Interface.

[4 IN 1 0]

To be able to "accidentally" press pistol buttom you must have a really big freakin finger

or you just not a FPS player at all.

[dmarkwick 261]

I'm going to post up some rough-outs for GUI ideas. Fist up a radial. Texts & positionings are only rough.

Idea is when you tap the space bar, the radial menu appears and you use either scroll & MMB or numerical keys, as per the current implementation.

When you press & hold the space bar, you get to use your mouse to click on the radial buttons, or on the contextual commands. When you click on a button, it zooms in to it and displays the sub-radial. If there were more sub-commands, well you get the idea :)

Each radial consists of 12 buttons surrounding either the root or the contextual. 12 because we're used to clocks already and the numbers line up, and we're used to dealing with 10 commands + 10 sub-commands etc, and we need a way to backtrack, and then we could have a user button maybe. Or, in this example, a Units button.

Also, this radial GUI would be optional. Don't like it, disable it in options & revert to basic text list. :)

Edited July 19, 2011 by DMarkwick

[KEVINMGXP 20]

I'm going to post up some rough-outs for GUI ideas. Fist up a radial. Texts & positionings are only rough.

Idea is when you tap the space bar, the radial menu appears and you use either scroll & MMB or numerical keys, as per the current implementation.

When you press & hold the space bar, you get to use your mouse to click on the radial buttons, or on the contextual commands. When you click on a button, it zooms in to it and displays the sub-radial. If there were more sub-commands, well you get the idea :)

cant see photobucket on my work but anyway:

Radial things are not much my thing it would be a to harch change for ArmA and to messy in the worst scenario, sort to say to much stuff on the screen and that while you are in combat not a good id.

I would even dare to say even reducing the ammount of stuff thats on the UI right now, like the unit command icons: when they are not in use fade them away, radar fade them away or let the player choose if it needs to be on the screen yes or not. Ill rather keep the UI exactly as it is tiny improvements maybe a bit smaller and more imersive towards combat awarenes less shit on the screen les distraction when in combat and when you need to pay atention. When we would have such a radial UI on the midst of the screen and something happens while you are trying to isseu a command out hmmmm i don't see that working tbh. Al the numbers like bullet counts, speed indicators, get rid of them or implement something more like ace where it will simulate the weight of the magazine. The text can scrol in the chat text box, this magazine is heavy, this magazine is light and collor the text like full = Green - medium = Orange - Empty or alsmost epmty = red, even voice it if possible so people can choose to disable if they want to.

as for me there is still to much on the screen that is not needed and Bis can implement it even so that players have the possibility to costumise their settings, do want UI - do not want UI - do want limited UI its like cross hair do want or dont want i like to play without it in RL you wont have a cross hair nor do you have a bullet count in front of your eyes, you need to use iron sight/scopes or dots to aim and to see and know your bullet count you need to take out your magazine and check it by your selves ;-) Anyway it would be a good id if they would implement an improved UI where the player can choose what is needed dependant on the players game play.

Example:

Enable/Disable/Fade UI Radar (when on fade this will only pop when enemy contact is dedected for an ammount of time)

Enable/Disable UI Air Radar only pops up when you are a pilot in an aircraft or shopper speed indicator will be implemented.

Enable/Disable/Fade UI Unit Icons (when on fade it only pops when you select the unit you need or when the unit dedects something also for an ammount of time)

Enable/Disable/Fade UI Bullet count (when on fade it will pop only when you reload and check the bullet count)

Enable/Disable/Fade UI Chat text If this is disabled and the next thing is enebled only the bullet count weight simmulation will pop up in the chat box

Enable/Disable UI Chat text BCS (bullet count simmulation)

and so on, for me personally the looks and the feel of the UI can stay as it is. Maybe make it a black tranceparant UI like Treumods UI and keep it numaric! It would not be a good id with all the commands the player needs to isseu to do it in a radial kind of UI. This would be a bad choice if you ask me. by default the UI will be on at nevoice and for new players it would be adviced to keep it on till they are commen to the usage of the numeric use of the commands and if they have battle experiance enough to be confident to play wo an UI enabled. The only thing that will be in use by me for an UI when this would be implemented is the Chat Text BCS and UI Airial Radar and the unit icons will be on fade. Sometimes i do like an idication so i will know which unit is dedecting something because he will the only one that is highlighted, by this way i can also give this unit a direct order because he would mostlikely have a better possition to take the target out if needed.

but thats merely my pov on how i think that the UI can be improved a little more.

summary: make the UI more player centric so the user can choose the option to have an UI enabled or not, this depending on hes game play experiance and needs for combat awarnes every player has hes own preferences, i hope i say that correct.

kind regards

Edited July 19, 2011 by KBourne
gramma correction at home

[Tonci87 163]

I like DMarvicks concept. I think BIS should try a new system but keep the old one optional

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I'm not sure what the buzz is about radial menus. They aren't inherently faster than what we already have; either way you have to learn where things are/shortcuts to use them quickly. Maybe the only improvement is a quicker learning curve, but if you haven't figured out the ArmA system by now you nothing will help you do so aside from removing control/dumbing it down. And IMO they would only be much more distracting (as is very obvious from those mockups).

[KC Grimes 79]

Continuing on the idea of better team/AI management, I think having something similar to the voice commanding used in Tom Clancy's EndWar to command units would be pretty nice to have. Obviously not as complex as it is in ArmA, in EndWar you say in your mic something like "Team 2, Move To, Alpha" or "Tank, Attack, [select target]", and the unit(s) will follow through. If you didn't want to use this feature you could still do the generic keyboard "1, 4, select target with mouse" way, but having the ability to use your voice freed up your hands to manage something else.

So in ArmA, you could have the generic keyboard method, the radial, and this voice concept. With the voice thing, having assigned specific units of your group into teams by saying "Unit 1 through 3, assign, team red", you can then tell them to move to a waypoint or a point you click by saying "team red, move to, waypoint alpha/[select point]". And to enhance it, directions could be utilized to make selecting targets easier through voice, such as with a "team red, attack, machine gunner NE". That part would be iffy. Anyway, just a thought, would be cool to see this, but either way I agree that the current team management system could use an update for ease and complexion.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Screen is cluttered with consolish (or was it stylish?) menu/icons/buttons.

You have to move to a certain menu and click on it.

How immersive is such a "TV remote" menu in a military sim?

Imho its better to improve current system so the player can customize it eg adding/moving commands/priority.

[dmarkwick 261]

if you haven't figured out the ArmA system by now you nothing will help you do so aside from removing control/dumbing it down.

There you have it: you need to "figure the system out". And you've made an unnecessarily assumptive remark about needing to "dumb it down" (another often heard reason not to change a thing). All the new presentation does is to give you a rapid optional mouse-based visual solution to the existing system.

And IMO they would only be much more distracting (as is very obvious from those mockups).

This I really cannot accept - any control that appears because you invoked it, is there for you to take notice of and use it. How can it be "distracting"? And how is it any more distracting than the current method, where you need to hunt & peck for commands you've not necessarily memorised? Can you, off the top of your head, rattle off ALL the commands by numeric invokation? I certainly cannot, and I will make the assertation that most players also cannot.

But in any case the examples are only to illustrate the basic concept - that it is in fact the SAME system but with a mouse-based interface. No change to the system is necessary, only an augmentation. It's part of the general concept of improving the game interface, which is one of the overwhelmingly complained-about features of ArmA. We're used to it & love it, but that doesn't mean it cannot be improved.

---------- Post added at 11:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 PM ----------

Screen is cluttered with consolish (or was it stylish?) menu/icons/buttons.

You have to move to a certain menu and click on it.

How immersive is such a "TV remote" menu in a military sim?

About as immersive as the current hunt & peck system?

Imho its better to improve current system so the player can customize it eg adding/moving commands/priority.

Opening up the GUI is my favoured method. So that modders can get to work and create some great interfaces. My basic illustrations are only illustrations of the same system but done for mouse, I haven't tried making totally custom layouts because of the howls of contempt it will surely bring :)

Better, for me, to introduce the concept as augmanting the current system. I know what these boards are like ;) :D

[Daniel 0]

I'm going to post up some rough-outs for GUI ideas. Fist up a radial. Texts & positionings are only rough.

Idea is when you tap the space bar, the radial menu appears and you use either scroll & MMB or numerical keys, as per the current implementation.

When you press & hold the space bar, you get to use your mouse to click on the radial buttons, or on the contextual commands. When you click on a button, it zooms in to it and displays the sub-radial. If there were more sub-commands, well you get the idea :)

Each radial consists of 12 buttons surrounding either the root or the contextual. 12 because we're used to clocks already and the numbers line up, and we're used to dealing with 10 commands + 10 sub-commands etc, and we need a way to backtrack, and then we could have a user button maybe. Or, in this example, a Units button.

Also, this radial GUI would be optional. Don't like it, disable it in options & revert to basic text list. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v15/DMarkwick/ArmAGUI1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v15/DMarkwick/ArmAGUI2.jpg

I like it. I get the feeling it could take up a bit less screen but it's a step in the right direction.

[dmarkwick 261]

I like it. I get the feeling it could take up a bit less screen but it's a step in the right direction.

Oh yeah, it's that big so you can see it in a 800x600 screen, but you get the idea. Replace the buttons with something more appropriate/military/unobtrusive and I think it could work.

[twisted 128]

I'm going to post up some rough-outs for GUI ideas. Fist up a radial. Texts & positionings are only rough.

Idea is when you tap the space bar, the radial menu appears and you use either scroll & MMB or numerical keys, as per the current implementation.

what i like about this idea (which is only a start but a good start) is that it ccould make the process of giving orders more intuitive.

I've played BIS games since OFP and can rattle off only a few commands by key press memory alone.

These would be

1. all, fall back,

2. go in danger mode,

3. copy my stance,

4. mg aim in that direction.

5. take cover.

6. medic heal X

7. line formation

8. soldier X target Y

9. go out of danger mode into normal mode (dont remember exact wording)

10. soldier X get gear (but this is frustating as i cannot tell exactly where to go to gear)

11. Soldier X move to Y

- and the rest i use so infrequently that i never have to memorise them.

Thing is a radial menu or something similar can make interacting with the environment more immersive and intuitive.

that's what BIS IMO could aim for.

Edited July 20, 2011 by twisted

[CarlGustaffa 4]

12 in a single circle is way too much. 8 is perfect as it already matches view directions and suits motoric memory better, but 16 in two circles it also possible (I use this in a 3D app). A qualifier key to open a particular radial, with no submenu navigation needed. For those using it, it can almost fully (2 target and 6 action for remote units cannot be controlled with a radial in a good fashion) substitute the number menu without replacing it. Like left ctrl + qualifying key followed by a rmb hold mouse movement.

But, sometimes a circle radial is needed, other times a diamond or rectangular or maybe even the simple vertical list we have today for quick commanding. Most of the time, many options would be hidden or deactivated.

For any type of user experiments, we need the following:

1. Direct low level access to the number commands.

2. Default keys that respond only to the assigned key, and not while holding a qualifier as well.

3. Access to ground position via mouse input, currently only available in the communication menu system, and not easy to use.

4. Underlying system that can detect mouse movement, direction in degrees and distance in screen real estate.

If I made it, I would allow user to set preference on what to show; text, graphical icon, color coding (nice for team management, right?), opacity, tooltips, number menu equivalent code, click to activate or release to activate, mouse sensitivity, slot scale, relative scale and so on. High use of line draw from selected unit(s) to where I'm pointing.

Also the number command system could easily be upgraded to use color codes, and line drawing if scrolling with mouse through available targets so you could visualize more what it is you're about to do.

Quick command I think should only be updated with more context sensitivity, better allowing quick "interact with object" (often an ammo crate).

I also have difficulty mixing squad command with high command, as the first deselects units after order, while the latter does not. Probably just a preference thing on how you want things to work.

[4 IN 1 0]

The concept is good(or through the art work is crap:p), one thing I hate the most about the current system is that I have to take my eye away from the center of the screen, which isn't really a good thing when you get tunnel vision in combat, by moving some of the command and action menu will help out a little.

[woore 10]

My Obvious, Convinuent And Does Not Require A Lot Of Effort To Implement Suggestion:

Keys:

1-primary weapon, if pressed more times - changing fire mode(Single, Semi, Auto), like in BF2

2 - secondary weapon, if pressed more times - changing fire mode

3 - sidearm

etc., 1 - 0 keys used for commanding ONLY if any squad member is selected or if you a commander of a vehicle

Ctrl - crouch/stand up

X - underbarrel weapon

F - default action, such as take weapon, get in/get out, etc.

G - grenade

H - choose grenade type

Space - jump

Other:

FULLY independent controls for infantry, land vehicles, air vehicles, naval vehicles, include mouse sevsivity

Automatic free view to drivers, like in BF2 and other games

Edited August 9, 2011 by woore

[PuFu 4600]

woore: have you played A2 yet? space-jump? really?

[woore 10]

Pff. Jump, overstep - doesn't matter

[SnR 1]

Better Admin UI

*BE Rcon to be Incorporated (pw admin)

*Ban button to actually Ban selected (pw admin)

*Named players/ user list to have all GUID on show (admin)

*Mute individual for all option (pw admin)

*Kick with timed option (5mins, 10mins, 30mins) to relieve issues of instant return when your busy.

Cleaner server logs with the ability for logs to reproduce and store them selves with time stamp, at a set readable MB ?

[neokika 62]

Good suggestions SnR, one I would add to that list would be:

- Multiple Admins support

_neo_

[gossamersolid 155]

Better Admin UI

*BE Rcon to be Incorporated (pw admin)

*Ban button to actually Ban selected (pw admin)

*Named players/ user list to have all GUID on show (admin)

*Mute individual for all option (pw admin)

*Kick with timed option (5mins, 10mins, 30mins) to relieve issues of instant return when your busy.

Cleaner server logs with the ability for logs to reproduce and store them selves with time stamp, at a set readable MB ?

Good idea, need BE intergrated directly into the game so we don't HAVE to use an rcon tool.

Your last option though is already in the game. If you want to kick with a time option, that's technically a ban with a timer really. Since we can already set times on bans (with BE), then that's not really needed.

[SnR 1]

- Multiple Admins support

Great, when your colleague is afk.

Goss i was looking more at the timed Kick feature, where as you know if your busy say flying of surviving as admin, their instant return can be a pain. If your kick button is set to a designated return time, this allows no pressure for admin to prepare for there return in lets say 90 secs +. This way it gives the offender some thinking time and amend there ways, if its a banable offense the above does not apply (if the dam ban button worked :mad:)

And of course Xeno's spectator options is win, would be good if you could incorporate all of the above whilst watching them from the single page !

Edited August 11, 2011 by SnR

[gossamersolid 155]

Great, when your colleague is afk.

Goss i was looking more at the timed Kick feature, where as you know if your busy say flying of surviving as admin, their instant return can be a pain. If your kick button is set to a designated return time, this allows no pressure for admin to prepare for there return in lets say 90 secs +. This way it gives the offender some thinking time and amend there ways, if its a banable offense the above does not apply (if the dam ban button worked :mad:)

And of course Xeno's spectator options is win, would be good if you could incorporate all of the above whilst watching them from the single page !

I was talking about BE functions, we're not really supposed to use the ingame admin as the bans are useless. PIDs can be changed easily.

When using any BE styled rcon, you can ban #username# #time# #reason#

so say I want to ban somebody for 5 minutes:

ban TKer 5 "You have been TKing"

Now that might not be the full syntax as I'm just going off of memory here.

[frederf 0]

Interface is such an important aspect of a game. ArmA has acquired so many layers of interface over time, action menu, command bar, quick command bar, 1-9 keys, context abbreviated 1-9 keys, gear screen, map screen, high command... it's too much!

The interface has gotten overgrown as well in terms of how prominent it is. More displays popping up whenever they want, growing bigger, invading the center of the screen. It's bad. The closer you can get the 2D interface to be gone the better.

[dmarkwick 261]

Interface is such an important aspect of a game. ArmA has acquired so many layers of interface over time, action menu, command bar, quick command bar, 1-9 keys, context abbreviated 1-9 keys, gear screen, map screen, high command... it's too much!

The interface has gotten overgrown as well in terms of how prominent it is. More displays popping up whenever they want, growing bigger, invading the center of the screen. It's bad. The closer you can get the 2D interface to be gone the better.

Well, a lot of what you mention is in fact the same interface, and I believe that opening a screen for some activities is appropriate, as they only open when you request them to, when you need to do something. I don't really see an alternative to interface screens for some activities, such as gear management.

The fact is some sort of visual cue is needed for almost every action, but I would draw the line at auto pop-up interface screens.

[dmarkwick 261]

I thought I would post this quote from Sakura_Chan's development thread, where he is currently discussing such a radial GUI system, albeit with a few extras...

One thing I've found from using this daily for a while: It is so much easier to use AI. Not just "oh I can issue commands faster" but it actually made more complex combat possible. Working with a basic four man squad in open terrain is, for lack of a better term, beautiful. I've played missions designed for small high command operations using only a basic squad. You're moving, changing your squad's stance, lining up shots, moving your AT soldier into that perfect spot and then drawing fire. You don't have to fiddle with the dang scroll wheel. The AI behave. They don't die from secret hidden enemies (actually standing in plain sight) because they marched off on their own. I found myself using tactics and commands that I never would before, simply because it was so simple to do so. I've been playing the ofp\arma series for a long time, and lots of my most memorable combat moments have come from using this mod.

Link. (Page where GUI discussion starts.)