nethawk

Thanks to both of you! I've read that some people managed to find it written somewhere, but couldn't find that page myself. It was the licences page, thanks for showing it to me :) I'll happily wait for the actual content, just wanted to make sure the contribution came through :D Thanks for the help guys and thank you Bohemia for making such an awesome game and even more for supporting and growing such a friendly and helpful community!

Hello guys! I've just bought the Apex expansion and redeemed it, but can't see it anywhere in my steam account or Arma DLC content. Just wondering where it should show up as I tried looking pretty much everywhere, even consulted the forums for an hour to no avail.

Please don't give them ideas :P I played Dragon Rising, and while it's not OFP, it's an "ok" shooter, so I was kinda looking forward to atleast try RR, and saw the first ten minutes of gameplay (guess everyone did), I was destroyed. I mean seriously? I don't mind the swearing, and heroic BS talk, but....a crosshair? no aiming? WTF? running towards your enemy, gunz blazing?....jesus... It makes me a sad panda, but when even Battlefield and CoD are more realistic then a OFP title, it's a day to lower the flag, and abandon ship. Good thing only BIS kept at it, with the ArmA series, and while most of us will cry over the title, let's not forget, OFP is just a name, The Content is BIS.

Digital Distribution! Nice, while yeah, having a hard-copy and a nice box is fine and all, I prefer digital copies, as I don't need to worry about DVD's getting scrached, lost or otherwise damaged :D Thanks Bohemia, I was just pondering if I take CO or wait for X. One more thing through, I hope BAF and PMC are without DRM on this one? I know it sounds stupid, but I'm on the low-end as is, and can't really waste CPU cycles for DRM...

Whoa, thanks for joining in the discussion folks, started feeling like I am the only one believing in education over law :D

Seriously? really, really? Law's are there to protect the majority of people, NOT to hinder the education and growing up of people. Now as a law-person, you'll be familiar with this: "when >80% of the people are guilty of breaking a law, there is something wrong with the law, not the people". This is an ancient (roman I think) statement, it's one of the bases for "law change". Now, I don't care what I look like to a police officer. He has sworn to protect and serve the people AND the law. And since he doesn't know me, he has to show "some" respect. And so should you. For me this is just a sign of imaturity, stamping someone with a cliche, based just on his looks. Another thing, a police, or for that matter, any law enforcement, is entitled to only use EQUAL force, meaning they cannot use their P99 or any other gun for that matter on un-armed subjects. Wanna talk law? By law, a police officer has to report in, wait for response and THEN he can tell us to move. At the same time, he is not entitled to threaten ANYONE at all. Police officers, by law are not allowed, to threaten, insult or needlessly harm ANYONE. So, who's breaking the law now? I've had my fair share of problems with the police, but mostly cause they were ignorant and arrogant. Why is it that "beach security" personel comes up to us going: "hey guys, sorry to tell you, but you'll have to pack up shop, we can't allow you to have a party here.", while a police officer first threatens us? To bring this back on topic, this is another thing that makes kids go the way they go. Not even the police are being roll-models anymore. Elder people act like a**h***s, not even greeting back when you greet them, and parents are rather watching TV then to educate their kids. But you know what, it's alright, because we rely on people with not kids, no experience and no ethics to make laws which will protect us. And our protectors are aggressive, arrogant and ignorant, but it's perfectly fine, cause "we did all we could", and if the situation still sucks, we are going to blame it on TV! Yeah TV! those actors smoking in movies, and blurting one-liners like Duke Nukem, they are the problem....oh wait, there are games too! Yeah this is definetely the problem! it's those FPS games! let's ban them. vilas, don't take what comes next as an offense, but it's people that think like you do that made this mess. It's this train of thought that if someone can't think for themselves, we must think for them, what got us into this and many other problems. Instead of teaching society (e.g. our youth) and looking into making it easier for the next generation, all that is being done is to oppress people, filter there thoughts and control their lives, take responsibility away from them is the first step, and it's not alright. Living in a golden cage, is still life in a cage. Now if you're O.K. with it, sure do it, but the second you start building this cage around my life, I'm going to get angry. I don't care if you allow your kid to play a game. And I certainly don't care about those 10%, especially, not if you don't have better reasons. Parents that are radical in any way, will give this upon their kids, no matter the games. You don't need to ban FPS games to get rid of religious fanatics, and you surely don't need games to have bullies. Now you want to live in a Social State? You got Russia, China, Cuba and a couple others. Why don't you go and live there if life is better like that? it's too hard? not really and you know it. Stop being a Hypocrat, and think about it. Capitalism, Democracy and Freedom of Speech are the pillars of a responsible society. Sadly it's not as easy, since a responsible society means educated and mature society, but if we are to have any chance at all to reach that state, we must NOT allow law's to take responsibility away from us, we must rather embrace responsibility and teach it to others. I really don't want to argue this points anymore, so peace out.

Ahm, no licence for bulldozer, and no licence at that points for anything, I did make my licences later on, but still I drove this stuff. And y'know, it's the kind of stuff that is a lot of fun. like I said, in todays society this is seen as wrong, but for me it was something beautiful and I WILL break the law to make this possible for my kids. I am 180cm tall and ~110kg. Training martial arts my whole life. Now tell me something, how intelligent does it seem to you, to threaten me? I don't want to fight, I don't like violence, but believe me one thing, I don't care if he has a uniform or not, noone threatens me. Now, like I said, everyone has a different view on this, so yeah everyone as he pleases.

Heh, I almost feel like you actually agree on the 40hours stuff with me. And yeah I can see the logic behind the "law, police, whatever" having to take care of it, still, it's wrong. And about the fork-lift: I have driven a scooter (50cc) at 12, driven a yamaha 1300 @ 14, had my own scooter @ 15, drove a bulldozer @12-14 (can't rememmber exact), did fly a plane @ 16, 17,18,19 (each year once or twice), did drive a boat @ 16, and drove a car for the first time @ 16. Hadn't had a single crash. The only difference is, I had people willing to show me how it's done. To go out there, take that one hour of their life, and teach someone. Another thing, I had my fair share (still have) of problems with the police, and laws in general. Especially when it comes down to, me and a couple friends, quietly drinking a beer at the beach @ 17, and two police officers walking up to us, demanding we leave or they'll beat us up. Y'know, if they'd have asked nicely we'd leave in peace, but not like that. Again, if the adults are acting like children, then don't expect the kids to be any better. If police officers threaten me, don't expect me to respect them, or for that matter to listen to 'em. I have been taught to greet older people, even if I don't know them, and I stopped doing it, cause they all looked at me, scared, like "why is he talking to me.." when all I said was "good day" or "good evening". Then there is the giving off your seat at the buss, you wouldn't believe how many weird looks I got for doing that. So, if that is what society and police/law are teaching the kids this days, then guess what, it's them who are making it a "jungle". I have a nephew now, he's almost 2, and I'm taking the time of my schedule to play with him whenever I got the time, cause I know, he won't learn squat in school, and I know he won't learn responsibility in society and school, so it's on us to teach him. And tell you what, I have already bought his first knife, and he'll get it at age 6, to learn that it's a dangerous thing (like we all had to), and to learn to wield it, use it, and respect it. Teaching him to respect life, and living beings is our responsibility. Now the law will be against my nephew having a knife in a drawer in my house/apartment, but I know I will keep it secure, and can teach him something. So saying that for 10% we have to make rules for the rest, I'm okay with that, just as long as I can decide how I will raise my kids. I don't have a problem with games being banned for <18 year old people, on the contrary, I wouldn't allow 'em until 16 atleast! But this rules are forbidding for me to decide which games this are, and WHEN my kid is ready to play them. So I'm really left with either bowing down to a dumbed down society, and letting my child being educated by laws, or being an outlaw. Does this seem right? I strongly believe that it's the knowledge and respect for EVERYTHING that makes it secure, and not security messures and laws. Dumbing down people with giving them laws will just result in more laws needed, and you as a law-person should know that.

Maybe we should agree to disagree? Honestly said, while I see where you're headed, and I can agree on "some" points, the general idea of what you're saying is for me complete BS. parents spend anywhere from 8 to 12 hours on the job, with a free day in the week (normal populus). Now, we usually sleep anywhere between 6-8 hours, so, you get 40hours of freee time per week at minimum (excludin sleep). 40 hours to do whatever you want. You could play with your kids, you could take 'em for a walk, there are hundreds of possibilities. The reality is, parents come home, and sit on the couch watching TV those 40 hours. They don't want to play with their kids, they don't want to have a good time with them, they want to watch TV, in silence and peace. Now you can advocate this as much as you want, but these parents should just STFU when their kid does become another "angry teenager", as they did not do squat to change that. But yeah, sure let's just drop all responsibility to laws, and let's just say "we did all we could". Like I said, it might be best to agree on disagreeing, as we have different standpoints about parenting and the impact of social life on our lives, which has nothing to do with video games, and yet affects them all the way. Agreed? :P

@vilas took me some time to write it :P Anyway, I've read through what I missed, and while you have a bit of a point you're neglecting quite a few others. For instance, the idea of interchanging one addiction with another isn't new, nor bad, it actually works, BUT what you fail to mention there, is the point of surroundings. Now you can get a person of a certain addiction fairly easy, with substitution, but the re-lapse effect is almost 90% when they have friends/family which are taking/addicted to the primary addiction. I am saying this, because I've seen it happen, a lot of times, and I've tried to help, even learned about the psychology of addiction etc. Now where does this come into play? Well, suppose you can get one or two of those teens to work with science. Ok, but all their friends will be out on the street smoking pot. Guess what? They will relapse, and go back out there, and if you try to force them, it's gonna end even worse. What you really want to do is get the whole group into another addiction. This is especially problematic after the point, when the addicted has decided to break contact with non-addicted folks. First you have to understand, that he now has a new family, which pressures him into the addiction, then you have to think about approach, you can't just walk up to someone like that, as the group will protect their members, and you know what that means. So...no, it doesn't work like chemistry. People are complex beings, which can't be changed just like that. This is why I am stressing so much, that it's the parents responsibility, AND fault if neglected, to teach and educate a child, to show him what's right and whats wrong, EVEN BEFORE the bloodlust, aggression, or other addiction comes into play. I think this is the only reasonable way to "get rid of the problem". And for me, blaming video games, is just an excuse for personal failure at the parenting level. I'm sorry to say that, and I'm sure many of the people whose kids are like that are fine folks and all, but I still think they made mistakes, a lot of them. Now, onto school shootings and suicides etc. Yes this is a "combination" of factors, but I think you give games a too big influence here. And the criminal rate from 1994 - 2005, oh c'mon. The population got bigger, we had more then 2 big wars inbetween, and economic crysis, a gang-war (westSide vs. eastSide), and many many more things. I am not saying that violent games can't be a factor, and I'm definetely against giving them to anyone <16. BUT making laws to prohibit that, FORCING people to obey such logical laws is in my opinion stupidity. It doesn't help shielding the kids from this stuff, it never has, and it never will, the only thing that can help is teaching them responsibility, and showing them why violence is bad. Again, it all falls on us, the society, the parents and the teachers, and not to some abstract laws (no offense there). If we don't do anything to show these kids anything better, they will learn from movies and games. But if we take it upon ourselves to teach them, then we can make a change. I have teached some people martial arts, and I have teached some on programming, web-design, and many other things. Most of these people, are good folks, with smaller (and sometimes larger) mental problems. I am talking from chronic depression to plain old low-self esteem. And I have teached kids to work with computers, shown 'em the beauty of code, and this is how we made a difference. So I worked in a cyber-caffee, and this kids came in as CoD gamers, smoking weed, being gangsters and all that. After a while they started hanging out with me more and more, looking at what I was doing. So I've shown 'em programming, and some were interested others not. So we decided to make lessons on cyber stuff, from photoshop, video editing, programming etc., but we kept it on the interesting side, not the theoretical. Now, a year later two have gone back to school, another one has found a job as small-time graphics designer, and the others, well...they got away from the gangsta BS and started a life. This might sound like a story, and I probably can't do squat to change that, but it's true. Sadly we had to close shop, because of some BS laws, and other organizations wanting our space. But we know we did "some" good in the meantime, and I'm sure we did much more with letting them play CoD on our PC's and then slowly showing them the other stuff, and not just stamp them away as "angry gangsta teenagers". Again a long post, I know. But it's hard conveying my ideas clearly without pointing stuff out explicitly.

@Tonci87 Thanks, already thought I'm the only one seeing it like that :D @Katipo66 Agreed, it's a shame really. I remember when I used to sneak up on my neighbours cherry tree and grab some cherries, and he would sneak up on me (@ 70 years), and go "WhatAreYouDoingUpThere!GrabbingCherriesAreWe!!!" in a low pitch voice (and he spoke fast while doing that, so the lack of spaces). Then he started laughing seeing my face up in the tree, completely buff :D Well, it ended with him giving me a bucket, and me harvesting some cherries for me, and another bucket for him :D Ahh nice times, and nice people. @vilas I wasn't as lucky to have "clubs" that teach you something around. We learned from our elders, from neighbours etc. but pretty much, yeah, we did repair our mountain-bikes, learned our share of house-building, metal works etc. it were nice times. Also, yeah, like I said, and like you said, kids these days are rude, and have no respect of anything whatsoever. And while I agree that violent games don't help such kids, I cannot and will not agree that it's the games causing the problems in the first place. Also, don't know how you folks in Poland train martial arts, but let me tell you how it worked for us. If your trainer found out we were in a fight, no matter who started it, we got a fight with him..which is to say...not nice. If he found out that we started a fight...well...never happened to me, but as his words were "it will not be a good day for you" I don't think I need to point out, that martial arts are for training the body, and the mind, and not about violent fighting. As I see it, in the ages between 0-8 parents and family are very important, and a kid has no idea what fiction is and what reality is. So, no violent games for them, from there till 12, I don't think kids should be treated quite as foam-coated (e.g. shielded) from the world, let them see what it is, how it looks etc. but keep a close eye on 'em. Now from there it really depends. I did a whole lot of non-Virtual activities, from martial arts training to mountain biking, by the age of 14 I was allowed to drive a bulldozer, learned lock-picking from a police officer, and from there it just went on. So yeah, a lot of thing to do. But then there are those long winter days, and nights, when my parents wanted me to "learn for school", which of course I didn't do, rather I played IL-2 over the internet, being part of a team, a group, a clan, playing a game with so many people, most of them mature, and just having a blast got me through those months. And I learned a lot of stuff there, respect for elders (well I had that before...but still), working in a group, working towards the greater good (mission), leading a squad even. So, for me this was a good point and it's why I advocate games, as with the right people, even seemingly violent games turn into something more, something which isn't just about violence, but about much more then that. Let's take for example ArmA (didn't see that coming, now did you? :P ). It's a game about warfare, about violence, and it's shown pretty blunt. But I think you all will agree, that when we look past what is on the screen, and into the part which we see when playing, it's about much more. You have a role to play, and your team counts on that, you have a squad to lead, and loosing them feels sad, and wrong. AND not to forget, once you are online, you're part of a mature community, working within it, and often you have to suck-it-up for the community, and just not say something what you think, because it would make the community look bad, for example, when explaining what arma is all about to non-players, you have to take care not to call someone a SOB or something like that. One of the points I want to stress here, is just that I don't think that it's the violence per-se that is a problem, since being with the right people even in "violent" games or "acts" (Martial Arts training/tournaments) will make it a whole different thing. Just to make sure I delivered my point right: It's not the violence per-se which is a problem, it's our look on it, and this look on it is being influenced heavily with the world we surround us with (e.g. the folks around us.)

^- Made lot's of models myself, it's a great hobby, sadly I lack the space for them now. I know what you mean, but you never played "police and robbers" on the schoolyard? nothing like that? I don't want to step on anyones toes, just saying that thinking that violent games will make kids agressive is BS. Through there is the school shootings and other stuff taking it as a "primary" reason is BS. There are far deeper layers of the psyche at work there. It's pretty much like saying that listening to rap will make kids smoke weed and become gangsters, doing drive-by's. Now, everyone can speak of personal experience, and mine isn't the nicest, I've seen some rather disturbing stuff as a child, played violent games, seen some in-family BS, been training Judo for 9 years, and other Martial Arts my whole life, AND YET no matter which one of my friends, ex-girlfriends you ask, they'll tell you that I'm a nice person. I don't endorse violence, no matter how much I'm used to it. I agree that today's youth is...well...broken for the most part, but dropping this on games is not the right way, closing up the aggressive kids somewhere is not the right way, as most psychologists will tell you that the aggression is just an outcry of far deeper problems. Yeah I know what it sounds like, but trust me, as a kid one of the most important things you can get is respect, love and time from parents, and if this three things are not given, then a kid may go awry on you. In my view, games are not the issue, parents are. Unrelated: I LOVED constructor! We did have this in school, never could find it again later... :D

Don't know about you folks, but I for one don't think video games should be banned. I've been 12 or 14 when I got my first computer, back in the days, it was a Pentium 100Mhz, top of the top! Now sure, what do you do with computers? You play games of course! I played NASCAR, and SimCopter, but also something more interesting, can't remember the name but it was a combat-helicopter game, and not to mention Doom. I rememmber I had nightmares of monsters ripping me apart after playing Doom, but I still played it. After that I started playing other "FPS" (read violent) games such as UT, IL-2, OFP, etc. and I don't think I became a crazy nut. And so it's with many people I know. We played games when we were young, much too violent games for todays "peaceful and educated society", but we are the ones who made our school, who decided to go to university and make something out of our lives. It's not like we decided to become killers cause we played Doom, now is it? I think this rules that ban kids from all violence, sexual themes etc. are just another way to "correct" kids, when there is no need for that. My father for instance (he's 58 now), played "cowboy and indians" when they were young. A game of "mentally shooting" others. Did they turn out bad? In the middle ages they played being the knight, "slaying his oponents", and again I ask, did they turn out bad? To the older folks among you, how many Western movies did you watch from 16-20? What I want to say with this is, today's society blames kids for not being adults, but doesn't blame the parents for not teaching their kids. I have seen all the crying and kicking in stores, and y'know what? We were no better! The only difference is, how the parents tackle the problem, for instance in Slovenija the parents are not allowed to hit their kids. This might seem like a good idea, but think about it. Youre in a store, and your kid starts crying, kicking, and generally making a mess of the place....what do you do? Scream back? Can't do that, that psychological violence. Give him a smack around the ears? Can't do that either. Stand around while he screams? yeah...try it. So, whatcha gonna do? Kids shouldn't be treated like grown ups, because they don't understand all the concepts and bigger pictures that the grown-ups have to face daily. But they shouldn't be "shielded" from everything, as this is no good for them either. Now ask yourself, how much non-violent games (real or PC, Lego, model car chases etc.) have you played as a kid? To sum this up, kids will become just as responsible as they're parents and dropping everything on the state to educate them, will result in serious problems for them. So I think such laws shouldn't be even considered, but rather should the parents decide what the kid should and shouldn't do. Parents live with their kid, they seem him daily, and they know if he can see the difference between reality and fiction, and they can easily make a proper decision if they want to. My $0.02

Why does noone see this as a standalone game? I mean, look at it this way, this is a community preview, most of the features are not included yet, and from what I could gather it will play like SimCopter with a modern and realistic touch. Now I don't know about you folks, but I know lot's of people (including myself), that would love to play that. Especially, because of Co-Op and Multiplayer, making this a truly one of a kind game. The premise of flying civilian helicopters in a realistic (semi-realistic) setting and realistic/semi-realistic controls, and doing missions like extinguishing fires, finding lost people, high-sea rescue missions is intriguing and will probably result in a great game. This said, I hope they include some of the stuff/technologies in Arma2/3. Still I think most people are underestimating the potential that this game has. There are literally dozens of arcade wanna be air-warfare games out there, but lately no-one dared to touch the civilian flight, as it's hard to create content for it. my $0.02.

NICE! Just been looking for this! Heh, my OFP CD's are somewhere in a closet, probably beaten up good (moved a lot of times), so getting those will be nice. For me through the best is having Arma2, OA, BAF, PMC all rolled into a single package, this way I don't need to buy everything seperate (or even in 2 packs). One question through, since it's the 24th and all....WHERE do I buy this? Preorder is fine with me, but I need shipment in EU (Slovenija), so.... And no, I don't speak slovakian or czech, so if anyone spots this as release or pre-order with shipping, gimme a link pretty please.