Dedicated server, low bandwidth / LAN - help with rates. Warping AI!

[Posta 10]

Hi there!

I n t r o

I've set up a simple server and having trouble with warping AI in Warfare. My own AI moves fine but not the AI defending the towns. They stutter pretty much. I've tried default settings, recommended from BIS wiki, KH tutorial and some other found on this forum. Yeah, pretty much everything. :(

S e r v e r

Intel Core2Duo E8400.

4GB DDR2 RAM.

ATi HD 4870 (overkill?)

160GB 7200 HDD

W7 32-bit.

8 Mbps / 0.8 Mbps

C l i e n t

See my sig. :)

Rates

MaxMsgSend= 128; (256, 512)

MaxSizeGuaranteed= 512;

MaxSizeNonguaranteed= 256; (64, 128)

MinBandwidth= 131072; (And 0.6Mbps MIN in bits)

MaxBandwidth= 10000000000; (And 0.8Mpbs MAX in bits)

MinErrorToSend= 0.01; (0.001 doesn't help.)

MaxCustomFileSize= 0;

P r o b l e m

The enemy AI / AI of AI stutter. It doesn't matter If I connect over the LAN or via remote IP. The server is running @ 50FPS. And client 80-200 FPS. This even happens if I host on my "gaming rig" (dedicated).

I w a n t

Being able to host a low slot Warfare server. 2-4 people including myself.

Q u e s t i o n s

1. Rates? :)

2. How many players can my rather bad Internet Connection handle?

N o t e

Feel free to ask if I forgot something. But don't just give me links 'cause I've probalby read it already. :)

[visceralsyn 10]

If you want it to work reliably, Change your MaxBandwidth from 10Gbps to your actual upload speed, and your MinBandwidth from 128Kbps to 92% of your actual upload speed.

MinErrorToSend=0.001; is the lowest it gets and it does make a difference. If you set your bandwidth correctly.

to derive a useful MaxMsgsend, divide the MaxBandwidth by the MaxSizeGuaranteed, that value will be the maximum packets that can be sent using your actual upload speed and the max size of guaranteed packets. 192 ~ 320 usually works better for CTI styled missions. DM work fine on 128.

512Kbps upload is more than enuff for 2~4 clients.

Visceral_Syn

[Posta 10]

If you want it to work reliably, Change your MaxBandwidth from 10Gbps to your actual upload speed, and your MinBandwidth from 128Kbps to 92% of your actual upload speed.

MinErrorToSend=0.001; is the lowest it gets and it does make a difference. If you set your bandwidth correctly.

to derive a useful MaxMsgsend, divide the MaxBandwidth by the MaxSizeGuaranteed, that value will be the maximum packets that can be sent using your actual upload speed and the max size of guaranteed packets. 192 ~ 320 usually works better for CTI styled missions. DM work fine on 128.

512Kbps upload is more than enuff for 2~4 clients.

Visceral_Syn

Thanks! Will try that.

MaxMsgSend= 3125;

MaxSizeGuaranteed= 256;

MaxSizeNonguaranteed= 256;

MinBandwidth= 736000;

MaxBandwidth= 800000;

MinErrorToSend= 0.001;

MaxCustomFileSize= 0;

Looking good?

[visceralsyn 10]

I would suggest:

MaxMsgSend=192;

MaxSizeGuaranteed=512;

MaxSizeNonguaranteed=128;

Which should use 768Kbps, that gives you a little headroom. ( 192*512byte packets = 768,000bps )

For me, lowering MaxSizeNonguaranteed help the most in warping AI. Sadly, it doesn't fully, ever go away, I've had it as low as 32.

...Syn...

tool I use for calculating MaxMsgSend Tool

Edited April 5, 2011 by VisceralSyn
added hyperlink

[Posta 10]

Sadly, it doesn't fully, ever go away, I've had it as low as 32.

A real shame!

I will try this instead then;

MaxMsgSend= 192;

MaxSizeGuaranteed= 512;

MaxSizeNonguaranteed= 128;

MinBandwidth= 736000;

MaxBandwidth= 800000;

MinErrorToSend= 0.001;

MaxCustomFileSize= 0;

[Lonestar 11]

MinBandwidth and MaxBandwidth have nothing to do with your actual bandwidth.

It's the bandwidth allocated to every player, you must then multiply it by the maximum number of players.

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_Tweaking_Tips

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/basic.cfg

Do you host a game or a local DS? You must know that hosting a local DS on your computer will kill your FPS in game.

1MB is not enough to host a local DS.

[visceralsyn 10]

MinBandwidth and MaxBandwidth have nothing to do with your actual bandwidth.

It's the bandwidth allocated to every player, you must then multiply it by the maximum number of players.

You might want to re-read the readme BIS released with the Dedicated server, loooong ago. MaxBandwidth is total bandwidth, not per client.

Do you host a game or a local DS? You must know that hosting a local DS on your computer will kill your FPS in game.

1MB is not enough to host a local DS.

If you read his first post, he has a spare machine doing server duties. And, yes 1Mbps is more than enuff for the 2~4 clients he says he has.

...Syn...

[c0nse-0n3r 19]

MinErrorToSend made the only noticable difference for me

The warping AI is a long disputed issue (regardless of rigs):

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/1915

so its probably not your gaming rig and connection causing the problem

BIS is very good to its players/community so they'll likely have a fix for it soon enough

[whisper 0]

Looking at his config, he is hosting on ADSL

Counting on a permanent minimum 92% of ADSL upload speed is a bit on the optimistic side of things, to say the least :)

AFAIK if the server doesn't get his minimal bandwidth served, very bad things happen

[Lonestar 11]

MaxBandwidth is total bandwidth BUT calculated on a per player basis.

In ArmA the "per player basis" most often used was 256Kb for the MinBandwidth calculation. With ArmA 2, 512kb seems more appropriate according to testing done by various gaming groups. The same number is used to calculate MaxBandwidth. It is the amount of bandwidth used by a player during a session, it will spike up on certain events such as players joining or when downloading content.

MinBandwidth and Maxbandwidth must be calculated based on this number.

MinBandwidth

512 kbps x Average Number of Players (you normally have playing regularly)

512 kbps x 20 Players = 1024000 bps

MaxBandwidth

512 kbps x Maximum Number of Players (you have if you hold an event for example)

512 kbps x 40 Players = 2048000 bps

Server parameters explained by a BI dev:

• MaxMsgSend = increase as much as You can but then i hope You sitting on OC48 optical node with uber dedicated server network card (has own memory, huge cache, processing unit), could also overflood clients
  
• MaxSizeGuaranteed = aim for lower value because you want the packets to be transmitted immediately (too low could become problem)
  
• MaxSizeNonguaranteed = aim for lower value because you want the packets to be transmitted immediately (again too low could become problem)
  
• MinBandwidth = defines how server automatic system estimates bandwidth (value is total bw not per user)
  
• MaxBandwidth = defines the maximum which server never reach (ceiling for the automatic system, again total bw)
  
• MinErrorToSend = improves detail movement updates, increases bandwidth, increases cpu load, not anymore cure for medium to distant object movement like it was in ARMA 1
  
• MaxCustomFileSize = if user has custom face/sound file bigger than this value he will be kicked
  

BI's official documentation is by no means exhaustive. The Biki hasn't changed since OFP and they only copied and pasted information into a new page.

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Operation_Flashpoint:Dedicated_Server

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/basic.cfg

Some information is outdated and overall the documentation regarding servers is very poor.

We've been working with several team leaders to understand these parameters.

BTW Posta, a dedicated server doesn't need a graphics card. But since the spare computer is on the same LAN, it doesn't really apply.

I doubt it will work with 1MB, moreover your DS doesn't even have its own line. This is not optimal.

IMO you're better off hosting a game from your computer (not local DS) and invite your friends.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Lonestar

[Posta 10]

So we have to different configs then. I will try both.

[rexehuk 16]

For you guys in thread...

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1885886&postcount=1

Try my settings, we've had very good results but you will need a 1:1 100Mbit line. If you have different config.. please share using the template.

[Posta 10]

In ArmA the "per player basis" most often used was 256Kb for the MinBandwidth calculation. With ArmA 2, 512kb seems more appropriate according to testing done by various gaming groups. The same number is used to calculate MaxBandwidth.

MinBandwidth and Maxbandwidth must be calculated based on this number.

I will try that out.

---------- Post added at 07:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:08 AM ----------

Some information is outdated and overall the documentation regarding servers is very poor.

We've been working with several team leaders to understand these parameters.

BTW Posta, a dedicated server doesn't need a graphics card. But since the spare computer is on the same LAN, it doesn't really apply.

I doubt it will work with 1MB, moreover your "so-called" DS doesn't even have its own line. This is not optimal.

IMO you're better off hosting a game from your computer (not local DS) and invite your friends.

Well that's the problem. No one really knows for sure and BIS people are dead silent.

About my upload speed. I can still connect to the server via LAN, right? To spare bandwidth.

---------- Post added at 07:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 AM ----------

For you guys in thread...

Try my settings, we've had very good results but you will need a 1:1 100Mbit line. If you have different config.. please share using the template.

I don't have 100/100 sadly. :/

But I can try the rates anyway, LAN.

[wolffy.au 9]

If you guys are wondering why you can't just sent bandwidth settings to maximum to ensure its fully utilised, the problem causes is your server CPU gets hammered really hard.

512kb per user assists in ensuring that you only allocate as much bandwidth and CPU usage as required, without going completely overkill and killing the server.

[Posta 10]

UPDATE:

I have tried all of your different theories regarding rates. To be frank, no real difference compared to the default settings. AI of the AI in Warfare still stutter/warp. No difference there. FPS @ 50. LAN that is! I can only connect over LAN. Actually good I guess.

A random Warfare server have less or no AI stutter. Why can't I do it in my little LAN of two computers!? :(

Will try later with more people online.

[Lonestar 11]

You chose a very CPU intensive mission.

Let's first try with a regular small size coop.

I would also like to know what happens if you host a game (Multiplayer -> New) instead of launching a DS.

You get the server FPS using the #monitor command? Is there any desync (red/yellow chain)?

[rexehuk 16]

I don't have 100/100 sadly. :/

But I can try the rates anyway, LAN.

Lol, all LAN is 100 or 1000Mbit/s dude, unless you have a MEGA old pc with 10Mbps which I very much doubt. If you're getting lag with my config with a couple of people then I find that pretty hilarious, as suggested try a "DECENT" mission, not some movie spectacular garbage. That config has been tested up to 60 players with no visible lag on AI/players.

It's not the config, its 99.9% the mission you play. Poor mission with 0% optimisation = AI lag, use some proper missions made by people who know what they're doing and you'll see that.

[Posta 10]

Lol, all LAN is 100 or 1000Mbit/s dude, unless you have a MEGA old pc with 10Mbps which I very much doubt. If you're getting lag with my config with a couple of people then I find that pretty hilarious, as suggested try a "DECENT" mission, not some movie spectacular garbage. That config has been tested up to 60 players with no visible lag on AI/players.

Well I need a config that's good outside LAN. So your thingy is only good for testing. Missions I play are mostly Benny's Warfare, Gossamer's and Insurgency. I have only problem with AI far away.

---------- Post added at 08:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:16 PM ----------

You chose a very CPU intensive mission.

Let's first try with a regular small size coop.

I would also like to know what happens if you host a game (Multiplayer -> New) instead of launching a DS.

You get the server FPS using the #monitor command? Is there any desync (red/yellow chain)?

It doesn't happen if I host in game. Logically.

I have only a problem with AI warping when they are far away. Everything else is working fine!

---------- Post added at 08:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 PM ----------

I have to wait for an update to hopefully get the problem fixed. There will always be some AI stutter when far away.

---------- Post added at 08:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 PM ----------

It's not the config, its 99.9% the mission you play. Poor mission with 0% optimisation = AI lag, use some proper missions made by people who know what they're doing and you'll see that.

Actually it's the network code, confirmed by a BIS guy.

---------- Post added at 08:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 PM ----------

Thanks people for the input! I don't need help with rates anymore.

BUT, I have a new question:

My IC today is 9Mbps / 0.8Mbps ADSL

I can switch to:

10Mbps / 2Mbps CABLE - You know cable through tv/cable-net.

How's CABLE compared to ADSL? I had cable like 10+ years ago. 0.1Mbps / 0.01 Mbps. :) Right after 56k modems were trashed.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Posta

[jaynus 10]

Most likely your not running into bandwidth or server settings issues at this point then - probably script lag / performance issues.

[Posta 10]

Most likely your not running into bandwidth or server settings issues at this point then - probably script lag / performance issues.

Netcode issues. Verified and being worked on. Hoping for 1.6. :)

Or do you talk about my (maybe) switching to cable?

[whisper 0]

Cable vs ADSL is completely provider dependant. Good provider, good connexion.

10Mbps / 2Mbps CABLE is low by today's cable standards, though

[Posta 10]

10Mbps / 2Mbps CABLE is low by today's cable standards, though

Yeah but my 0.9/0.8 ADSL isn't that great either. :)

I can move 100 meters and get 200/100. I can't understand why my supervisor/landlord hates fiber. A real shame.

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

Have you tried not using the basic/arma2.cfg?

[hellfire257 3]

<snip>

I don't think you're understanding what Rexehuk and Jaynus are saying. It is the SERVER FPS as well as the config/netcode that causes warping. That has been confirmed by every member in the damn community since OFP. Warfare is a intensive mission and murders server FPS. It is only normal to see warping on such missions.

So what can you do to avoid it?

Don't play warfare.

(or upgrade your server hardware for a marginal increase).

Edited April 8, 2011 by Hellfire257

[birtuma 28]

Waking up the sleeping topic...

What about players with high pings? Do they also cause the ai warping?