ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[T.S.C.Plage 0]

They can play CoD, BF and the like. That's what suits them. ArmA will just overrun their buffers.

[chortles 263]

Or their Arma interest is/was thanks to Battle Bus and the video antics of ShackTac... either way, E3 and Gamescom 2012 should have proven that BI would never refuse their money :icon_twisted:

I have to say I'm disappointed. But we can't do anything to change it.

What makes me the most upset is the use of the Steam Workshop. Why? Just, Why? :(

The existence of XCOM Nexus proves that Steamworks =/= Steam Workshop, because there is no Steam Workshop entry for XCOM: Enemy Unknown... so you're honestly just being unreasonable unless BI actually does announce Steam Workshop for Arma 3... and at this point I don't see the incentive for them in proving your concern valid. ;)

[-Coulum- 35]

They can play CoD, BF and the like. That's what suits them. ArmA will just overrun their buffers.

I don't get it. How does COD BF and the like suit lazy people any more than arma. In all of them we are sitting, staring at a screen and pressing buttons. Only difference is how quickly we have to press them. I had a couple of friends who were "to lazy" to fiddle around with arma and its user missions and mods. I wanted someone to play with though, so I set them up all there mods for them. Now we have been playing arma consistently ever since. And they started taking the initiative to update their mods and games themselves ones they realized how much it was worth it. None of their buffers were overrun...

[T.S.C.Plage 0]

I don't care if you get it or not!

[W0lle 1050]

Guys could you please continue in private message with who should play Arma and who not? It really adds nothing to this discussion. :)

[-Coulum- 35]

Guys could you please continue in private message with who should play Arma and who not? It really adds nothing to this discussion.

Sure, sorry. What I was alluding to was that just because steam is only really going to give "certain" users a considerable advantage in comparison to the six updater and what not, doesn't in any way mean it is not a good thing for the game/community/ or BIS as a company.

[Scoggs 1]

Personally I use steam every day and 90% of my games are bought there including Arma 2. I have had 0 issues with it over the past few years. While I only have 297 hours logged in Arma 2(steam version - running a lot of mods btw) I have only had one issue. Which was when they removed the option to launch A2:CO from steam.

I am honestly surprised at how many people will ditch BIS just because of some fanboi hate. Kinda sad really.

OT

Interested to see how this plays out in the future. Want to see it in action before passing true judgment on the features it may or may not bring.

[chortles 263]

Interested to see how this plays out in the future. Want to see it in action before passing true judgment on the features it may or may not bring.

Pretty much what concerns me -- at this point for anyone for whom mere Steamworks is a deal-breaker, there's nothing to say to them; what matters is what features Arma 3 has and does not have... for example, offline LAN/direct IP support or not.

[Scoggs 1]

Pretty much what concerns me -- at this point for anyone for whom mere Steamworks is a deal-breaker, there's nothing to say to them; what matters is what features Arma 3 has and does not have... for example, offline LAN/direct IP support or not.

Yes, I am very much interested in seeing this. However keep in mind it isn't like we are talking about EA or Activision here. BIS seems to have a somewhat vested interest in it's community. So while I can't say don't worry, I feel that we won't be disappointed. Or at least to the extent the hater fanbois are.

[chortles 263]

Heads-up: according to this article found by [FRL]Myke and elaborated on here, the German-language publisher of Arma and Arma 2 will be publishing the boxed version of Arma 3 (even if it's Steamworks) in Q3 2013 throughout western Europe, with the "standard five" English/French/Italian/German/Spanish (EFIGS) localizations.

Yes, I am very much interested in seeing this. However keep in mind it isn't like we are talking about EA or Activision here. BIS seems to have a somewhat vested interest in it's community. So while I can't say don't worry, I feel that we won't be disappointed. Or at least to the extent the hater fanbois are.

I have to imagine that when Maruk made the decision to go Steamworks, he knew that he'd be writing off anyone for whom that alone would be a deal-breaker... whereas other people are not like that but had poor user experiences with the Steam client in the past or are concerned over specific features or "stealing" of credit for mod work*, so they are the one who ought to be most addressed! Dwarden did say that Steamworks won't prevent use of third-party tools such as the Six suite or replace Web sites such as Armaholic, but he said that "we do fully understand the concerns about STEAM offline mode issues (login/LAN etc) and we will try improve / tweak that as much as possible". (He also mentioned that for anti-cheat, "for myself the only reasonable answer would be BE+VAC ... take it ofcourse as fully non-official".)

* In fairness, this one would seem to be as simple as saying that Arma 3 will not use Steam Workshop, since to my knowledge there's no actual "mod stealing" prevention (at a software level) right now -- only deterrence-by-calling-out-thieves, which is what Steam Workshop is accused of not providing.

[iceman77 18]

So we're automatically labeled "haters", just because we don't like being forced to use a 3rd party program if we choose to play ArmaIII? A series inwhich steam hasn't been necessary for over a decade, and now all of the sudden it's mandatory. I don't necessarily hate steam, I simply prefer not to use it, but I do hate the fact that if I'm to play Arma3, I'll be forced to use steam. Cutting out users options, especially in this case, isn't going to be warmly accepted by many. People tend to get upset, after many years with the series, they get a whiff of what may be the beginning of dumbing the game down. What did you expect?

Edited February 26, 2013 by Iceman77

[cuel 25]

Basically Steam is the reason why they needed extra time in the first place because they had to deliver a "special" version for them. It's also the main reason why there were that many hick-ups with patching everything to the same standard. The versions published elsewhere didn't have such problems AFAIK. So instead of getting rid of the cause or better staying away from the "thing" that caused all the problems they decide to solely go with it. :banghead:

You're just randomly guessing here aren't you?

I was being sarcastic. It's an uncommon issue when installing the game. Apparently, to some, steam is the problems savior. Anyhow, just a little friendly banter between pliskin & I. The whole "saving dev time" is the only viable excuse, that I've heard, about why we would need steam. Everything else, the whole steam social networking & game updates etc etc, can go in the wind. Those things simply aren't (or shouldn't be :rolleyes:) needed. It hasn't been so far. The community has managed just fine without steam for ~12 years. Any way you slice it, or try and glorify steam, it's an extra hoop to jump through for the user. Some of us don't care too much for redundancy, and it shouldn't be forced upon us if we choose to keep playing the series we've played for ages.That's the bottom line for most of the people who would prefer not to use the program. Also, I fail to see how forcing me to use steam will generate extra revenue. Can the persons who would choose to use steam (for other games or w/e), not see A3 available there? Where do I (we) come into play in generating this drastic increase in BI sales?

Also, there's plenty of loyal, able members of this community that could & would pick up any slack voluntarily...concerning dev time. I'd rather them reach out to the community than steam to help with dev time. While ofcourse those who prefer steam could still use steam... My2c.

The steam overlay UI is almost entirely external and is very easy to implement, as shown in several games on several different engines, even on indie games. I doubt that the implementation would take any significant amount of time. Joining friends is actually quite useful for some people, just because you don't need doesn't mean that no one wants it.

They stated why they're moving over to steamworks in the dev blog, it reduces cost (copying, shipping, external resellers), hence the 'increased revenue' (basically reduced costs). I haven't purchased a DVD copy of a game in several years, If I buy a game, it's on Steam. I would still probably buy A3 retail since I expect it to be a solid game, but if I had the option to choose I'd still choose Steam.

Edited February 26, 2013 by cuel

[Kuskov 1]

Does this mention anything about being Steamworks free -

http://www.gamefeature.de/2013/index...assault-3-raus

[maddogx 13]

Does this mention anything about being Steamworks free -

http://www.gamefeature.de/2013/index...assault-3-raus

1. Your link is broken.

2. Even without understanding German, a simple Ctrl+F to search for the word "Steam" would have answered your question.

(HINT: There is no mention of Steam in the article. ;) )

[[frl]myke 14]

Does this mention anything about being Steamworks free -

http://www.gamefeature.de/2013/index...assault-3-raus

A3 wouldn't be the first game released as boxed which then requires Steam activation. The Dev blog was very clear about A3 requiring Steam. I bought HL2 on Disc and after install it connected to Steam to authenticate and update.

[TehXenos 10]

I'm personally quite happy its going to be on steam, though I do understand some people getting irritated by not having the choice.

That said, they mentioned strongly in the devblog that without steam the 2013 release would be impossible. If the game had still not come out by the end of 2013 (the whole time in development costing them money) there could have been a serious risk of the game not coming out at all.

I mean, look at how many gaming companies have gone under in the past 6-12 months, and how many more are struggling? I'd much rather get a product locked to steam than a) wait longer, b) risk not having the game at all, and c) risk losing one of my favourite companies in the gaming industry.

[Kuskov 1]

Myke;2303742']A3 wouldn't be the first game released as boxed which then requires Steam activation. The Dev blog was very clear about A3 requiring Steam. I bought HL2 on Disc and after install it connected to Steam to authenticate and update.

Yeah that happened to me when I bought Kane and Lynch 2. Damn I was angry when I found out that I needed to go online before I could play in offline mode. I threw that game straight in the bin...

[OChristie 0]

Yeah that happened to me when I bought Kane and Lynch 2. Damn I was angry when I found out that I needed to go online before I could play in offline mode. I threw that game straight in the bin...

Must be terrible not having an internet connection.

Everyone needs to chill out a bit, yes A3 is coming on steam, stop the press! So?? Big deal, they have changed their distribution methods and maybe implemented a few steam-friendly features but the underlying game will be the same because it is using the Real Virtuality Engine. You can still create mods, you can still play online how you used too, just maybe the way you retrieve the servers is different. A lot of people are seriously acting like this is the biggest issue since they discovered they were glued to their computer chair due to lack of movement. There is 2 options, buy A3 or don't. Literally as simple as that, if you don't want to buy it I (the community and most probably BI) don't want to hear about it because its annoying that every 2 minutes a thread pops up about how wa*k or sh*t Steam is and how your going to boycott it! Great, then don't post stop looking for attention and a reaction and just leave the forums, close your account, go and do whatever you do in your steam-free life. The world is going cloud, web and mobile enabled so if your not happy to accept where gaming is going then, and im going to quote star wars, you need to go home and rethink you life. You all have an internet connection because im pretty sure you are all part of the 2,405,518,376 (June 30, 2012) on our planet that do so why is it such a problem to use steam? It is centralized content management and from a developers point of view is very very good! The only issue I can see is that if you live on a military camp as the firewalls they have may block steam, but there is so much technology on this planet that can give internet to you anywhere and any geo location on this earth. IMO and im sure im not alone, your moaning because you can. Simple, you don't like A3 on steam, then leave this section of the forums. :)

[Kuskov 1]

Must be terrible not having an internet connection.

If you check my post history you will find that I have already mentioned that I race a dirt bike for a living and need to travel interstate each weekend during the race season. Unfortunately most tracks are placed in remote locations so my internet connection is often poor and sometimes doesn't work at all. It isn't uncommon for us to spend 3-4 days a week driving and can get quite boring, but PC games help keep me entertained during long trips. Sorry you are dissapointed about my dissapointment, it's just that I was really looking forward to playing this game offline as I do with ArmA2.

[OChristie 0]

You still can, that has been confirmed, but like now when you have downtime, you can set steam to offline mode and play A3 on the road.

[chortles 263]

The steam overlay UI is almost entirely external and is very easy to implement, as shown in several games on several different engines, even on indie games. I doubt that the implementation would take any significant amount of time. Joining friends is actually quite useful for some people, just because you don't need doesn't mean that no one wants it.

I would however critique that the Steam Overlay is also available for non-Steamworks games and non-Steam games simply by adding them to one's Steam Library specifically as a non-Steam game.

They stated why they're moving over to steamworks in the dev blog, it reduces cost (copying, shipping, external resellers), hence the 'increased revenue' (basically reduced costs). I haven't purchased a DVD copy of a game in several years, If I buy a game, it's on Steam. I would still probably buy A3 retail since I expect it to be a solid game, but if I had the option to choose I'd still choose Steam.

You mean increased profit by reduced cost(s)... increased revenue is a matter of buys and price, and I imagine that "oh hey their Steam implementation sucks less than Arma 2's"* would be one of the selling points used to drive buys.

That said, they mentioned strongly in the devblog that without steam the 2013 release would be impossible. If the game had still not come out by the end of 2013 (the whole time in development costing them money) there could have been a serious risk of the game not coming out at all.

I mean, look at how many gaming companies have gone under in the past 6-12 months, and how many more are struggling? I'd much rather get a product locked to steam than a) wait longer, b) risk not having the game at all, and c) risk losing one of my favourite companies in the gaming industry.

BI wasn't in danger of going under**, the danger was the risk of not-meeting 2013 (explicitly stated) or not coming out at all (for obvious reasons not said by any of the devs, but that's a running guess in this thread by people such as antoineflemming).

* It's "sucks less", not "better"... "better" is giving Arma too much credit.

** As Rocket put it in his most recent video devblog: "dayz money lambo fleet" :p

[iceman77 18]

just because you don't need doesn't mean that no one wants it.

And I agree (as I've already stated), but on the contraire, just because some like it and want it, does that mean I should be forced to use it too, if I'm to play A3? :) It should be optional. BI has always been a small, niche developer until the last year or so. So all of the sudden, they need to seemingly "penny pinch" by reducing the companies cost of some cardboard, plastic & shipping? Albeit, thousands of instances. But still, if anything, and if ever a time, now they should have plenty of money to not worry about such things. But no, they got a small taste of the mainstream glory, so now steam is forced upon the users.

[Ekko 1]

A series inwhich steam hasn't been necessary for over a decade, and now all of the sudden it's mandatory. I don't necessarily hate steam, I simply prefer not to use it, but I do hate the fact that if I'm to play Arma3, I'll be forced to use steam. Cutting out users options, especially in this case, isn't going to be warmly accepted by many.

Think of it like this: You have purchased a nice cake, but then you think about all the nice consumables you have purchased and later consumed over your lifetime, some of which had some vanilla cream on top. So why not put some cream on top of this one aswell.

People tend to get upset, after many years with the series, they get a whiff of what may be the beginning of dumbing the game down. What did you expect?

Yeah, I guess they just like their cakes without cream on top...

[iceman77 18]

Yeah, I guess they just like their cakes without cream on top...

I call it un-needed bullshit cream myself. And how does steam equate to being "the cream on the cake"? Is it because cream rhymes with steam? I don't get it. Usually, when I look at the frosting/cream container, and decide to put it on my cake, it's not violating my consumer rights... I also have the option to not use the cream on my cake, if I choose so.. I may not like steam ... I mean cream! Small children like to eat frosting/cream though. But you know kids. They always have to have their sweets and shinies :rolleyes:. Even though it's bad for the community & the game them, but they could care less, because they don't know it's the start of dumbing the game down & catering to the head shot crowd any better.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Iceman77

[Kuskov 1]

You still can, that has been confirmed, but like now when you have downtime, you can set steam to offline mode and play A3 on the road.

Has this been officially confirmed? When I bought Kane and Lynch 2 I had to go online before I could play in offline mode, if I shut down the game or my computer I needed to go online again before I could resume playing the game.