-2, OFP, etc. and I don't think I became a crazy nut.

And so it's with many people I know. We played games when we were young, much too violent games for todays "peaceful and educated society", but we are the ones who made our school, who decided to go to university and make something out of our lives. It's not like we decided to become killers cause we played Doom, now is it?

I think this rules that ban kids from all violence, sexual themes etc. are just another way to "correct" kids, when there is no need for that.

My father for instance (he's 58 now), played "cowboy and indians" when they were young. A game of "mentally shooting" others. Did they turn out bad?

In the middle ages they played being the knight, "slaying his oponents", and again I ask, did they turn out bad?

To the older folks among you, how many Western movies did you watch from 16-20?

What I want to say with this is, today's society blames kids for not being adults, but doesn't blame the parents for not teaching their kids. I have seen all the crying and kicking in stores, and y'know what? We were no better! The only difference is, how the parents tackle the problem, for instance in Slovenija the parents are not allowed to hit their kids. This might seem like a good idea, but think about it. Youre in a store, and your kid starts crying, kicking, and generally making a mess of the place....what do you do? Scream back? Can't do that, that psychological violence. Give him a smack around the ears? Can't do that either. Stand around while he screams? yeah...try it.

So, whatcha gonna do?

Kids shouldn't be treated like grown ups, because they don't understand all the concepts and bigger pictures that the grown-ups have to face daily.

But they shouldn't be "shielded" from everything, as this is no good for them either. Now ask yourself, how much non-violent games (real or PC, Lego, model car chases etc.) have you played as a kid?

To sum this up, kids will become just as responsible as they're parents and dropping everything on the state to educate them, will result in serious problems for them. So I think such laws shouldn't be even considered, but rather should the parents decide what the kid should and shouldn't do. Parents live with their kid, they seem him daily, and they know if he can see the difference between reality and fiction, and they can easily make a proper decision if they want to.

My $0.02

[dysta 10]

Figure, if these popular games are gone free (already happens with Mister-Torrent), that would be much more intense and serious problem than rating and banning the game sales to prevent kids playing. Because it simply doesn't work when pirating and free-yet-mature games goes around the world.

[vilas 473]

Now ask yourself, how much non-violent games (real or PC, Lego, model car chases etc.) have you played as a kid?

a lot of , 90% of time or more (Lego was primary toy till i was 11 or like this) ,

and on my first PC i had no games but AutoCad 14, MsWord, Paint, Corel

first game i had was RTCW, it was when i was ending my univeristy studies

but when i was kid i was using such things as "constructor":

http://www.ablex.pl/zdjecia/16506.jpg

screwdriver, metal parts, screws - it was my toys in chidhood

some bulbs, battery, some wire and trying to make car with reflector etc.

my friends had other hobbies when they were young - furniture making,

gluying plastic jet models (1:72, 1:48, when i was 12-16 i made a looooot of jet models including mixing like front wing Mig29 variations etc. )

paper models (1:48 , some only) etc.

don't tell me you never glued and painted plastic models of cars or jets ?

you never made model of car from wood and paper/cartoon ?

cause i was, it was my joy in childhood - modelling, gluing models, painting models (mostly jets)

later i wanted to make furniture (shelfs, book case etc)

my friend too electronic schemes and built loudspeakers himself

some other played guitar (yeee it was so popular to spend whole weekends with guitar)

we had no skills to make radio-controlled models of cars, but we tried (failed)

Edited June 28, 2011 by vilas

[nethawk 10]

gluying plastic jet models (1:72, 1:48)

^- Made lot's of models myself, it's a great hobby, sadly I lack the space for them now.

a lot of

and on my first PC i had no games but AutoCad 14, MsWord, Paint, Corel

first game i had was RTCW, it was when i was ending my univeristy studies

but when i was kid i was using such things as "constructor":

http://www.ablex.pl/zdjecia/16506.jpg

I know what you mean, but you never played "police and robbers" on the schoolyard? nothing like that?

I don't want to step on anyones toes, just saying that thinking that violent games will make kids agressive is BS. Through there is the school shootings and other stuff taking it as a "primary" reason is BS. There are far deeper layers of the psyche at work there. It's pretty much like saying that listening to rap will make kids smoke weed and become gangsters, doing drive-by's.

Now, everyone can speak of personal experience, and mine isn't the nicest, I've seen some rather disturbing stuff as a child, played violent games, seen some in-family BS, been training Judo for 9 years, and other Martial Arts my whole life, AND YET no matter which one of my friends, ex-girlfriends you ask, they'll tell you that I'm a nice person. I don't endorse violence, no matter how much I'm used to it.

I agree that today's youth is...well...broken for the most part, but dropping this on games is not the right way, closing up the aggressive kids somewhere is not the right way, as most psychologists will tell you that the aggression is just an outcry of far deeper problems. Yeah I know what it sounds like, but trust me, as a kid one of the most important things you can get is respect, love and time from parents, and if this three things are not given, then a kid may go awry on you.

In my view, games are not the issue, parents are.

Unrelated: I LOVED constructor! We did have this in school, never could find it again later... :D

[vilas 473]

but you never played "police and robbers"

not when i was kid, not "in socialist society"

we had in TV cult of science

i enjoyed with friends playing footbal, glue models, construct furniture or looking how Tom is making his loudspeakers etc. in college (secondary school in PL) or his first amplifier for guitar

It's pretty much like saying that listening to rap will make kids smoke weed and become gangsters, doing drive-by's.

i live in Praga, it is "Polish Brooklyn" and i see how big is difference in growing of youth comparing to me growing in socialism time

they play violent games, they listen to rap and they are very rude, agressive, self confident instead of shy, noone teaches them savoir-vivre, they can kick or spit on older woman on street and such like

they not play football as we, they sit on bodybuilding taking amfetamine , they train martial arts and rob in schools

in socialism we had "klub młodzieżowy, klub modelarski" - model social club for teenagers... they were gone in begin of 90s :/

state officers took care that kids won't be gangsters but modellers, constructors , engineers ,

i was going on painting lessons to "pałac młodzieży" - lessons in pencil drawing in Pałac Kultury(palace of culture and science)

i see the difference between generations - my generation and my friends who grown on tv shows like "Laboratorium, Sonda, Rambit" (scientific shows about math, laboratory, science, physics) and young that play games, watch MTV and watch all day "gangsta movies"

and i think it should be cut and back to time when in tv all looked like Discovery Channel

but when you say about age 16-20 and games... man, i meant KIDS, they are 8-10-14

i don't mean teenagers or nearly grown people

i mean kids who are 8 or 12 and due to addiction to games are very agressive in home (which i know from my friends from work who have children in such age)

Edited June 28, 2011 by vilas