ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[jblackrupert 14]

Hahahah W0lle you're hilarious. It's obvious from all this FUD that you haven't used Steam in a long time, if ever.

]

It only took 9 freaking years from them to implement such a simple thing that people were demanding for all of those years.

Offline mode is another issue that has pissed people off for a very very long time. It simply does not work for a lot of people most of the time

and you have to be online to to enable it.

Auto-update will sometimes do it anyways regardless if you have it completely disabled.

Throw in Steam simply refusing to connect and slow ass downloads during Steam sales.

Freedom of choice is what we need, not Steam becoming the only kid on the block with an almost complete and utter monopoly on digital downloads + DVD copies that require steam.

[mr. bravo 17]

I have great respect for what all the modders and people running fansites have done for the arma community, but I must say that some of you start to sound like stubborn conservative arrogant dinosaurs that are afraid of change when it comes to the steam issue.

I believe that the main issue here is still about whether mods can be handled through Workshop or not. Steam as it is implemented to A2 today isn't very bad at all, and I'm sure most people would accept something like that in A3 over time. But Workshop is a threat against modders and their content, because it's not a very controlled environment and Steams support doesn't take it seriously. It's a major problem for other modding communities such as SkyrimNexus, and it will no doubt be for A3 as well now that they got the mainstream players attention.

Everyone should help making this crystal clear for BIS before they make a more specific statement about it.

[Hellhound 10]

goddammit, i just can't believe this. I don't do steam/origin/ubisoft bullshit, so this is no sale from me. I can't believe that they made this mandatory, really unbelievable.

[antoineflemming 14]

I believe that the main issue here is still about whether mods can be handled through Workshop or not. Steam as it is implemented to A2 today isn't very bad at all, and I'm sure most people would accept something like that in A3 over time. But Workshop is a threat against modders and their content, because it's not a very controlled environment and Steams support doesn't take it seriously. It's a major problem for other modding communities such as SkyrimNexus, and it will no doubt be for A3 as well now that they got the mainstream players attention.

Everyone should help making this crystal clear for BIS before they make a more specific statement about it.

Seems to me the bigger issue is DRM.

[chortles 263]

goddammit, i just can't believe this. I don't do steam/origin/ubisoft bullshit, so this is no sale from me. I can't believe that they made this mandatory, really unbelievable.

Unfortunately, based on what antoineflemming has been pointing out... it was going to be no sale anyway.

Let me add this though -- an important question will be whether Arma 3 is "merely" a Steamworks game or if digital download purchasing (as opposed to buying a retail disc) is exclusive to the Steam storefront...

[nes4day 2]

Hi all:

Well, I have been away from the community for quite sometime, and this managed to catch my attention.

As someone who have had a steam account for almost 7 years, I thought I'd address some of the concerns and "dislike" towards Steam. Sorry that some of these points have already been addressed

*Why should I care about delta patching?

>Well, delta patching can and will save a lot of downloading quota so it will be extremely helpful to those who can't download much. and since Steam support interrupted downloads, there's no concern for having to start over again.

*Steam auto-update annoys the sweet hamster out of me.

>Steam has both offline start and disable auto-update (under game properties) features, and if you say they don't work, well, I never had that problem, you might want to contact Steam support or get on their forum.

*Steam restricts where I install my games.

>This has already been mentioned, steam currently supports custom library directories. So those with SSD (myself included) doesn't have to worry.

*Mod/addon integration is bad.

>I play both Steam and non-Steam ArmA II Co with all DLCs, and I never had any problem with it, you launched it all the same regardless. I play alot of games that has community addon/mods in them, like GTA: IV and TES:V Skyrim, tons of downloaded content from the net, and I have no problem using extra content.

*This will be bad for the modder/addon makers.

>To me, this is non-sense, ArmA II does not support the Steam Workshop yet, so it would make no difference than a normal one, and if Arma III does, I will explain using TES:V Skyrim, you download the mod in the workshop and a mod launcher is included as part of the game (which A II already does). So only difference will be where addon makers will upload their content.

*I don't want to use the Steam Workshop.

>Again, addon makers will be able to upload their work to Armaholic still and you can just download it from there and put in the A III directory assuming the addon system stays the same. Which I know works because I quite often get mods for Skyrim from Nexusmods.

*I don't want the game to Steam exclusive.

>Well, there's not much I can say to change your mind if you dead set on that track, but like BI said in the blog, it saves them resources and time, as well as better and simplified distribution. I have had my fair share of "I don't want my game on Steam" few years back, but then I realized, it's the same if not better. Having it on my Steam account brings a peace of mind and I can use it anywhere with internet.

*I don't want to have to download it multiple times for all the different computers I own.

>You can always make a back-up disc after you've done installing on one computer and use disc installation for the rest.

*I live in a country with shitty internet, and thus steam is not good for me.

>You see, I live in Australia, and I have ADSL2+ with unlimited for 59.90 a month, sure it's more than some countries, but I don't think it's unreasonable, given you can get like 150gb for 30/40 bucks. If you don't live in Australia and are having the same problem, I got nothing for you, sorry.

*Steam over charges there game in their online store.

>As someone who lives in Australia, I know exactly what you mean, but as with most Steam games, you can purchase a Boxed copy with key or just the Serial Key in your local game store, or a trusted online source which will also work fine since Steam codes are not regioned as far as I know.

*I don't like the idea that I don't own the game, but instead renting a license from Steam.

>Good lord, legal stuff, anyhow, this is the current norm for most major online distribution systems (be Origin, App Store, UPlay or Steam), I frankly don't care how it is licensed to me, as long as I get to use it when I want, where I want and my legal right are upheld, which I think we're ok here.

*Steam is ruining the PC gaming industry.

>Oh dear sweat hamster of Nottingham, Steam in itself can be considered a society with all kinds of people, and not the so called "12 yr old cod fanfare" or the "leet speaking Counter Strike players", it has everyone, from people who plays Plant vs Zombies to Naval War: Arctic Circle, it bring all these 70 million something odd people together to enjoy an alternate reality of their choosing and I think that helps the PC industry to grow and prosper, for the more the merrier. And when it comes to piracy, I will tell you that at one stage, I usually obtain most of my games from "Questionable sources" but as I used Steam more and more, I decided, why should I get games that way if I can buy them on Steam for a price I can afford and support the devs that makes them.

*Steam is trying to own our souls.

>I'm not even going to bother with these people.

I'm not trying to sell Steam here or anything like that, I simply want people to know all the facts before saying Steam is evil and what not. I might have made a few mistakes in the above ramble, but the points remain there. So please, just have a look and then decided whether you want to burn down Valve's office or not.

I hope I covered most of the topics, and if not (and god forbid), I will see if I can provide further insight into the dark and shrouded mystery that is Steam.

And I also hope that people actually read this post before it is lost in the sea, adrift...

Sorry about the long post, and sorry there is no TL: DR version.

Regards

-nes

[mr. bravo 17]

Seems to me the bigger issue is DRM.

Haven't been a problem in Steam for a long time to my knowledge, even for games that are just as modable.

[Alex72 1]

So if you use offline mode in Steam with boxed copy and add addons the good old way - is there any reason to have Steam runnin at all except when patching etc?

Not a Steam user as you can see. :) Cheers.

EDIT: They did say (might change) that some countries will still probably get boxed DVD's. Since im in Sweden and every BIS title has been so far in the stores im counting on it for ARMA3 as well.

[bullet purveyor 85]

I believe that the main issue here is still about whether mods can be handled through Workshop or not. Steam as it is implemented to A2 today isn't very bad at all, and I'm sure most people would accept something like that in A3 over time. But Workshop is a threat against modders and their content, because it's not a very controlled environment and Steams support doesn't take it seriously. It's a major problem for other modding communities such as SkyrimNexus, and it will no doubt be for A3 as well now that they got the mainstream players attention.

Everyone should help making this crystal clear for BIS before they make a more specific statement about it.

Is it not easy to steal someones work and upload it somewhere else already without steamworks?

There must be possible for BIS to work out a deal with Valve to bring over some of the BIS-forum admins/armaholic crew or BIS employees to help monitor the steamworks uploads if content theft is a major problem and Valve does nothing about it?

[AstroMan 10]

I don't see how installing mods in arma 2 was hard. It was the first game that got me into gaming, so i had never actually installed mods until then. All i had to do was place the mods into the arma 2 directory. simple. no replacing files, setting back ups, nothing. ran it all through a launcher as well. That took me like 5 mins to google everything and then get it working. I don't see how steamworkshop can make it any easier. Are people just that lazy to actually learn something? Trying to find mods from there is a pain. I just ended up going back to Skyrim Nexus because I found it easier.

Also, using steam to 'protect' your game is complete bullocks, Skyrim is still the second most torrented game on Piratebay, and it required steams 'protection'.

[iceman77 18]

Steam exclusive. You have got to be kidding. FPDR. Why force things into a cluster **** with this garbage program? Is it that hard for people to go buy a hard copy? I mean, damn, atleast give us the option, just like now, to use steam or not. This is terrible. I've never actually had to think weather or not I was going to buy the next in the series... until now :(

Edited February 22, 2013 by Iceman77

[Zyromkiru 10]

So if you use offline mode in Steam with boxed copy and add addons the good old way - is there any reason to have Steam runnin at all except when patching etc?

Not a Steam user as you can see. :) Cheers.

Basically the first time you run steam for the game you MUST have access to the internet and then you can turn it onto offline mode. Steam is actually very convenient if you give it a try and i used to dislike it 2 years ago but now I use it constantly.

[nes4day 2]

So if you use offline mode in Steam with boxed copy and add addons the good old way - is there any reason to have Steam runnin at all except when patching etc?

Not a Steam user as you can see. :) Cheers.

EDIT: They did say (might change) that some countries will still probably get boxed DVD's. Since im in Sweden and every BIS title has been so far in the stores im counting on it for ARMA3 as well.

It differs from game to game, I'm able to run some games without even starting Steam, Company of Heroes, Street Fighter x Tekkon and GTA just to name a few, but then there are others that require Steam to be running.

I don't see how installing mods in arma 2 was hard. It was the first game that got me into gaming, so i had never actually installed mods until then. All i had to do was place the mods into the arma 2 directory. simple. no replacing files, setting back ups, nothing. ran it all through a launcher as well. That took me like 5 mins to google everything and then get it working. I don't see how steamworkshop can make it any easier. Are people just that lazy to actually learn something? Trying to find mods from there is a pain. I just ended up going back to Skyrim Nexus because I found it easier.

Also, using steam to 'protect' your game is complete bullocks, Skyrim is still the second most torrented game on Piratebay, and it required steams 'protection'.

Workshop does take a little getting used to, and a for "protection" I tend to think of it more as an incentive to buy.

[Praelium 0]

Hi all:

Well, I have been away from the community for quite sometime, and this managed to catch my attention.

As someone who have had a steam account for almost 7 years, I thought I'd address some of the concerns and "dislike" towards Steam. Sorry that some of these points have already been addressed

*Why should I care about delta patching?

*Steam auto-update annoys the sweet hamster out of me.

*Steam restricts where I install my games.

*Mod/addon integration is bad.

*This will be bad for the modder/addon makers.

*I don't want to use the Steam Workshop.

*I don't want the game to Steam exclusive.

*I don't want to have to download it multiple times for all the different computers I own.

*I live in a country with shitty internet, and thus steam is not good for me.

*Steam over charges there game in their online store.

*I don't like the idea that I don't own the game, but instead renting a license from Steam.

*Steam is ruining the PC gaming industry.

*Steam is trying to own our souls.

I'm not trying to sell Steam here or anything like that, I simply want people to know all the facts before saying Steam is evil and what not. I might have made a few mistakes in the above ramble, but the points remain there. So please, just have a look and then decided whether you want to burn down Valve's office or not.

I hope I covered most of the topics, and if not (and god forbid), I will see if I can provide further insight into the dark and shrouded mystery that is Steam.

And I also hope that people actually read this post before it is lost in the sea, adrift...

Sorry about the long post, and sorry there is no TL: DR version.

Regards

-nes

Great post, I hope this will clarify some of the questions that people have with Steam. I'll add, though, that Steamworks modding system may actually increase mod downloads, as they will be easier to find, install, and keep up to date. This should help the modding community.

[Nicholas 5]

Alright then, tell me how I can install only ArmA3 on Steam on my SSD like I have now installed A2: E:\ARMA2

But of course an easy way, nothing difficult like creating OS links or something like that.

You simply choose which hard drive you want to install to....if you want to install ArmA 3 to your SSD, Steam allows you to do so. Not that difficult...

[Alex72 1]

It differs from game to game, I'm able to run some games without even starting Steam, Company of Heroes, Street Fighter x Tekkon and GTA just to name a few, but then there are others that require Steam to be running.

Cheers. Hopefully ARMA3 lets us skip that except when authenticate and patch it. We can only hope.

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

Bring back MPLAYER.com ...oh, wait :raisebrow:

Edited February 22, 2013 by SWAT_BigBear

[zonker3210 1]

Cheers. Hopefully ARMA3 lets us skip that except when authenticate and patch it. We can only hope.

The official announcement on the BI Studio dev blog is very explicit on this...

2. Do I have to run the game through Steam?

a. Yes, it will be required to run the game through Steam. We do not believe in always-online types of DRM however, so Offline mode will be supported.

Earlier in the post it explains that while you can run offline, you'll need to run the Steam client if you want to play online...

It will be possible to run Steam in Offline mode, and still play the game (with the exception of online services obviously, including multiplayer itself).

I'm so glad they bothered to have a forum poll on this very subject...and then ignored the results. /sarcasm

[chortles 263]

I'm so glad they bothered to have a forum poll on this very subject...and then ignored the results. /sarcasm

I don't think it was ignored... I think Maruk made a conscious decision of "better to eat the forums backlash than to risk missing a 2013 release".

[Alex72 1]

@Zonker3210: Damn didnt see that.

[TSAndrey 1]

People do realize that you can still buy a DVD copy and install it? There is no need to download anything from Steam except patches...

[iceman77 18]

*Why should I care about delta patching?

I Don't. Not at all. I don't need this.

*Steam auto-update annoys the sweet hamster out of me.

Just another redundant feature to deal with

*Steam restricts where I install my games.

Just yet another redundant feature to manage.

*Mod/addon integration is bad.

Yet another road block. Things are fine the way they are

*This will be bad for the modder/addon makers.

No comment

*I don't want to use the Steam Workshop.

No.. Idon't. Period.

*I don't want the game to Steam exclusive.

Nope I sure don't. Just because a bunch cod kids use it doesn't mean I want to

*I don't want to have to download it multiple times for all the different computers I own.

>You can always make a back-up disc after you've done installing on one computer and use disc installation for the rest.

Oh wow... I can always jump through this hoop and make a disc MYSELF!! Yay!! oh wait.. I don't give 2 ***** about this...

*I live in a country with shitty internet, and thus steam is not good for me.

yet it still doesn't matter, they don't give 2 ***** about this apparently.

*Steam over charges there game in their online store.

I guess this isn't an issue... I've always gladly payed the price for a good game.

*I don't like the idea that I don't own the game, but instead renting a license from Steam.

Well, we never own any software... it's always been ours to use...

[Maxzy 12]

Because if your Internet connection isn't good enough for Steam... I don't think your Internet connection is good enough for non-Steam Arma 3 multiplayer anyway. :p

My Internet connection is good enough to play via LAN with others like me :p. So now I have a fairly reasonable question - will I be able to play it on local network without constant internet connection?

My advice: buy the retail disc of Arma 3 -- it'll be a DVD with a Steam key -- and install from that, activate online.

That is exactly what I'm going to do. But as I already explained in other topic - once I bought a DVD with steam game and I couldn't launch it because of my crappy internet. So i had to download pirated version in order to play it. I don't want to do it again =).

[chortles 263]

Steam exclusive. You have got to be kidding. FPDR. Why force things into a cluster **** with this garbage program? Is it that hard for people to go buy a hard copy? I mean, damn, atleast give us the option, just like now, to use steam or not. This is terrible. I've never actually had to think weather or not I was going to buy the next in the series... until now :(

There specifically is a hard copy option, just like a bunch of games such as the Total War: SHOGUN 2 duology (original and Fall of the Samurai).

To me the issue depends on what exactly "Steam exclusive" means:

Steamworks: Okay

Digital key can only be bought through the Steam storefront: "I'm waiting for a holiday or summer sale"

What you should be more upset about is "just what went so wrong in late 2012 that risked the game being delayed for over a full year more?" And according to the devblog, it was not (just) the Lemnos incident.

My Internet connection is good enough to play via LAN with others like me :p. So now I have a fairly reasonable question - will I be able to play it on local network without constant internet connection?

I believe that a bunch of other people already answered "yes" in other threads? In case of me mistaking their answers or mistaking your question though, I'd definitely be interested in a dev weighing in on this question though.

That is exactly what I'm going to do. But as I already explained in other topic - once I bought a DVD with steam game and I couldn't launch it because of my crappy internet. So i had to download pirated version in order to play it. I don't want to do it again =).

I don't blame you, that's a fair reason -- though I must ask, did you have the problem of "crappy internet" preventing you from activating, or preventing you from going into offline mode, or what?

It seems that activation is so quick that if that was a problem, I'd be surprised that you could stay connected to the Internet long enough to be posting here.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Chortles

[maddogx 13]

My Internet connection is good enough to play via LAN with others like me :p. So now I have a fairly reasonable question - will I be able to play it on local network without constant internet connection?

Yep, that's what offline mode is for.

EDIT: although it remains to be seen whether the game will still feature LAN MP. BIS hasn't said anything about this, AFAIK.