Happy victory day! (9th of May)

[-martin- 10]

Hello everyone,

I would like to wish a happy Victory Day (9th of May) to everyone who's family, friends and relatives fought in World War 2, their sacrifice and braveness will be forever remembered and celebrated troughout the generations to come. :smile:

Edited May 9, 2011 by -Martin-

[mr burns 132]

Yeah, and happy unconditional surrender day to germany i guess :D

[theblessedpig 10]

I am now officially confused. I know that Russia celebrates the 9th of May as victory day. We (Slovaks) (and the rest of Europe too as I read on Wikipedia) celebrate the 8th of May. And on Wiki I read that commonwealth countries celebrate on the 7th of May.

And Army Group Center from Prague surrendered on the 11th of May.

[-martin- 10]

I am now officially confused. I know that Russia celebrates the 9th of May as victory day. We (Slovaks) (and the rest of Europe too as I read on Wikipedia) celebrate the 8th of May. And on Wiki I read that commonwealth countries celebrate on the 7th of May.

And Army Group Center from Prague surrendered on the 11th of May.

I'm Czech, but I celebrate on the 9th of May like Russians because May 8th was only the date when the Allies of WW2 accepted the Third Reich’s unconditional surrender but it was until May 9th that the remaining Third Reich forces who where occupying the Channel Islands surrendered.

The real date when WW2 actually ended in Europe was May 15 when the last battle was fought in Poljana in Yugoslavia (Slovenia) when retreating Third Reich troops were attacked.

The Victory Day marks the date of the capitulation of the Third Reich but not the date of the last battle of WW2 in Europe, it can be confusing but I hope you understand now :smile:

May 8th - Allies of WW2 accepted the Third Reich’s unconditional surrender (This is what Europe celebrates)

May 9th - Third Reich forces who where occupying the Channel Islands surrendered (from this almost all the Third Reich soldiers surrendered and began retreating) - This was the last day of the Third Reich (This day is what Russians celebrate)

May 14-15th - Retreating Third Reich troops were attacked in the final battle of ww2 in Europe.

August 17th - End of WW2

But this day is not only about celebrating victory, we must also remember and respect the fallen young men, women and kids on the Axis side because they also went through hell just like everyone else.

And Army Group Center from Prague surrendered on the 11th of May.

The Army Group Center was given the order to surrender on May 8th but they didn't obay it until on the 11th of May Soviets forced them to surrender or be killed. Again the Victory Day only marks the capitulation but not the last battle of World War 2.

Edited May 9, 2011 by -Martin-

[rangerpl 13]

This is my favorite thing about May 9th...

[Hans Ludwig 0]

Happy lets purge all our newly conquered territories of intellectuals, supporters of democracy, monarchist, religious persons, capitalist and other undesirables according to the Soviet state.

[maturin 12]

And now that we own half of Germany, let's welcome all the fascist scientists and third world dictators with open arms.

[celery 8]

I'm not sure how to feel about Victory Day, living in an Axis country that got tangled up in WW2 solely because of the Soviet Union's aggression.

A funny thing is that in Russia the history of WW2 starts with the 1941 "Great Patriotic War" and the unprovoked 1939-1940 invasion and annexation adventures are often forgotten.

[-martin- 10]

Happy lets purge all our newly conquered territories of intellectuals, supporters of democracy, monarchist, religious persons, capitalist and other undesirables according to the Soviet state.

Well I don't want to start any political argument here but I'm sure that any intelligent person can see that the democracy installed by the USA and capitalism is an evil on the scale of the Third Reich. Its like a present nicely wrapped in fancy paper but when you open it its full of lies and bullshit.

I'm not saying that the Soviet Union was the best place to live in but I can tell you that life in communism was much better for people as a whole then capitalism is.

Supporters of democracy + capitalist

1. There is no such thing as democracy and there will never will be- Yes, its true, there is no such thing as democracy and there will never be because a system in which every everything has to be voted for wouldn't allow a society to function and would cause conflict due to the nature of human beings, therefore we have governments which make the decisions for us as a whole. The closest that we are to democracy is that we can vote from a number of political parties which ultimately have the same goal which is to pursue the their own goals and goals of their allies and to make themselves rich while pouring out propaganda about "capitalism" being the best system and every other system being "evil" while stripping poorer developing nations of all their natural resources for a cheap price which the nations cannot refuse as they desperately need money to keep their economies going and making sure that the poor nations always stay poor so that their resources can continue to be exploited for a small price.

If there is true democracy how come- I live in the United Kingdom, recently the new coalition government has lifted the tuition fees cap on universities up to £9000 even though there were large protest from colleges and students, if we live in a true democracy why did the UKs government not see these protests as a vote from the public that it doesn’t not want the fee cap to be lifted to £9000 but instead sent police on to the streets to break up the protests while the government continued to pursue its own goal?

Sound familiar? Sounds the same as something the Soviets would do...

Libya Recently the UK has begun playing a major role in operations in Libya which cost an estimated £4 000 000 every day without holding a vote for the general public to decide if they want their country to be involved in this matter or not. On the other hand the UKs government had to raise the cap on university fees as it does not have enough money to fund them anymore yet they have £4 000 000 to spend on military operations in Libya every day. Why? Because of oil, once again the government is perusing its own goals.

Sound familiar? Sounds exactly like something the Soviet Union would do to me.

Religious persons

You mean this?

On the right, a religious person wrapped in gold preaching about the lord. One the left, kids in Africa that don't even have food, why doesn't the religious person use his gold to buy them food?

This picture pretty much summed up capitalism, I think that no further comments are needed.

Charities

In the UK I pay 20% VAT, yet when I go to my local train station I see volunteers from charities asking me to donate money for homeless people, for blind children and so on... I wonder why I'm paying 20% VAT if my government isn't even able to provide people with basic needs such as a flat but relies on the good will of the public to donate money for this cause.

In communism everyone had a job, a place to live in and food, and healthcare was free.

If I were you I would remember these wise words "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? First take out the plank from your own eye so that you may see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers eye."

Anyway back on topic.

Edited May 9, 2011 by -Martin-

[Hans Ludwig 0]

Democracy =/= constitutional republic.

If you understood what a true democracy is, I highly doubt you would want to live in one. Why? Because a democracy is mob rule, so what system is in place to protect the minority?

In communism everyone had a job, a place to live in and food, and healthcare was free.

Were they jobs that people really wanted to work in? Was the pay what they would have liked? If everyone is working for a bureaucracy, nothing was being produced. So even if you had money to spend, what could you buy with it?

Did you know that you had to get permission to move to a different town in Russia? The reason being that just one unwelcome person caused the small local command economy to almost grind to a halt.

amx-JHhtsHw

Edited May 10, 2011 by Hans Ludwig

[VanhA-ICON 11]

We don't celebrate it... but anyways, I'm glad it's over.

Besides if it wouldn't have continued with the cold war, we'd be lacking flashpoint?

:rolleyes:

[Spokesperson 0]

A bit late but: Happy victory/liberation day!

I agree with Martin and he is right factually speaking too.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2004/12/29/Most-Russians-miss-Soviet-Union/UPI-58781104354064/

[birtuma 28]

In communism everyone had a job, a place to live in and food, and healthcare was free.

There were no communism but socialism.

[-martin- 10]

There were no communism but socialism.

Exactly, communism can only happen if there is socialism all over the world.

Were they jobs that people really wanted to work in? Was the pay what they would have liked? If everyone is working for a bureaucracy, nothing was being produced. So even if you had money to spend, what could you buy with it?

The socialism created in the Eastern block was crap in a lot of ways because it was half fascism, closed borders, secret police up your ass if you said anything etc... It did not represent the true idea. But just because socialism failed in the Eastern bloc (mostly because of America and their Allies) doesn’t mean that its over for good. Mankind will evolve in to socialism at one point anyway.

Working in socialist Czechoslovakia

BUT working in Czechoslovakia in socialist times is something that you need to experience yourself to believe. I'm not saying that everyone was happy with their job, but 99% of people were satisfied.

Let me explain:

Plenty of work for everyone - Ever needed a job and just couldn't find one until you found a crappy job that you left anyway because your boss was an idiot? Sounds like the kind of situation most people get in to in London on a daily basis. In socialist times "looking for a job" was something unheard of, you just left your current job and after 2 days you were working in a new job.

No boss up your ass - Because every company was state owned plenty of products where produced and managers did not have to worry about profits hence nobody got shouted at by their boss plus the job that 3 people did in socialist times is being done by 1 overloaded person in capitalist times.

Was the pay what they would have liked?

Let me put it this way. An average person made around the 2000CSK mark, since everyone had an apartment from the state nobody had to pay high rent, on an average living in an apartment cost you 200 - 400CSK at Maximum. Food and other consumable products where so cheap that there is no point in counting them, a bottle of Pilsner beer used to cost 2CSK for example.

Today in capitalism

A single man makes around 10 000 CZK at most doing the same job as in socialist times. He doesn’t own an apartment because it was privatised after the revolution so he has to pay rent which costs around 9 000CZK per month in my city.

So the man has 1000CZK (just $58) left over which is enough to buy you basic food for 1 week, (I mean, 1000CZK is what I paid for ArmA 2). So in essence a couple (man + woman) struggle if they both put their salaries together and have to make off with buying the cheapest things and saving money were they can.

And then the government wonders why nobody wants to have kids in Czech Republic these days... Maybe because most young people don't have enough money to buy them dippers if their parents didn't save up money in socialism.

If everyone is working for a bureaucracy, nothing was being produced

Wrong, in socialist times Czechoslovakia didn’t import as much as it does today because almost everything that we needed was manufactured at home, from food to everyday items, just look at the public transport of other Eastern European cities, most of their vehicles were manufactured in Czechoslovakia. Today if you go to the supermarket you will see that we have to import apples from Holland, eggs from Moldova and Potatoes from Belgium. :(

Conclusion

Socialism in Eastern Europe was crap in some ways but in provigin jobs, food and a place to live in, it was much better then what people live in now.

I'm not trying to force the idea of Socialism on to anyone here or trying to say that its the best, I just want to open your eyes a little so you can be better informed about how it was, so you wouldn't believe everything that capitalists tell you and so that in the future we can make educated decisions based on what we have learned to create a better life for ourselves and out kids.

Edited May 10, 2011 by -Martin-

[Zipper5 74]

I believe the purpose of this thread was to celebrate Victory Day, not to debate the pros and cons of Communism.

Besides, Victory Day was yesterday.