Confusion regarding the "Reinforcements" DVD rom

[Dwarden 1125]

It seems like the way the these standalone versions of ARMA 2 are being released causes the online community to become fragmented in the games and servers they can play on.

There should probably be some option for original ARMA2 owners to keep adding on to the original ARMA 2 with lower cost addons, rather than offering only these higher priced standalone expansion versions that could end up costing original ARMA 2 owners over $100 to keep current with.

The price for existing customers to upgrade should not be the same as the price for new customers buying fully playable standalone versions.

So how should BIS package ARMA 2 and subsequent expansions so that:

1. The entire ARMA 2 community can play together online

AND

2. The original owners of ARMA 2 are not bearing the highest cost of all players.

fail, did you noticed it's OA and completely compatible with any other OA (not A2:CO - for that You need A2 content) ?

technically for default content the only fragmentation atm. is

A2, OA (+DLCs by default), A2: CO (+DLCs by default)

as A2 owner You can buy RFT to turn it into A2:CO (+DLCs in Full variant and w/o the OA Campaig/Missions)

as A2 owner You can buy OA and turn it into A2:CO (+DLCs in Lite variant and with the OA Campaign/Missions)

Edited March 25, 2011 by Dwarden

[NoQuarter 0]

^

Herding cats in your resumé yet?

[Dwarden 1125]

^

Herding cats in your resumé yet?

{looks dumb} i fail to understood really .. :confused:

[twisted1in7 10]

fail, did you noticed it's OA and completely compatible with any other OA (not A2:CO - for that You need A2 content) ?

technically for default content the only fragmentation atm. is

A2, OA (+DLCs by default), A2: CO (+DLCs by default)

as A2 owner You can buy RFT to turn it into A2:CO (+DLCs in Full variant and w/o the OA Campaig/Missions)

as A2 owner You can buy OA and turn it into A2:CO (+DLCs in Lite variant and with the OA Campaign/Missions)

Hi Dwarden!

Thank you for breaking this down and explaining.

I just want to say right off the top that you guys have created the best game/military sim EVER and I have been a huge fan since the original Operation Flashpoint. Many thanks to the development team for the amazing job they have done in creating this game and supporting this series for so many years.

With respect to the original fragmentation question, I think the easiest way to say it is that a split was formed by creating a separate OA standalone expansion disconnecting these users from the original A2 mutliplayer community. I think an A2:CO only option for new users and a non standalone OA expansion for original A2 users would have held the community together better.

Edited March 27, 2011 by twisted1in7
Rethinking the financials comments and realizing that it is not really approriate - removing them now

[jblackrupert 14]

{looks dumb} i fail to understood really .. :confused:

It means trying to do a next to impossible task.

Like trying to get a cat to walk on a leash like a dog.

[jsmuk 13]

I am slightly confused by one aspect of this, and I think its been cleared up already but I am still confused.

If I was to purchase this and install it on top of my already existing ArmA2 and OA install would it install the DLC as if I had downloaded it?

Iv been looking at the DLC for a while and this seems to be an ideal way to get it.

[eggbeast 3673]

i was very disappointed when OA came out as a standalone game.

I can see why this could happen in terms of licensing, sales impact, etc and see why BIS would do it.

However I think it's a bit of an amateur distribution strategy that has genuinely impacted on the multiplayer experience in my opinion - we have a lot of gamers who won't get this game because

a) they don't understand what games to buy

b) the patching logic is hard to follow

c) the mod content creates a "hard to connect" online MP experience

d) the steam version is really hard to handle alongside other DLC/ DVD versions

e) different versions are available in different countries

f) there are too many keys/controls to master (and you need a special keyboard)

g) the graphics card/ CPU/ RAM setup is really hard to get right - sometimes a great rig performs awfully on arma, whereas a not so great rig with jus tthe right graphics card is just fine...

h) the AI's we recruit in a mission talk rreeeealllllyyyyy slloooowwwwllllyyyyy liiiikkkkke a deeeeeeeemmmmmoooooooonnnnnnnn taaalkkinnnnnggggg arrrrraaaaammmaaaaaiiiccc.... because we have the low res DLC in game - it RUINS the experience totally (pushing us to buy the content etc - and is just an awful strategy - alienating newcomers who come and look over your shoulder when you're playing, and think "well that sucks") - itappears that anyonewho has the actual bought DLC also gets this when somone without the bought DLC joins the server - i mean that is truly terrible!

if BIS concentrated on harmonising the playing community, making the online experience better, then when they brought out Arma 3 they'd have a growing not dwindling fanbase.

I, for one am a total arma addict and a passionate advocate of the game series. It's just a shame that the distribution strategy compounds the problems with the online experience (which let's face it, keep thegamealive long after the SP campaign is over)

I have 2 gamers in my clan who have recently turned up to play (we play CO) - one has arma 2 DVD and the other has steam OA and they're both peed offthat they can't join our server after spending £20 each...

you can imagine that NONE of us will be buying the reinforcement pack.

Edited March 26, 2011 by eggbeast

[MissionCreep 12]

There seems to be no need to cater for A2R in a specific way.

It is said to contain the same units, vehicles, weapons and terrains as OA.

Seriously? I thought it only contained BAF and PMC content. What about USMC, Takistanis, Insurgents etc? By inference it seems USMC units would NOT be included. If it did contain the same units, vehicles, weapons and terrains as OA, then it would essentially be OA+BAF+PMC minus OA missions, making it a great bargain since the official mission content for OA seems pretty restricted anyway.

[Joe98 91]

If I was to purchase this and install it on top of my already existing ArmA2 and OA install would it install the DLC as if I had downloaded it?

I think the answer is "Yes"!

-

[PuFu 4600]

It is interesting to see how your first A2 purchase impacts your total cost of ownership.

Now If we could just get a non-standalone OA DLC for A2 owners and a non-standalone A2 DLC for A2:OA owners, then the playing field would be leveled on pricing.

I can't really believe that someone actually brought up the financials in the question.

Ok, let me break it down this way: an average game (insert name if you please) costs about 40-50EUs a piece (that is 50-60$). The average play time from a game is about 10 hours for FPS/action game and most like in the range of 30-40 for a RPG/RTS .(not talking about MP focused games such as COD, BF etc). Now, what is the lifespan of a game BIS produces? I would say a lot longer...The price for each installment is less though than the average game out there though.

I do understand your POV regarding long time players that already own one or the other, and the cost is higher than for a new player, who can pick CO and BAF, and be done with. Still, that happens with anything else in the world, where buying slices of an object might be in fact more expensive than buying the object in itself (IE: for computers this does apply to a certain degree).

However I think it's a bit of an amateur distribution strategy that has genuinely impacted on the multiplayer experience in my opinion - we have a lot of gamers who won't get this game because

a) they don't understand what games to buy

b) the patching logic is hard to follow

c) the mod content creates a "hard to connect" online MP experience

d) the steam version is really hard to handle alongside other DLC/ DVD versions

e) different versions are available in different countries

f) there are too many keys/controls to master (and you need a special keyboard)

g) the graphics card/ CPU/ RAM setup is really hard to get right - sometimes a great rig performs awfully on arma, whereas a not so great rig with jus tthe right graphics card is just fine...

h) the AI's we recruit in a mission talk rreeeealllllyyyyy slloooowwwwllllyyyyy liiiikkkkke a deeeeeeeemmmmmoooooooonnnnnnnn taaalkkinnnnnggggg arrrrraaaaammmaaaaaiiiccc.... because we have the low res DLC in game - it RUINS the experience totally (pushing us to buy the content etc - and is just an awful strategy - alienating newcomers who come and look over your shoulder when you're playing, and think "well that sucks") - itappears that anyonewho has the actual bought DLC also gets this when somone without the bought DLC joins the server - i mean that is truly terrible!

a) i sort of agree, but i for one prefer being able to use my previous game content with the new one, rather than seeing BIS adopt the average developer market strategy: release a new game each year, where the new game is most likely the same as previous, with a slightly different content and story, but all in all pretty much the same.

b) i certainly disagree - the latest patch gets the game from point A to point B(latest), no matter the version at point A. Can't be easier. For steam users for instance steam does all the job for you.

c) so now it is the SDK fault and the ones using it to bring more free content and features? people are to lazy to setup their servers correctly, and use any of the existing community syncing solutions (untill BIS comes up which its own, which afaik will happen not that far off)? Really?

d) yep i agree that there should be a lot more done in order to get steam and retailt to "hug" better, but why would you want to get one retail and the other steam when there is also the sprocket DL version that works just like a retail version?

e) i am not aware of such thing. Care to give the source of that affirmation?

f) i prefer having more keys than less. And you don't need a special keyboard, i've been playing since OFP, and never had any sort of special/gaming keyboard, but used the default 104 US key layout without any sort of issues! Guess people are getting used to the console ports that other developers are releasing, where you are lucky to be able to customize your keys in any sort of way. Should be the other way around.

g) yes, that is something BIS is working on, but i certainly agree that there are issues that needs a lot of time to optimize and get it right from a player perspective.

h) i prefer the lite version of the DLC over not being able to play together at all due to missing content. I actually think it was a smart move from BIS perspective.

Edited March 27, 2011 by PuFu

[twisted1in7 10]

I can't really believe that someone actually brought up the financials in the question.

Ok, let me break it down this way: an average game (insert name if you please) costs about 40-50EUs a piece (that is 50-60$). The average play time from a game is about 10 hours for FPS/action game and most like in the range of 30-40 for a RPG/RTS .(not talking about MP focused games such as COD, BF etc). Now, what is the lifespan of a game BIS produces? I would say a lot longer...The price for each installment is less though than the average game out there though.

I do understand your POV regarding long time players that already own one or the other, and the cost is higher than for a new player, who can pick CO and BAF, and be done with. Still, that happens with anything else in the world, where buying slices of an object might be in fact more expensive than buying the object in itself (IE: for computers this does apply to a certain degree).

a) i sort of agree, but i for one prefer being able to use my previous game content with the new one, rather than seeing BIS adopt the average developer market strategy: release a new game each year, where the new game is most likely the same as previous, with a slightly different content and story, but all in all pretty much the same.

b) i certainly disagree - the latest patch gets the game from point A to point B(latest), no matter the version at point A. Can't be easier. For steam users for instance steam does all the job for you.

c) so now it is the SDK fault and the ones using it to bring more free content and features? people are to lazy to setup their servers correctly, and use any of the existing community syncing solutions (untill BIS comes up which its own, which afaik will happen not that far off)? Really?

d) yep i agree that there should be a lot more done in order to get steam and retailt to "hug" better, but why would you want to get one retail and the other steam when there is also the sprocket DL version that works just like a retail version?

e) i am not aware of such thing. Care to give the source of that affirmation?

f) i prefer having more keys than less. And you don't need a special keyboard, i've been playing since OFP, and never had any sort of special/gaming keyboard, but used the default 104 US key layout without any sort of issues! Guess people are getting used to the console ports that other developers are releasing, where you are lucky to be able to customize your keys in any sort of way. Should be the other way around.

g) yes, that is something BIS is working on, but i certainly agree that there are issues that needs a lot of time to optimize and get it right from a player perspective.

h) i prefer the lite version of the DLC over not being able to play together at all due to missing content. I actually think it was a smart move from BIS perspective.

Good points on the financial aspects -- I have retracted my previous comments.

I'll just hold out for a little while and wait for the next A2:OA / A2:CO sale.

[ziiip 1]

Did the Guild Wars expansions include the campaigns that came before them?

I wonder how many people would have bought the GW expansions if they shipped without campaign and quests.

[concurssi 11]

I have every songle one of them , and I can tell you that Eye of the North did not come with the campaigns and quests of Prophecies, Nightfall or Factions, and vice versa.

[ziiip 1]

I meant if expansions came without their own campaigns.

Did Lord of Destruction include the Diablo II "campaign"?

Did Broodwar include the original Starcraft campaigns?

Did Shivering Isles contain the Oblivion "campaign"?

They all came with new campaigns.

Not that I care and not that I played any of the campaigns because of my crappy pc, just you know, trying to figure out the reasons.

I doubt someone who has bought Reinforcements will buy OA just to have the campaign.

[concurssi 11]

I believe BAF and PMC both come with campaigns and possibly missions.

As far as them not buying OA, that's fine.

[Zipper5 74]

Unless more have been added specifically for Reinforcements, you will at least be getting two campaigns, Operation Crimson Lance (BAF) & Operation Black Gauntlet (PMC), as well as 9 SP missions and 1 showcase from BAF, and 3 SP missions and 1 showcase from PMC. ;)

[Rough Knight 9]

I just pre-ordered my A2: Reinforcements disk today. I had already purchased PMC, is it possible to donate that to my brother if I have already installed it on my machine? It was a sprocket purchase from memory.

I would think it should be ok as a new cd-key will be implemented when I install A@:Reinforcments leaving the other free?

Seriously though: For $15Au the cheap ass should go buy it himself : P

Thanks

Frosty

Edited March 31, 2011 by Rough Knight

[Narsil 10]

I am slightly confused by one aspect of this, and I think its been cleared up already but I am still confused.

If I was to purchase this and install it on top of my already existing ArmA2 and OA install would it install the DLC as if I had downloaded it?

Iv been looking at the DLC for a while and this seems to be an ideal way to get it.

Excellent question. I also would like to know what happens with this. If the full DVD versions of A2 and OA are already installed, will the Reinforcements DVD ONLY install basically the BAF & PMC files ? Any "official" answer would be greatly appreciated by alot of us potential buyers. Thanks!

[NinetyThird 10]

Excellent question. I also would like to know what happens with this. If the full DVD versions of A2 and OA are already installed, will the Reinforcements DVD ONLY install basically the BAF & PMC files ? Any "official" answer would be greatly appreciated by alot of us potential buyers. Thanks!

join issue.

Im A2 DVD and OA DVD and A2 RFT DVD

all together is not installed. I wasted money? I need only DLC? plz reply:confused:

get

russian version ARMA 2 Combined Operations 1.59 (a2 DVD+OA DVD)

p.s if you put separately, then everything works fine. not compatible with Combined Operations?

I waited for so long a Russian version of DLC. why do so? I'm disappointed

Edited April 1, 2011 by NinetyThird

[XZARES 10]

I have exactly the same problem. I demand an explanation! (google translator is cool)

[NinetyThird 10]

:mad:some one of the officials we respond? or again to the Russian 4 months new expectations?

http://www.arma2.ru/forums/showpost.php?p=975958&postcount=30

[Dwarden 1125]

can You exactly write steps what you do?

what version installing over what version and what distribution ?

e,g, i'm not sure if you installing RFT over 1.59 or what

[NinetyThird 10]

can You exactly write steps what you do?

what version installing over what version and what distribution ?

e,g, i'm not sure if you installing RFT over 1.59 or what

tell only one ARMA 2 Combined Operations + RFT compatible? I get the supplement? Then I describe how to install :(

I have a disc version

http://ru.akella.com/Game.aspx?id=1877

http://games.1c.ru/arma2_oa/

http://games.1c.ru/arma2_rf/

RFT refused to install the version 1.57 Combined

RFT refused to install the version 1.59 Combined

problem is with the Russian distribution of 1С http://www.arma2.ru/forums/showthread.php?p=976068&posted=1#post976068

Edited April 1, 2011 by NinetyThird

[XZARES 10]

First I had my favorite Arma 2 + arma 2 OA to the 1.57 patch. Even the beta did not stand. And then, I spent nine hour his worthless life so that would download arma 2 reforsments and buy a key (and it is - 30 minutes of my life). Decided to put on my favorite Arma 2 CO. but when you install the above error appears.

what did I do wrong? (I like Google translator)

[Dwarden 1125]

ok,

i wanted to be sure you don't have installed PMC / BAF and trying over-install it ...

if You want help me track the problem, please try following:

1. have installed A2/OA/A2:CO

2. place A2: RFT into DVD

3. copy the content of the DVD onto HDD

4. keep A2: RFT in bay

5. goto your HDD copy of the install and erase all SETUP.CRC files

6. start AUTORUN.EXE

7. wait till it installs

and share results with us, thanks in advance