Libyan Air-force ordered to bomb protesters

[maturin 12]

Is Iraq any batter today after executing Saddam Hussein? No!

Is Afghnistan any bettr today after installing Karsai, No!

Great, I don't disagree. Now let's look at how those quite reasonable political sentiments get you to praising the statesmanship of a verifiable lunatic who blew up hundreds of innocent people over Scotland.

Your posts make your thought process look every bit as crude as the "Bomb the camel jockey dictator! USA! USA! USA! Bring it on!" people.

[jakerod 254]

Well, after looking how Berlusconi rules Italy and Sarkozy tries to perform like Napoleon I can't see why Ghadaffi is any more insane as his best two Ex-Boyfrieds. Theyre in a same league..let's go invade Paris and Rome or what? It realy disgusting the way how the global player today treat the sovereignty of other countries just because "yes, we can!"

Is Iraq any batter today after executing Saddam Hussein? No!

Is Afghnistan any bettr today after installing Karsai, No!

It will turn out that this whole "war for freedom" is a sell off for the richness of Libya to the London City brokers.

Al over the world, even in the US the "quality" of a national leader is measured in the economical sucess under his rule.

You want to know why we aren't going after Berlusconi and Sarkozy?

First off, Sarkozy is the leader of a country on the security council so I'm fairly sure that they would veto it. Secondly, they are western governments with important ties. Thirdly, they aren't, arguably, killing their own people in the streets. Fourthly, their countries don't have a lot of oil. Fifthly, attacking their countries doesn't make us look better in the eyes of the other North African countries who just had their revolutions. Sixthly, their country isn't in the middle of a civil war where siding with the rebels main gain us important resources or alliances in the future. I think that covers it.

As I and others have said about fifty times in this thread, the reason we aren't going after the other people who do similar things or share similar traits with Gadhafi is because we are not the white knight. We, the U.S. or the U.N., have our own interests in mind and attacking those other countries goes against our best interests.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Well Beagle, the west doesn't need to go after Gaddafi, or execute him, or exile him, or anything. We need to ensure his troops aren't massacring civilians, (which also partly includes the "rebels", as they are simply civilians who are trying to defend themselves, and who are tired of being oppressed) and that's it. We don't need to provide them with close air support, or anything like that.

We ensure they don't massacre the ragtag bunch of armed civilians, the civilians/rebels can try and attack them if they want, but at their own risk. If Gaddafi isn't forced out (and honestly he doesn't have to be) then what I think will end up happening is a state within a state, sort of like what we set up for the Kurds in northern Iraq. Gaddafi gets to keep his oil wealth, bla bla bla, as long as he lets the people who want to live without being under his tyranny, do exactly that.

*almost forgot* - When me and Celery agree on something, that's a day to remember. :D

[Beagle 684]

Great, I don't disagree. Now let's look at how those quite reasonable political sentiments get you to praising the statesmanship of a verifiable lunatic who blew up hundreds of innocent people over Scotland.

Your posts make your thought process look every bit as crude as the "Bomb the camel jockey dictator! USA! USA! USA! Bring it on!" people.

Well I know how you feel about this, but are you aware why germany does not join the military actions against Libya. Its because we consideres Libya a valuabe and stable partner. I had friends workign for years in Libya for german companies.

Not all nations in this world do follow the war cry of thr US and the UK out of reflex and there is always a reason for this.

Your enemies are not necesarry our enemies.

The whole affair also shows how differnt in style the media reports about this.

In german media you wil not find expressions like madman, lunatic or mass murder in articles or videos about Libya.

My main concern here in is that we had to learn that almost all NATO or US actions since Yugoslavia started with a big lie and a lot of propaganda war to make sure the voting sheep at home will support anything the armed forces do.

And in this case al im asking myself now is who is the liar in this case and who started this war for what reason and who is the big profiter in the end.

I think by now we should now that onyl that lunatica are worth getting bombes that sit on oilfields or giant fresh water reserves.

All the other lunatics that call themselfs Presidents, Kings or Generals are rather safe as long as their realms are poor.

The town I live in was destroyed to 82% in WW2 and my Grandma spend most of her youth in bunkers and later in ruins...in not a fan of bombing someone just out of a reflex.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Beagle

[maturin 12]

we are not the white knight.

Damn straight. But the problem is, Western intervention seems to turn the most despicable people into White Knights.

So if anyone would like to walk back from their stiffy for Mr. Lockberie while still criticizing the bombings, do it here, because you rate about as high as Glenn Beck in my eyes.

[Beagle 684]

Im really not feeling well about what happenign in the last few years and im about to belive that it may be true that this group of people is taking over the rule step by step.

Wars are not fought for any moral reasons anymore, face it.

Im currently about to reject my status a reservist of the german army.

Furtunately is will costs me just a few letters.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Beagle

[jakerod 254]

Wars are not fought for any moral reasons anymore, face it.

I don't recall a time when they ever were.

[whisper 0]

Well, after looking how Berlusconi rules Italy and Sarkozy tries to perform like Napoleon I can't see why Ghadaffi is any more insane as his best two Ex-Boyfrieds. Theyre in a same league..let's go invade Paris and Rome or what? It realy disgusting the way how the global player today treat the sovereignty of other countries just because "yes, we can!"

Wait, wait, wait.... You actually really compare Sarko and Gaddhafi?

As much as I dislike Sarko, sorry but :

* Did Sarkozy repressed the few recent riots by sending mercenaries in the street ending the whole thing in a bloodbath?

* Did Sarkozy financed terrorist activities, blowing up planes and such?

* Can I get rid of Sarkozy next year by voting? Oh, actually yes! Do I need to take arms for that? Oh, wait.... no!

And you "can't see why Ghadaffi is any more insane as his best two Ex-Boyfrieds"? You're kidding?

[1in1class 0]

I guess we will see how it pan's out. Actually not as many people as you think there Darkhorse 1-6 that would like him gone. Just most of the confuse people of the US do, as they do in most of the middle east. But we will see how it go's, its not like Egypt where the whole country would like him to step down. Thats why most of the UN forces left it alone and backed out. This is not an genocide!

[Beagle 684]

Wait, wait, wait.... You actually really compare Sarko and Gaddhafi?

As much as I dislike Sarko, sorry but :

* Did Sarkozy repressed the few recent riots by sending mercenaries in the street ending the whole thing in a bloodbath?

* Did Sarkozy financed terrorist activities, blowing up planes and such?

* Can I get rid of Sarkozy next year by voting? Oh, actually yes! Do I need to take arms for that? Oh, wait.... no!

And you "can't see why Ghadaffi is any more insane as his best two Ex-Boyfrieds"? You're kidding?

Not kidding only exegerating...but only a bit. I want to poitn out that very different gauges are taken to measure all the lunatics with soem kind of power in the world.

And the other problem is...what di we know?

The pictures and videos don't fit to the reports of "mass murder" and massive airstrikes against rebels. Its all very unclear. Does this mean that no sovereign is allowed to fend of insurgets, terrorist or rebels in future.

No wonder that the Russian Government abstainend from voting, they're doing this all day.

[whisper 0]

"only a bit" .... Get back on earth , m8. Or go to Libya if that's such a paradise compared to a country where one can get rid of twats with a sheet of paper instead of an AK.

If Russia or China really wanted this to not happen, they had a very, very simple thing to do, that they usually do not hesitate to use. They have a veto right.

Why didn't they use it this time?

[Beagle 684]

"only a bit" .... Get back on earth , m8. Or go to Libya if that's such a paradise compared to a country where one can get rid of twats with a sheet of paper instead of an AK.

If Russia or China really wanted this to not happen, they had a very, very simple thing to do, that they usually do not hesitate to use. They have a veto right.

Why didn't they use it this time?

I have a theory in that case Isn't China in need of more oil? And this tiem theire right there in time. Where did the rebels got their "new heavy weapons" from they told about on Monday.

for sure not out of thin air...but they received a large delivery of "humanitarian aid" from the chinese.

We will see that China will play a big role in this. Africa and Chinese interest is quite a interestign story. China is the biggest weapons supplier in Africa.

The dragon keeps on rising!

They have for sure already secretly choose a side..or both!

Edited March 23, 2011 by Beagle

[jakerod 254]

I have a theory in that case Isn't chin in need of more oil? And this tiem theire right there in time. Where did the rebels got their "new heavy weapons" from they told about on Monday.

for sure not out of thin air...but they received a large delivery of "humanitarian aid" from the chinese.

We will see that China will play a big role in this. Africa and Chinese interest is quite a interestign story. China is the biggest weapons supplier in Africa.

The dragon keeps on rising!

They have for sure already secretly choose a side..or both!

What about Russia?

[Beagle 684]

What about Russia?

Russia has not shown up officially on the scene so far. But what do I know! I guess in 5 year from now a different story wild be told.

[Rovka 14]

Yet another Illegal war reeking badly to Neo-Imperialism! The war is not about saving people, not about hording oil, it's about making money flow into their already fattened blood stained pockets!! Politicians are merely their pawns, steering clear for a Third World War to create profit for themselves and their evil boss!

"Chubby-Caterpillar-Always-Apetite, Gone Greedy: Money-Matters-The-Rest-To-Tatters!!"

Bankers profit to gain, Everlasting pain, War is it's name, Addiction is it's game , Religion is it's tool, People (ab)used to fool, Everlasting stupidity, Death for all those deemed unworthy... (to their evil scheming banker's cause that is!)

A.k.a: BE-WARPED

[Spokesperson 0]

Good lecture on Libya for German speakers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr0OlzmoYd0

[concurssi 11]

Yet another Illegal war reeking badly to Neo-Imperialism! The war is not about saving people' date=' not about hording oil, it's about making money flow into their already fattened blood stained pockets!! Politicians are merely their pawns, steering clear for a Third World War to create profit for themselves and their evil boss!

"Chubby-Caterpillar-Always-Apetite, Gone Greedy: Money-Matters-The-Rest-To-Tatters!!"

Bankers profit to gain, Everlasting pain, War is it's name, Addiction is it's game , Religion is it's tool, People (ab)used to fool, Everlasting stupidity, Death for all those deemed unworthy... (to their evil scheming banker's cause that is!)

A.k.a: BE-WARPED[/quote']

You have got to be joking.

[Spokesperson 0]

the whole story of a helicopter indiscriminately shooting civilians isn't true. the guardian posted a update as to what happened.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/22/libya-air-strikes-live-updates

BBC showed an interview with the wounded on the hospital.

[spooky lynx 73]

What about Russia?

Unfortunately, during last years the international policy and interests and benefits of the state aren't affiliated with each other.

[celery 8]

Well, after looking how Berlusconi rules Italy and Sarkozy tries to perform like Napoleon I can't see why Ghadaffi is any more insane as his best two Ex-Boyfrieds. Theyre in a same league..let's go invade Paris and Rome or what? It realy disgusting the way how the global player today treat the sovereignty of other countries just because "yes, we can!"

In other words, you hold a dictator's right to fuck over and massacre his people and be openly hostile to the majority of the world's countries as more sacred than his people's right to NOT be fucked over or massacred, or others' right to end it. I'm surprised that a German can think that.

[spooky lynx 73]

Well... I'm asking again, where are the proofs of those massacres? All Quaddafi did is fighting with armed rebellion. Where are the footages of those houndreds of murdered and houndreds of destructed houses?

[maddogx 13]

Well... I'm asking again, where are the proofs of those massacres? All Quaddafi did is fighting with armed rebellion. Where are the footages of those houndreds of murdered and houndreds of destructed houses?

What constitutes proof for you? There are more than enough eyewitness reports in the media, easily found through a Google search. For example:

A doctor treating the injured in Benghazi's Al Jala hospital said that at least 30 people died Saturday, most from gunshot wounds to the head. Hovering helicopters fired into the crowds and the hospital was receiving a steady stream of injured people, said the doctor, who CNN is also not identifying for security reasons.

Source: CNN article.

[gossamersolid 155]

Well... I'm asking again, where are the proofs of those massacres? All Quaddafi did is fighting with armed rebellion. Where are the footages of those houndreds of murdered and houndreds of destructed houses?

Really?

Do you not have access to google where you come from? Or how about the hundreds of news sites.

You can also watch the Al Jazeera live stream on their website.

[Spokesperson 0]

Anonymous eyewitnesses are no proof, and in many cases those who talk to western media are rebels themselves. They exaggerate and neutral eyewitnesses (europeans) deny alleged air attacks on protesters. It is also wrong to count armed civilians as civilians in the hospitals, they don't bring guns.

No western media has showed any kind of proof. Yet you believe frequent liars, and are willing to start wars for new lies.

[Beagle 684]

German news reports of 14 dead and 23 wounded today in Misurata...that's not a massacre...thats like a usual day in Iraq back in 2003.

A doctor treating the injured in Benghazi's Al Jala hospital said that at least 30 people died Saturday, most from gunshot wounds to the head. Hovering helicopters fired into the crowds and the hospital was receiving a steady stream of injured people, said the doctor, who CNN is also not identifying for security reasons.

We have seen US Helikopters do the same in Iraq...Some one remember "Collateral Murder"? Linking that video earned me 3 months of ban here. Edited March 23, 2011 by Beagle