Going Cyclic; Blind Firing; Recon by Fire

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

I would like to see stressed A.I. "go cyclic", that is, fire blindly in multiple directions in an ineffective attempt to respond to undetected hostiles firing on their position (as in the sniper scene in "Hurt Locker").

This would include ZU-23's and other AA guns responding to a Shock & Awe attack.

Also, A.I. might "recon by fire", shooting single rounds into bushes and tall grass at intervals in order to flush out the enemy.

[instagoat 133]

I´d like to see something like this too. The AI right now only knows two states, either it knows where you are, or it doesn´t know where you are. IRL, most of the time you "approximately" know where the enemy is, which is why so much ammo is expended for each kill (was it 2000 rounds? I don´t remember where I found the statistics, nor what they stated).

Mods try to make combat more realistic by adding dispersion, which is a hack-job in my opinion, because if you clearly see the enemy, and you´re trained, all you do is place the sight picture, and pull the trigger. But like I said, trouble is most of the time you DONT clearly see the enemy, but you´ll still fire in their direction, instead of waiting for them to show.

This would be nice if implemented in a better fashion than in Arma 2, along with improved fear and suppression handling.

[maturin 12]

Anyone who has played this game for any period of time knows that the AI will make wild guesses as to the player's location and go on shooting at it for a long while after he has disappeared. They aren't going to pick random terrain features for death, however.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Anyone who has played this game for any period of time knows that the AI will make wild guesses as to the player's location and go on shooting at it for a long while after he has disappeared. They aren't going to pick random terrain features for death, however.

This.

[maturin 12]

And if the player wants to perform anything as context specific and generally inadvisable as recon by fire, it works just fine at drawing out the AI. Awfully difficult to teach them the proper moment to use it, though.

[LANCERZz 10]

This is a really good idea. It would be cool to have the AI actually show some emotions. The most passionate thing you'll hear out of an arma 2 AI is "FUCK! The bastards got [insert squad member number here]". Out of all the things I hated about Dragon Rising, one thing I enjoyed was hearing the panic and fear in the PLA voices as I wiped out their squad and closed in on them.

[sander 14]

Panicking behaviour including wild spraying fire would be a nice feature. It appears in the old Red Storm games like Rainbow 6 and the original Ghost Recon where it adds to the atmosphere.

Regards,

Sander

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

The human element is so important. I think even the Far Cry 1 demo's A.I. is superior to ArmA's in terms of appearing human. If it can be done on a game as lush as that one on the system specs that required, it should be possible in ArmA 3.

Other games that I thought had great A.I.: No One Lives Forever 1 & 2, Modern Warfare 2 (on some of the 2-player challenges), Unreal Tournament's bots, the F.E.A.R. demo.

Raven Shield and Ghost Recon 2's were pretty solid, too.

[HyperU2 11]

They'll be easy pickings once they're out of ammo. lol

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

Sure. I think most will take a pause after expending one magazine or drum, though.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I am more and more convinced the AI already does recon by fire. Numerous times I've noticed them shooting when I'm the only guy around they could possibly know about, and no bullets land anywhere near my direction. I get the feeling they are trying to make me blow my cover/hiding - and I do think this is a good thing: I'm getting feedback from the game, and I'm getting more scared, and the temptation of going on the hunt is overwhelming. Many times did I get killed because I go look for whoever is shooting, only to be nailed down by someone on overwatch. This includes snipers.

As for Shilkas - try setting them to suppress after revealing yourself (by script command). They will open up in unison from far away and there is not much you can do about it. I use it in combination with enemy AI scripted artillery. When shots "fired" everyone in the zone opens up preventing you from going anywhere so the arty rounds have effect. An believe me - it works! :D

[Brute Force 10]

I´d like to see something like this too. The AI right now only knows two states, either it knows where you are, or it doesn´t know where you are. IRL, most of the time you "approximately" know where the enemy is, which is why so much ammo is expended for each kill (was it 2000 rounds? I don´t remember where I found the statistics, nor what they stated).

In Vietnam it was roughly 50,000 rounds per kill, or around $60,000; but snipers averaged 1.3 rounds per kill, or $2. ;)

[2nd ranger 282]

I am more and more convinced the AI already does recon by fire. Numerous times I've noticed them shooting when I'm the only guy around they could possibly know about, and no bullets land anywhere near my direction. I get the feeling they are trying to make me blow my cover/hiding

It's because one of them caught a glimpse of you but they don't know exactly where you are. If you were to switch to one of those units you would probably have a red target icon pointing to the place they last saw you, or where they think you ended up. It's like when an AI commander gives you a target behind some trees and you follow the icon with your sight until it emerges from the concealment, but there is nobody there.

[BobcatBob 10]

It's because one of them caught a glimpse of you but they don't know exactly where you are. If you were to switch to one of those units you would probably have a red target icon pointing to the place they last saw you, or where they think you ended up. It's like when an AI commander gives you a target behind some trees and you follow the icon with your sight until it emerges from the concealment, but there is nobody there.

Wow, I never thought of it this way! I always thought the game was bugged...

[CarlGustaffa 4]

@2nd Ranger:

I have some idea on how the system works :) Describing how it feels like, which I could easily say it feels like recon by fire (or rather, my understanding of it). They shoot. I get curious and nosy. I loose my nose and then some. :D

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

As for Shilkas - try setting them to suppress after revealing yourself (by script command). They will open up in unison from far away and there is not much you can do about it. I use it in combination with enemy AI scripted artillery. When shots "fired" everyone in the zone opens up preventing you from going anywhere so the arty rounds have effect. An believe me - it works! :D

I would like to see video of this.

[metalcraze 290]

The human element is so important. I think even the Far Cry 1 demo's A.I. is superior to ArmA's in terms of appearing human. If it can be done on a game as lush as that one on the system specs that required, it should be possible in ArmA 3.

Far Cry AI is very retarded in everything else like combat and surviving though.

I don't want to pay that price.

Other games that I thought had great A.I.: No One Lives Forever 1 & 2, Modern Warfare 2 (on some of the 2-player challenges), Unreal Tournament's bots, the F.E.A.R. demo.

I'm afraid there is no AI in CoD, NOLF and FEAR. Figures that ride on rails to a nearby cover and just stop there playing shooting animations are not AI.

UT is a run'n'frag AI - it doesn't fit. And ArmA's one is way more intelligent.

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

Far Cry AI is very retarded in everything else like combat and surviving though.

I agree, and shocked that he cliams they are better.

I think the animals in Far Cry 1 were smarter than the AI.

It's Elite mode needs a 4x button... I could go on & on.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

Better as in more human.

You know what a human soldier does when he comes under fire?

He "rides on a rail" to the nearest cover, stops there, and animates firing from that cover in some fashion.

If you're looking for A.I. to play Good Will Hunting on a blackboard before taking cover, maybe YOUR expectations are a bit high.

[Birdy890 0]

That and we also need improved animations, cause as the engine is now, and how it still is from what I saw in the E3 videos, is that the action plays the animation, instead of the other way around.

this gets to be a problem when you're bandaging someone and the engine cannot physically stop you without having to press another button or playing another animation to break you from another animation.

or the whole "waiting to die" where if you're getting an AT weapon out and at the same time you get killed, it has to play through the animations of both getting the AT, and then playing the death animation. (fixed with rag-dolls, so maybe my post is becoming a ramble)

however as it is now with all eastern-european games (I'm lookin to you Men of War) the humans seem to be very "robotic" and could be fixed with more variation/idle animations, but as the engine handles anims, it's kinda not possible.

What I'm saying is that if you do add in AI elements, inspiring from Farcry/CoD/BF2 then you first need to rewrite the whole damn engine, otherwise you get some in-game dynamic sounds like "Watch out!" or "Take cover, lads!" (like in ECP for OFP or other mods similair for Arma2) with no real "soul" to them, they're still in their robotic states, and still not acting as "Human" as people would like...

Now as a side note, It works for Arma2, hell was even in OFP with the SLX mod, so I would definitely love to see suppression effects and "blind" firing, because not everyone shoots to kill, that's what Marines are for.

Edited June 19, 2011 by Birdy890

[2nd ranger 282]

Better as in more human.

You know what a human soldier does when he comes under fire?

He "rides on a rail" to the nearest cover, stops there, and animates firing from that cover in some fashion.

Yeah in alot of games, AI that looks good is mainly down to the way they are animated. Far Cry, CoD, Ghost Recon etc. They may not be the most intelligent, but dammit, they behave more human than in Arma. I still see people on the Ghost Recon forums starting threads like "OMG U KNO ITS BEEN 10 YRS AND GR AI IS STILL THE BEST LOL", but they don't realise it's mainly down to the animations and 'on rails' scripting. Once you get past those, you realise the AI in these games, GR in particular, is pretty simple and predictable. But when I shoot at some AI in Arma and they just drop to the floor and spin around, sometimes I think they could use a set of rails.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

Ah, another fine example was the A.I. in Far Cry 2.

While I admit that after a few hours of firefights I did learn to adapt to their tactics, the first few hours were very challenging.

And they seemed human.

[HyperU2 11]

The AI were fine in Far Cry 2, it was the need to shoot them in the head 5 times for a kill and the fact that they reappeared 10 seconds after you cleared a checkpoint that sucked.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

Agreed.

[Tonci87 163]

Well for me Far cry sucked in general. In nearly every aspect of the game to be honest