Windows 8

[chiefredcloud 10]

Hell, (can I say that?) I'm a Windows Junky. I think I've had every windos put out except the very first. But I have my doubts about this one. Perhaps when more is released on it I will change my mind. Till then, Windows 7 is just fine.

[mrcash2009 0]

Still using XP is of course everyone's own choice, but come on, the OS is over 10 years old!

Yes it is, and?

OS isn't a Car or Washing machine :)

Funny I thought that's exactly how MS see it per release :)

Windows 7 is the most excellent OS ever created by Microsoft, and has a lot of improvements over XP, and also Vista, ref security, performance and usability.

Face it Sickboy your a corporate slut and have shares in MS, your compromised and you know it sunshine, I bet you had a MS tshirt on when you posted that and you also have a poster in your room with the current MS dev team :p

Its funny though, you mention your happy with XP (as in I did mention it) ... because, its supported, it works, it works becuase if it didn't I could not even have this posting now play Arma2 well enough, and well, at the end of the day it works for me and has no issues.

Never said for one moment 7 was bad or anything, im looking forward to updating when I feel the need to. But for me anyway mate security .. no issues had (just had a security update only a day ago) firewall software all doing its job, performance best for my rig (not newest of course compared to Vista which I never likes anyway) usability ... it does everything I need without getting in my way, so ... I personally dont need to change "at the moment".

Just to annoy you im going to get 7 then run a emulator of windows 95 inside and only run everything via DOS and PM spam you with text dumps of 95 logo and quotes of "xcopy *.* " with multiple tickets to ACE2 of windows 95 compatibility issues with phrases such as "ZOMG!" etc :)

As soon as I get a new rig (up to the release of Arma3) it will ship with 7 ... and thus, I will have 7 ... for now XP = bish bosh.

Edited June 30, 2011 by mrcash2009

[-martin- 10]

Face it Sickboy your a corporate slut and have shares in MS, your compromised and you know it sunshine, I bet you had a MS tshirt on when you posted that and you also have a poster in your room with the current MS dev team :p

Not everyone who likes Windows 7 is "a corporate slut" and "has shares in MS" , Most people that use Windows 7 didn’t even buy it. To get to the point:

I've been using Windows since Windows 3.1, I was very satisfied with Windows 3.1, 95 and NT 4.0. There are however version of windows that I wasn't satisfied with such as Windows 98 and Windows ME, from my experience they were horrible, full of blue screens and errors.

To be honest I never liked XP, I didn't like the Luna theme and until SP1 came out XP was just as notorious for blue screens as Windows ME. XP is probably the OS that I re-installed the most (countless times) :crazy:. I stuck with Windows 2000 for a long time until I eventually gave up and switched to XP when I got ready built PC, I still had plenty of blue screens and reinstalls over the years after SP2 tough.

When Vista came out, yeah it lagged, because I had a PC built for Windows XP but after upgrading my PC it wasn't that bad and I never had to re-install it. Windows 7 made a huge performance improvement over Vista, didn't require any higher system specs and added lots of good features so why is it a crime to be pleased with Windows 7? I'm glad that it came out, I hated XP, Vista wasn't so good but 7 is something that I finally like since... Windows NT :butbut:

Yes it is, and?

Give XP a rest, it’s a run down, old and tired grandpa. Although some people might not benefit from switching to 7 in anyway which is perfectly alright, there are plenty of new features in 7 that are very useful like the new task bar which makes me more productive (pinning down your favourite apps, rearranging them etc...) the search function in the start menu (very helpful), larger thumbnails, recently open documents in the start menu for every application, aero peek (very handy when saving/looking for files), I could go on but you have to experience it yourself, after some time in 7 you won't go back to XP.

Besides I would just switch because of the ugly old Luna UI, makes me wanna puke every time I see it and the blue screens of course :bored:

Just by recommending a new version of Windows to someone because of new features doesn’t mean you bum lick M$, how do you expect to make progress if the world would constantly be tied down to a previous generation of OS, you people don’t realise how much time has passed since XP was released, I still lived in Canada back then :biggrin:

[Maddmatt 1]

Agree, Windows XP is on its deathbed and it's time to leave it behind.

Even Ubuntu Linux is a better OS now...

Windows 7 is a pretty damn good OS. I got it through my university's MSDN program before release. Never wanted to see XP again after switching to it.

Despite also having access to Vista I didn't bother with it, stuck with XP until 7 was out.

[Mr. Charles 22]

Most people that use Windows 7 didn’t even buy it.

I didn't buy it but use it every day. MSDNAA ftw

[birtuma 28]

Games for Linux is a support disaster. For games there is no consumer PC-OS as well-suited and supported as Windows.

For one thing, Linux isn't a company or even an OS distribution on it's own, many flavours and other options seems to make it less ideal too.

Mac would be better than Linux for games; it's also unix based, and again there's a large company backing it with Support.

That's just wrong.

[MrBump 10]

That's just wrong.

Which bit and why??

[birtuma 28]

The bit I quoted.

Support has nothing to do with game developing. I actually don't even understand how he could come to this conclusion. First of all, why do you need support for an OS if you want to play with it? I mean, Nvidia and AMD have Linux drivers for their GPU, this drivers have excellent support for OpenGL etc. It's not a problem to start a game on Linux. And the second thing is... I take Canonical as example. If you really need support (maybe because you don't know how to install the GPU drivers), there is a huge amount of Ubuntu forums, in every common language, use it. There is even a huge official forum, haven't seen a such thing for Windows.

Windows is well suited? Wait, if I install it, do I get a good browser, email client, office suite, chat client, drivers, packaging system, security updates for all apps and much more? Same story on Mac.

And Mac is not better for gaming. Actually I don't even think that you can earn more on games for Mac than on games for Linux. And that's the reason why: http://www.humblebundle.com/

Edited July 2, 2011 by birtuma

[Tonci87 163]

Win7 x64 Professional through MSDNAA FTW :D

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Lots of words

Developing for multiple platforms isn't always trivial either (unless you're using some middleware that's platform independent). But the reasons for developing games mostly for windows are that 1. it's very common and 2. because that's how it's always been. Sure, I bet devs could start developing for other platforms but the question is whether or not it's worth it.

[birtuma 28]

Developing for multiple platforms isn't always trivial either (unless you're using some middleware that's platform independent).

Well, I wouldn't say, it's too difficult. You just have to use multiplatform technology (OpenGL, OpenAL etc), and you should also pay attention to specific OS things, like paths etc.

But the reasons for developing games mostly for windows are that 1. it's very common and 2. because that's how it's always been. Sure, I bet devs could start developing for other platforms but the question is whether or not it's worth it.

1. Yes, this is true.

2. No, there were many games for Linux in the past.

[-martin- 10]

Support has nothing to do with game developing. I actually don't even understand how he could come to this conclusion. First of all, why do you need support for an OS if you want to play with it? I mean, Nvidia and AMD have Linux drivers for their GPU, this drivers have excellent support for OpenGL etc. It's not a problem to start a game on Linux. And the second thing is... I take Canonical as example. If you really need support (maybe because you don't know how to install the GPU drivers), there is a huge amount of Ubuntu forums, in every common language, use it. There is even a huge official forum, haven't seen a such thing for Windows.

Well, Linux can beyond doubt handle the kind of games that run on Windows and Mac can handle them too in most cases and from my point of view and from the point of view of most other graphic designers out there, the more platforms games are made for the better, because there is a larger demand for us and more work for us as a result.

So yeah, the more games for Linux the happier I'll be. But now let's snap back to reality and why most devs make games for Windows.

Money and popularity

We live in a society governed mostly by money, without money you're nothing, so naturally companies look to make the most revenue as possible, to do this they need to reach the most people as possible.

So let’s take a small developer that is just setting up their first company, they will spend a lot of money on developing a game and they need to get that money back, so the obvious thing to do is develop the game for the most widely used OS (Windows) and start generating some cash, stick the "Games for Windows" logo on it and generate cash from kids, teenagers etc... Who’s goanna buy a game that says "Game for Linux" on it, most people out there don't even know that Linux exists and if they do the average opinion about it is: "It’s a OS for hackers bablabla", so not much profit would come back from that direction.

BIS could have developed OFP for Linux or Mac, I doubt that most people here would play it or even know about it tough. :j:

Games on a Mac

I mean come on... I used the Macintosh Classic back in the day and there were games on it, I had fun but who is the largest consumer of games? Kids and teenagers, who is goanna buy their 9 year old kid a Mac for £1200 just to play games on it, not many ordinary people, instead they will buy a cheap PC for $400 from Dell that comes pre-installed with Windows. Windows gets the job done, so why would they even think about installing Linux. If the Dell came pre-installed with Linux and had the popularity of Windows nobody would give a toss about Windows too.

When I had the Macintosh Classic computers weren’t so wide spread and financially accessible as they are now, it’s only when Windows 95 came out that they boomed and that’s why developers still make games mostly for Windows, its popular and accessible, at the end of the day, popularity and accessibility is what matters not Open GL and Linux, most people don't even know what that is and they don't care.

I could argue and get angry about why there are less apps for my LG Viewty phone and tons of apps for the iPhone, why don't devs make apps for my phone? :)

Most people in Eastern Europe can't afford a Mac but they will always stick together some old PC and play games on it

So the morale of the story is: Stop telling people how great OpenGL and Linux is but rather get Linux out there, let ordinary people experience and notice it, make it popular and the rest will come by itself. That’s what Microsoft did, they made it affordable for people to get a PC and they’ve been riding the wave ever since.

Windows is well suited? Wait, if I install it, do I get a good browser, email client, office suite, chat client, drivers, packaging system, security updates for all apps and much more? Same story on Mac.

Purely from my point of view and experience:

- Do I get a good browser: Depends on what your definition of “good†is. At work IE is enough, at home I prefer FireFox although when I’m on Linux Konqueror is OK too.

- Email client: I use Live Mail, I’m satisfied, for my e-mailing it’s all I need and I probably wouldn’t tell the difference if I had anything else.

- Office suite: I don’t like Open Office so I don’t care if Linux or Mac has it or not, I prefer MS office, besides that’s what we use at work so there aren’t compatibility issues.

- chat client: My favourite is the real ICQ client, when I’m on Linux I use Pidgin because there is no real ICQ client like on Windows, although I hate Pidgin and hope that one day ICQ will release a client for Linux too.

- Drivers: No problem with drivers on Windows, on Linux Mint and Kubuntu I had issues with my graphics card tough.

- packaging system: I agree.

- Security updates for all apps: Providing that you get your apps legally you will get security updates if there are any.

The morale is not to stick with something just because of its name but stick with what works for you.

[mrcash2009 0]

@Martin .. You did realise you reacted to the sections of my post that were a joke and sarcasm towards Sickboy for a laugh, and not remotely real right?

I dont hate nor defend corporations personally, never once hated on windows 7 either if you read my post correctly :) What I was posting was about windows 8 and how it looks like a tablet pushing finger using touch screen loving interface "powered by windows 7".

Give XP a rest, it’s a run down, old and tired grandpa.

No, I still use it right now, thanks :)

Edited July 2, 2011 by mrcash2009

[-martin- 10]

@Martin .. You did realise you reacted to the sections of my post that were a joke and sarcasm towards Sickboy for a laugh, and not remotely real right?

Partially yeah, but then again I've seen people say stuff like that and take it dead serious so I can't be sure , but you did bring out a good point so I thought I'd just leave my thoughts on it for anyone who really does think that.

I find ignorance a giant barrier in technological progress, from people that stick to Windows because they "hate Mac" and Mac users that stick to Mac because it’s cool and then Linux users come in and go on about how Linux is better in functions that normal users don't even have a clue about. All in all they are just supporting companies in producing useless overpriced crap instead of forcing companies to come up with something truly innovational.

All in all people need to stick to what works for them instead of mindlessly using stuff that they will never need or staying with products because they don’t like the name of others (and I don’t mean you in anyway way when I say that). :smile: But there are a lot of cases in which XP users spread rumours around that 7 is bad etc... Which eventually magnify so much that people believe them.

Edited July 2, 2011 by -Martin-

[birtuma 28]

So the morale of the story is: Stop telling people how great OpenGL and Linux is but rather get Linux out there, let ordinary people experience and notice it, make it popular and the rest will come by itself. That’s what Microsoft did, they made it affordable for people to get a PC and they’ve been riding the wave ever since.

1. Telling people about Linux is a good thing.

2. Yes, Linux distributions should really promote more their OS, there are already some affords to make Linux more popular. Mark Shuttleworth said that he targets 250 millions users in few years. We'll see.

- Do I get a good browser: Depends on what your definition of “good†is. At work IE is enough, at home I prefer FireFox although when I’m on Linux Konqueror is OK too.

I meant only software which is installed "out-of-the-box". So, IE8 compared to Firefox 4 or 5 or Chromium is a bad browser, at least in my opinion.

- Email client: I use Live Mail, I’m satisfied, for my e-mailing it’s all I need and I probably wouldn’t tell the difference if I had anything else.

Live Mail? You mean this Hotmail shit? If you have more than one ad-free e-mail account, you need an email client.

- Office suite: I don’t like Open Office so I don’t care if Linux or Mac has it or not, I prefer MS office, besides that’s what we use at work so there aren’t compatibility issues.

Again, I meant only preinstalled software. Everything what you buy later doesn't belong to Windows as "well-suited" OS. On Windows is only Wordpad as the office suite preinstalled. Do you prefer LibreOffice or Wordpad? :D

- chat client: My favourite is the real ICQ client, when I’m on Linux I use Pidgin because there is no real ICQ client like on Windows, although I hate Pidgin and hope that one day ICQ will release a client for Linux too.

1. Only preinstalled software! What do you have there? msn messenger? :D Ok, Microsoft bought Skype few weeks ago, maybe they will improve all the messaging part of Windows.

2. There is an official Linux ICQ client and it's shitty, full of ad etc and not really functional. On Ubuntu I can even twitter and chat on Facebook through the messaging app.

- Drivers: No problem with drivers on Windows, on Linux Mint and Kubuntu I had issues with my graphics card tough.

Yes, if you install the drivers later. Out of the box Windows has less drivers, so you have to look for them on the internet and on CD's...

- Security updates for all apps: Providing that you get your apps legally you will get security updates if there are any.

Windows provides only updates for their system, not for all apps. This apps have to do it on it's own with own update systems like in Firefox, Flash etc.

[-martin- 10]

I meant only software which is installed "out-of-the-box". So, IE8 compared to Firefox 4 or 5 or Chromium is a bad browser, at least in my opinion.

If you compare the features and technical specs, performance etc... then yeah, IE8 is the "worst" out of all of them. But what I was trying to say is that it becomes more difficult to compare browsers if you compare them based on specific tasks.

So at work the IE that comes pre-installed with Windows is perfectly usable, it lets me open tabs, look in the history, search on Google and that’s all I need and for the time I'm there and I'm satisfied, I would be satisfied with Konqueror or any other browser too.

In terms of making IE a good browser out of the box, Microsoft has a lot of work to do and that’s where they should focus their attention, not on silly UAC controls that just piss people off.

...

The same goes for other apps like ICQ client, even if Linux comes pre-installed with Pidgin I still don't care because its crap and I don't like to use it, but I have to. Mail client is the same, from my rare e-mailing I can't spot the difference between Live Mail (Live mail is an e-mail client known as Windows Mail on Vista, nothing to do with MSN) and Thunderbird so I don't mind what program comes pre-installed with Linux or Windows as long as it’s usable. As far as I' concerned I'm happy with both apps.

Again, I meant only preinstalled software. Everything what you buy later doesn't belong to Windows as "well-suited" OS. On Windows is only WordPad as the office suite preinstalled. Do you prefer LibreOffice or WordPad?

I would rather use LibreOffice than WordPad, but yeah I understand what you mean, Windows needs better out of the box office apps and I agree with that, sadly because M$ also makes M$ Office they won't include better apps because then there would be no need to buy their office suite.

Anyway for work I'm pinned down to MS Office 2007 so even if Linux comes pre-installed with LibreOffice, makes no difference to me.

Yes, if you install the drivers later. Out of the box Windows has less drivers, so you have to look for them on the internet and on CD's...

That was certainly the case back in the day on Windows 9x and NT, but since Windows Vista I've never had to use a driver CD (probably not the case for other users but in my experience I never had to). Recently I bought a new motherboard bundle, installed it and never had to use the driver CD, in the past Windows even had drivers for my legacy hardware from the 90's that I was fooling around with, so even though M$ isn’t the best I'm very satisfied with their compatibility :butbut:

As for Linux, it has some catching up to do with drivers, not so long ago I installed Linux Mint and I couldn’t get my network adapter to work, I didn't have another PC around so I was at a dead end, no internet or graphics drivers

Windows provides only updates for their system, not for all apps. This apps have to do it on its own with own update systems like in Firefox, Flash etc.

Yeah that’s true, something like that in Windows would be awesome but I don't mind to update this way too.

Conclusion

Switching to Linux would make no difference to me in terms of personal computing, I wouldn't be able to make addons for ArmA tough.

Switching to Linux at work... In some cases it would work but Linux isn't ready, it doesn’t have the professional apps that I need.

So overall compatibility is the main issue that Linux needs to focus on, if I'm able to do what I do on Windows now and if I'm able to share files between Linux and Windows apps without any compatibility issues the there would be no point in paying M$ for Windows and I would switch.

Edited July 3, 2011 by -Martin-

[-martin- 10]

Hello everyone,

Some new information on Windows 8:

The developer BETA is out and can be downloaded here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/br229516

I tested it and so far this has basically changed (this isn't everything but things that you will fist notice):

• The new Metro UI is now the default user interference where as the old desktop seems to be a legacy app that you can access from the metro UI.
  

(You can see the Metro UI pop-up over the desktop sometimes like when you click start or insert a removable disk etc... meaning that Metro is the new "Windows" and the desktop is just an extra optional app - at least that what I think, I may be wrong)

• The start menu has been removed, replaced with a metro menu with 4 options.
  

• When you click the start button or press the Windows key you are taken to the Metro home screen where you can launch apps etc...
  

• The control panel has been re-designed and integrated in to the Metro UI
  

• Explorer (when you switch to the desktop) now has the ribbon
  

• .ISO images can now be mounted directly using Windows
  

• Task manager has been re-designed
  

Some screenshots:

The default UI

The "lock screen", drag it up to unlock the PC - not sure how this will come in handy unless you have some pad device.

Re-designed task manager

Desktop mode

My thoughts on the BETA:

The only thing that I like in the BETA is the integrated .ISO support. I think if released like this the OS will be good for people who only do social networking and basic internet browsing on some kind of tablet device. The OS will be a pain in the ass for advanced users and developers.

• I don't like that they removed the start button and force me to switch to a new UI with giant icons just to start a new program. I means seriously... the start button is the main place on the computer for me where I go to do basically everything - launch programs, search for programs, open disks etc... taking this away takes away 90% of my PC's usability – I don’t want to do this trough the Metro UI because its pointlessly complicated and the UI is ugly.
  
• I shouldn't be forced to ever switch in to the Metro UI if I don't want to, it’s good for touch screens and pads but not for me, I don't ever want to see it on my work PC.
  
• I don't like the ribbon in Explorer, I find it useless in Explorer and pointlessly cluttering the screen, but I can live with it - would be cool if I can hide it tough, probably I can.
  
• I don't want to be forced to see the "lock" screen on my PC, it’s kind of useless for me – but I’m sure there is an option to turn it off - I haven’t checked out everything in the BETA yet.
  

If they don't force me to ever see the Metro UI on my PC and give the start button back it will be a great OS, otherwise it’s useless to people who use it for work because it unnecessarily complicates basic things mainly by removing the start menu.

But it’s just a BETA so let’s wait and see :smile:

That’s my opinion on it, what do you guys think?

Edited October 23, 2011 by -Martin-

[Mr. Charles 22]

...snap...

Thx for the info Martin, i'll boot it up in a VM and test it :cool:

[Tonci87 163]

I think I agree with you. It seems to be good for Tablets and People that only do Facebook and some surfing, but its extremely shit if you are an advanced user.

[Dwarden 1125]

you can switch the old win 7 style interface easily, google it ...

the key advantage of w8 i see is the streamlining of components (stabler, easier to developer with and for)

[-martin- 10]

you can switch the old win 7 style interface easily, google it ...

the key advantage of w8 i see is the streamlining of components (stabler, easier to developer with and for)

I Goggled it and all that I found is that you can get the classic start menu back by doing this:

1. Launch the registry editor
   
2. Drill down to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer
   
3. Double-click on RPEnabled
   
4. Change the value from 1 to (zero)
   
5. Tap enter or click OK
   

Do you know if there is any other way?

However I have to be negative again, that's a bit too complicated for regular users, most people don't even know what the registry is and they shouldn't have to just to change this.

There should be a easy check box in the taskbar properties letting you change which menu you want to use. I'm pretty optimistic that this menu will change in the final version tough and there will probably be an option to use the classic one :smile:

[sickboy 13]

:D Always fun to see how people try to hold on to what they are used to. Always have to laugh about those XP users who revert to W2000 look, restore "My Computer" etc icons to the Desktop, etc :D

Re the registry - someone can make a .reg file that does it for you.

Perhaps they will make it a real option to switch in the final product..

One hint on the new start menu; press the start button and start typing what you are looking for,

and of course put your most used applications on the first page :D

[NoRailgunner 0]

Why some people can't wait until Windows 8 is released? :rolleyes:

Seems like they have nothing else to worry about than how it looks, sounds and which buttons are bigger than others....

[paragraphic l 2]

The ribbon can be hidden by pressing the arrow-up, top right.

win + type = search, find, start any app you like

win + f = search for documents

win + w = search for configuration options

you will see all results with either of the 3 shortcuts, they just start searching in the mentioned file types.

I really love what they've done with task manager, looks and works so much better.

If you follow their design process you really notice how they are making everything more user-friendly without dumbing down the OS.

[mrcash2009 0]

Always fun to see how people try to hold on to what they are used to. Always have to laugh about those XP users who revert to W2000 look, restore "My Computer" etc icons to the Desktop, etc

*smiles while reading this under XP using win98 standard look and "cool blue" theme and clicking on my computer to browse for something while typing*

You could also say people stick to what works for them until they upgrade and which justifies new O/S at that time :)

I know you dont like that Sickboy, so I will screen grab my desktop and put a 70's border around it with some cobwebs with the tag line: "I like it, it works for me" and PM a different variation with the mouse pointer with different clown sized icons in a different screen position each image post :)

Photo-shopped to perfection, then edited and synced to tailored audio and youtubed and vimeo'd just like it was dont under a later O/S :)

Anyway, I need to make a move and get to my shift at the mill, that reminds me I need to use my puncture kit on my Raleigh Chopper, where did I put my hipsters & blockerboots ... ?

Edited October 24, 2011 by mrcash2009