Libyan Air-force ordered to bomb protesters

[Rovka 14]

I know Baff1.. But can you elaborate on how to be an expert on such occassion? You wish to be a surgeon operating people in hospital? Enough blood flowing there for sure. Also enough gunshots and stabbing-wounds to be seen, and even the occassinal skull to be partially seperated from it's internal brains lying under it! Very interesting to see, for sure!

If only they started instantly killing assholian people beginning at the toplevel, working downwards as they go, and examine their failing brains up close and personal for scientific purposes, handing all other organs (if healthy!) to those waiting for donors! That'll clear up some pressious time and space wasted on maintaining those failing ego-goons!!

And well perhaps where you live a few banks may have been or are nationally operated by government-subsidiary, but here in NL we got quite a few of them.. We have ABN-Amro wich is run by the state where the latter is the stockholder. And we also had ING-bank being funded with taxmoney to survive the Financial Recession Crisis of late.. And that means they are effectively state-subsidized by means of tax-money. That makes two, even if the latter bank for now, is only partially subsidized instead, of for prolonged time on the former bank mentioned here... And I do agree to the fullest that governments are subsidised by banks.. This is excactly what I tried to project in that long story I wrote backthere..

But not many seem to understand all such complex matter. Too difficult for them simple souls amongst us to keep track of, because it doesn't fit in their daily routines, nor suits them to think of, aslong as they can live their little high-lives to the max!

Why worry if bombs and guns are funded by the same banks as most of us use?? Why even care if bombs fall elsewhere?? Gives quite a nice bomb-show to base ArmA-2 mission from, yes?

Hey aslong it ain't all falling from the sky around ya at your own home right!? Selfish careless bitches! You'll scream like piglets when another iconic building in your own home country is attacked, with hordes of deaths as result! Look who's laughing then!! Yes mister terrorist themselves! Them presumed terrorists, keep on feeding royally from the collective stupidity, at keeping people dumb at home, and abroad!!

If you truly wish to combat terrorism, try some honest education at home and abroad instead.. Go about and invite Afghan villagers onto seperate parts within the military bases, and make them be able to read if they're analfabetic!

That'll make them more intelligent being able to read the rules of Quran for themselves, thus also allowing them to form their own opinion, also being less prone to become an easily fooled feeding-pool to supposed terrorists, instead merely listening to the warmongering of the hate-beard Imams, and have no abbility to voice against it! Islam on itself is not the danger, but what people abuse it for! And that story has both sides of the conflict involved in the whole matter..

They should spread teaching invidiual consiousness based responsibility instead, of showing collective inabbility through the proces of elimination of population, that merely being an invitation to further escalation!!

Right now too many people are kept dumb merely following their leaders because Imam says, or what Foolah Mullah barks, and the Generals command! In war half-truths and half-lies are spread by all sides all the times! You all know that just like I do. They call that propaganda!

Now indeed I wonder what happened to those supposedly tens of thousands of Libyan deaths that are suddenly disappeared into nothingness.. No massgraves pointed out in the media, no corpse-heaps to be seen on television whatsoever.. Hence my doubts about the justice of this latest move to war..

And all the more reason to see it escalate because this ain't excactly the first false-flag war that has been thrown in all our faces to witness! And yes this will be another excuse to go bomb our own homes by means of action-reaction-confrontation-escalation. Do you think I wanna see nukes so badly?? Perhaps this is what decadent mankind deserves, and would be just to do, if not for the whole planet including innocent non-human species being killed in such proces!! Basically it comes down to this:

There never should've been so many people, with so many types of religions to (potentially mis)lead them, and certainly No selfish profit-making stupidity being prioritized above morally just causes..

Wasn't it religion that preaches: Thy Shall Not Kill?? And what are many of them supposedly loyal religious people doing once they're outside their Synagogues, their Mosques, their Churches, and their Temples?? Yes they occassinally kill, and do not show any respect to what or who they have killed that moment before..

The biggest victims of such policy are not humans, but the hapless animals always suffering, in war (by bombs and gunfire, sometimes tortured and killed for fun!!) and in peace (local butcher, to get you a scrap of meat onto your plate! etc.), and we even dare to laugh about a human casualty as it is shown being recorded where it is in the proces of getting shot up into pieces on the streets, whilst they're trying to resist true tyranny called Democracy Policy on them soils abroad and far away in distant foreign souvereign nation states, again merely for dirty cheap profit.

All too often going right over the backs of such people suffering, wether these are armed or not... Hey look a raghead, how about shooting the piss out of that towel-face, firing a rain of led their way!? And that is supposed to be a peace-supporting mission??

May I remind you on what Nato was actually and initially was, and still mandatory is organized for?? Mutual support amongst its memberstates for when any of it's memberstates are attacked by means of invasion of a former member, or any hostile nation not belonging to the Nato-organisation. It is a defence pact, not meant to be used as an offensive brawl-provocation organisation!!

Britain's politicians for one are horribly late in retaliating for 1988 Lockerbie-bombing.. By now more people have died because of inaction, then all those poor passenger on that Pan-Am flight that had exploded all together..

And then the French government: Are they intervening to regain an influence in North Africa again, just like in the Colony-years? It starts like this: Look at us, we'd help you, but we want influence now, we tell you to do xyz, and you have to give in to our demands for we had helped yer arse out of the fire in the first place!!

Indeed a different approach to actual colonization by means of secretly playing Neo-Imperialism all over again! It's the same content in the box, just a different giftwrap around the actual package here!

And I do not merely talk the amount of time passed since this Libyan and/or Arab uprising and wars had begun... Nato ánd the EU, ánd US policy-makers supported these regimes the whole time for their own dirty little gain, of having a finger in the drab, trying to gain a cheap bargaining position for themselves.

It is nothing but replacing assholes with other assholes! Litterally!! We all can agree we all got a shitcrack between the buttocks for that matter, wether it if functions or not is not the issue here, you'll get my point, and I won't explain further into any detail, because this is downright obvious imho!

[Spokesperson 0]

This is no bickering about ideologie...we are trying to point out the ideologies behind this civil war in Libya. The way Ghadaffi ran its country was more in line with european socialim.

So the question is, who and what ideology fuels the Resistance? No word on that so far.

According to the analysis I posted the opposition consists of:

Monarchists

Islamists

Neo-liberals headed by the former privatization minister.

Also looks like a new Libyan government will sign contracts with countries that supported them while not being enthusiastic about China, Russia and Germany.

[Rovka 14]

And you all probably wonder why the hell I play wargames on my PC machine?? Well easy to explain, I do so because to vent my own aggression in playing that game.. Otherwise I would end up having killed atleast 10+ people irl by now! Killing is also an addicting matter, to fetishly feed your secret desire for power, that every human being has within themselves! None can be as mean, as a rampaging manmade human killing machine!!

For sure it would save alot of tax-money and lives lost if wars are solely fought for profit due to honest simulation technology instead of real life striking blows.. Then we all could witness Washington to be nuked ingame! Or perhaps Amsterdam if you wish to hate me so badly for what I've just said here.. :P That is the only reason I am hoping for a huge western ingame city, to nuke it to shit smithereens, with huge crowds wandering in town..

Mind you: Merely ingame that is, I do not wish to see such horror happen in real life at all! Especially not at the receiving end, wether being the actual target of such bombing or not.. One would rather be vaporized sitting under such explosion, then go through the hell of surviving such a terrible blast only to die later on because of it!!

Yes do not think only the people that are targeted directly by such weaponry are the actual sole victims there.. They are not, we all are, as that can be compared to a Fukushima-cloud actually going around the world! I do not doubt all the Atmospheric Nuclear Tests have caused us so many cancer-deaths whilst they dare to blame that on smoking-habbits instead!! If 30 percent dies of smoking, what is the cause not told that causes all the other 70 percent of cancer diagnosis and deaths?

I know, use of uranium in weaponry for one, use of bullcrap thrown in our food for the other. And sniffing toxic fossil-fuel fumes all the while.. Heck perhaps that even makes many of us actually alot dumber then we really can be, forcing us to merely use the max of 20 percent of our brains in a live multiple-choice game!! There you go, yet another piece of scientifically proven fact thrown your way again!

Oh and to all calling me a weak pacifist pussy, not showing muscle but some brain usage instead of brawn.. How about you types of people actually openly admitting you all are envious of Hitler and Ghadaffi's types of persons their position, the latest Ghaffy-man still being free to alledgedly kill at will!

I bet you people would love doing the same all by yourselves, even openly lending a hand here and there for good measures and show of bravery! I know this is war-forum apart from anything else first and foremost, many subscribers openly admitting they're fond of war or it's machinery/weaponry including its actual use on live targets or so it seems..

Well if you wish to talk bad about Ghadaffi here, and show me such reactions as some of you folks did, you may point to the man all you wish, but one finger pointing his way, or my way, or anybody else's way but your own, makes three fingers instantly point into your own hypocritical direction! Now what did you lately do to actually make the world a better place for all to stay?? I hear nothing but praise for war barked by most here!! Ghaffy may be a thorn in your balls now, but I didn't hear most of you about the issue, before the uprising began!!

Got anything to say for yourselves there about that? No?? I gues not, you guys just pretend to actualy wish to see innocent pre-positioned purposedly depicted "enemy" heads get popped off again..Remember we're not dealing with an monstrous enemy here, we're dealing with human individuals trying to make a living, most being conscripted into the Armed Forces by draft, and delivering soldier-pay to their families at home!!

Now how about Hugo Chavez or Kim Young Ill paying your family a little visit taking their lives for retaliation of all that alledgedly gone wrong? No you would not like that, as it gets way to personal for you to handle, if that happens inside your own family home eh!! And there you go, now you guys have prove you'd clearly lacked seeing for yourselves, of what such mental blow of seeing your familymembers being killed in front of you does to ya!! Easy picking of an unknown human being, who obviously doesn't live nextdoor to ya in your home state! Would you kill the man if he'd been a relative of yours that easily aswell?? May have happened in the Civil War, of relative versus relative.. But it did gain them nothing from it, but another relative lost! Cheerfull at first, but pained later because of the loss, for it still was your brother, you still knew his human side before sides were chosen, and the war actually had begun!

Da Ghaff-boy may be hung, or shot, or given a deadly injection because this after his trial had been concluded, but the actual terror ain't over by his and his remaining son(s) dissappearing as of yet!! The true terrorists are actually amongst us, especially most close to those who do not know, and are willing to turn a blind eye, accusing another where these kind of patriotic flag-waving war-supporting people are all collectively wrong themselves!!

And soon you'll hear them whimper, whine, cringe and cry out loud: Why oh why did we deserve to be bombed all time, when a homegrown-terror cell concocted their legitimate state-sponsored terrorism-attack!? Go ask the Russians if you dare, they know they'd better have kept their own dicks out of Chechnya for that matter, as they're occassionally are still dealing with bombings directly linked to be caused as result of the two Chechnyan Wars!!

Objective opinion matters people, don't fall for cheap propaganda calling out for another war to be waged. A bit too obvious to see the false security that is state-sponsored, where budgetary cuts are running deep, and trust runs lower every day! For most actually hate the police, and most hate their own government, but do not even can, let alone dare to openly talk about it!! Who's the war-mongering bastard now eh??? Atleast not me! All I ask from my own government to provide is transparant honest policy, with use of true democracy!! Not this pretentious fake false shit they constantly present to all of us here!!

Edited March 23, 2011 by Thani '82

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Enough with the walls of text! I can't take it anymore!!!

:banghead:

[JdB 151]

Also looks like a new Libyan government will sign contracts with countries that supported them while not being enthusiastic about China, Russia and Germany.

Not that strange, favoring the people that helped you over the people that were quite willing to sit on the sideline with a bag of popcorn and leave that murderous lunatic in power :j:

The same happened after WW2. The US liberated the Netherlands, Russia and China didn't, and Germany occupied us, so it's really not that hard to figure out who you'd initially be doing business with the most.

@ Thani '82: Less is more, if you write a wall of text every time, people will stop reading your posts.

Edited March 23, 2011 by JdB

[Big Mac 19]

@ Thani '82: Less is more, if you write a wall of text every time, people will stop reading your posts.

I never started...

[Spokesperson 0]

Not that strange, favoring the people that helped you over the people that were quite willing to sit on the sideline with a bag of popcorn and leave that murderous lunatic in power :j:

The same happened after WW2. The US liberated the Netherlands, Russia and China didn't, and Germany occupied us, so it's really not that hard to figure out who you'd initially be doing business with the most.

@ Thani '82: Less is more, if you write a wall of text every time, people will stop reading your posts.

Which means that the west has economic stakes in the war. A government that had a balanced foreign policy is removed and replaced by a corrupt pro-western one.

[celery 8]

A wisdom dictates that writing a lot doesn't make one a good writer, but rather the ability to say much while still writing little. Reading walls of text only to grasp the opinion of a single person in a single matter is usually a waste of time for everyone.

[jakerod 254]

Which means that the west has economic stakes in the war.

Which is what i've been saying this entire time.

Also since you want reports about Libya killing civilians, why don't you give me some about Libya not killing civilians?

[1in1class 0]

Which is what i've been saying this entire time.

Also since you want reports about Libya killing civilians, why don't you give me some about Libya not killing civilians?

Well now the rebles are targeting the civlians. <link removed for your own sake> More news and stuff on that web site. Door is swingin both ways on this issue, but for some more info, US president and more are coming under fire about there involvment in Libya.

Edited March 24, 2011 by W0lle
Please refrain from posting such links!

[Rovka 14]

Thanks for the info Celery, and my apologies for all if I set off all your "Instant Ego Dream's" exploding prematurely there.

Stay sharp, and please don't let yourself be fooled by them evil governments and all sorts of those who're obviously doing wrong things in our names!

Mind these wolves who're wearing sheeps' cloths...!

And timely wake the sleeping amongst us before it's too late..

Such fatalism thinking pattern sure has a quality of it's own:

In military training they often teach you to emphasis on expecting everything bad coming your way, as in; If you doze off and relax too much, you're good as dead already.

[jakerod 254]

Well now the rebles are targeting the civlians. DELETED URL More news and stuff on that web site. Door is swingin both ways on this issue, but for some more info, US president and more are coming under fire about there involvment in Libya.

First off, i'm not registering at a seemingly unreliable site for this. Secondly, part is being sent to you in PM.

If you guys don't want me to trust the "evil" government or the "evil" media who do you want me to trust? The good media and good government? How do I know which is which? Or should I just go to every conflict zone in the world and do my own fact finding?

Edited March 23, 2011 by Jakerod

[Rovka 14]

How about trusting your own intuïtion Jakerod?? You, I, and everybody may have our own opinions here, but I doubt it will change anything on the world stage at all..

Especially not with such seemingly wide support for war-hungry nationality abusing asshole capitalistic profiteers, revving their war-industry, lining their banks pockets, and make sheeple running straight after any combat-craving captain of any participating nation involved in the whole damn issue that war is!

All for a lost status quo where the world is always changing anyways! Nothing ever lasts. Neither do the US nor the EU as world leading powers that be.. Perhaps today, but these too are eventually being replaced themselves.. Ofcourse it matters how wars are started, but it matters more how they're put to an end!

Edited March 24, 2011 by Thani '82

[Baff1 0]

How about trusting your own intuïtion Jakerod?? ..

Sorry but he's right.

If you can't judge human nature and peoples underlying motives for yourself' date=' no one elses judgements are going to give you a better understanding since you won't be good enough to judge who is trustworthy enough to listen to either.

Make sense of it the best you can just like the rest of us.

My only advice to people is not to instantly jump on the first bandwagon that is going their way. Give some thought to the counter arguements to get perspective.

---------- Post added at 02:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 AM ----------

I know Baff1.. But can you elaborate on how to be an expert on such occassion? You wish to be a surgeon operating people in hospital? Enough blood flowing there for sure. Also enough gunshots and stabbing-wounds to be seen' date=' and even the occassinal skull to be partially seperated from it's internal brains lying under it! Very interesting to see, for sure!

.....

And well perhaps where you live a few banks may have been or are nationally operated by government-subsidiary, but here in NL we got quite a few of them.. We have ABN-Amro wich is run by the state where the latter is the stockholder. And we also had ING-bank being funded with taxmoney to survive the Financial Recession Crisis of late.. And that means they are effectively state-subsidized by means of tax-money. That makes two, even if the latter bank for now, is only partially subsidized instead, of for prolonged time on the former bank mentioned here... And I do agree to the fullest that governments are subsidised by banks.. This is excactly what I tried to project in that long story I wrote backthere..

....

Hey aslong it ain't all falling from the sky around ya at your own home right!? Selfish careless bitches! You'll scream like piglets when another iconic building in your own home country is attacked, with hordes of deaths as result! Look who's laughing then!! Yes mister terrorist themselves! Them presumed terrorists, keep on feeding royally from the collective stupidity, at keeping people dumb at home, and abroad!!

If you truly wish to combat terrorism, try some honest education at home and abroad instead.. Go about and invite Afghan villagers onto seperate parts within the military bases, and make them be able to read if they're analfabetic! ![/quote']

I understand a little bit about ABN Amro.

It's not just your government that bailed it out. It's also mine.

It's not just your government and my government that bailed it out, it was also me.

Are you honestly suggesting to me that there are only 2 banks in the Netherlands?

That 2 = the bulk of Dutch banking? Bollocks mate. Honestly.

It's just sloppy lazy thinking. That's all.

Banks make big money and the government takes their cut of the profits.

They lost money the other year and so the government got a zero cut from most of them abecause there were no profits. They even ended up repaying some of their take to keep the goose that lays the golden eggs alive after a couple of them went bustand needed refloating.

To imagine that your government is bailing out all your banks is frankly laughable. It isn't.

The governments problems are where before the credit crunch they were earnign billions each year off the banks... and spending even more billions than they were earning.. they all got caught out when the bubble burst because they had grown so dependant on the taxation of banking revenues.

Which has caught them all out. Got egg on their faces. They were overspending and assuming prediciting that the banking bubble would go on for ever. Making them fudgewits of the highest order.

As for seing killing, I kill every day. I kill with guns or my bare hands mostly.

How do you become an expert? Practise I guess.

Dedication. Devote enough time and effort to it and you will get better at it.

I've been bombed too.

What goes around comes around. We bomb people. People bomb us.

If we stop bombing people, people don't always stop bombing us.

In fact there is an a credible arguement to make that the lesser ablility/will we have to bomb people, the more we get bombed.

There are many many many nice people in the world. But also some very un nice people in the world.

If you are nice to nice people, they are nice to you. Some people are not nice to anyone. Ever.

These people have to fear you instead.

I like it that we are better at bombing people than almost anybody else.

I think this is a good skill to have.

And if you wish to escalate. I am willing to escalate with you. And if that means nukes... my people have nukes.

People want what I have and they are willing to kill to get it and I am willing to die to keep it.

Britains politicians retaliated for the Lockerbie attack by aiding an American airstrike in 1988 and incarcerating suspects in prisons for decades without proper trial.

This is in my opinion is my nations preferred method of dealing with terrorism. Through internal policing and detainment.

But I do feel the current political enmity for Ghaddaffi still has something to do with these events.

When I say I have been bombed the explosives used were sold to the IRA by the Libyans.

I don't bear them any particular grudge for that anymore than I do the Americans who sent the money to pay for it.

None of them know me personally. Wrong time wrong place. Nothing more.

This isn't a war I have any particular emotional engagement in or wish to see pursued.

I don't hate the Libyans. I don't hate Ghaddaffi and I don't hate the rebels.

The rebels in Benghasi are alive because the Ghaddaffi's men are dead.

If that's what colonialism and imperialsim is... then so be it. Colonialism and Imperialsim clearly aren't all bad after all.

Whatever else happened, a massacre was prevented. I truely believe that.

I don't for one minute think that if you just educate people that violence in the world will stop.

I don't think the causes of terrorism is poor schooling.

If I teach an Afghan to read... will he then stop selling heroin to people in my country?

Will he then stop wanting to rule his own country in place of some other?

If every Arab in Oilland learns to read, will they still sell me all the oil I need at the price I am able to pay?

People have conflicting intrests. We fight.

It has always been this way and if you teach people to read, this is one of the firsts thing they should read about. Human history.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Baff1

[jakerod 254]

I honestly don't remember why I asked that question anymore. It was directed towards someone's post but I forgot to quote it and now I don't remember whose it was. I think the main point of it had something to do with each individual only posting articles that sided with them though or something like that. I don't know just ignore the question now I guess.

[Tonci87 163]

Oh no, now BAff starts with walls of text. Guys I really like reading, yes I do. But seriously, I don´t have the time for this....

[Spokesperson 0]

Which is what i've been saying this entire time.

Also since you want reports about Libya killing civilians, why don't you give me some about Libya not killing civilians?

The burden of proof lies on the one who accuses others of having committed a crime. You can claim there is a teapot around Jupiter, I can't disprove that. But it doesn't mean it's there.

Libya: it wasn't supposed to be like this in free Benghazi

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8401787/Libya-it-wasnt-supposed-to-be-like-this-in-free-Benghazi.html

About which media to believe in. You got to indentify motives, and judge the stories based on their interests and stances. You can also find contradictions in various reports. Like the one that stated that the jet shot down over Benghazi was Gaddafis (they claimed it was, accused him of violating the UN-resolution and the cease fire) but they had no clue. Still they lied.

Unfortunately it's a part of the system that there's a media/information monopoly. A minority owns most of the companies that filter and produce information. Even if they usually have no direct impact on the contents of articles they choose boards that follow their political ideas and goals.

[jakerod 254]

The burden of proof lies on the one who accuses others of having committed a crime. You can claim there is a teapot around Jupiter, I can't disprove that. But it doesn't mean it's there.

Libya: it wasn't supposed to be like this in free Benghazi

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8401787/Libya-it-wasnt-supposed-to-be-like-this-in-free-Benghazi.html

About which media to believe in. You got to indentify motives, and judge the stories based on their interests and stances. You can also find contradictions in various reports. Like the one that stated that the jet shot down over Benghazi was Gaddafis (they claimed it was, accused him of violating the UN-resolution and the cease fire) but they had no clue. Still they lied.

Unfortunately it's a part of the system that there's a media/information monopoly. A minority owns most of the companies that filter and produce information. Even if they usually have no direct impact on the contents of articles they choose boards that follow their political ideas and goals.

They never said it was Gaddafi's. The first thing I read was that it was a rebel Mig-23 that had been shot down by friendly fire and that is what it appears to have been.

[Spokesperson 0]

They did, but most of them changed the story (or removed it) later in the day.

[maddogx 13]

At least that part seems pretty straightforward. An aircraft is shot down by NATO forces, so obviously people assume it was OPFOR. Later on they find out it was actually flown by the rebels, so the story is corrected. Looking for a conspiracy there is a bit of a stretch.

[jakerod 254]

They did, but most of them changed the story (or removed it) later in the day.

None of the places I get my information from changed the story.

Also from what I've heard it wasn't NATO fire that brought it down but rebel fire. They confused it for a Libyan Air Force Mig-23.

[maddogx 13]

Also from what I've heard it wasn't NATO fire that brought it down but rebel fire. They confused it for a Libyan Air Force Mig-23.

Then I was misinformed. Sorry. ;)

[Spokesperson 0]

No, the plane was most likely shot down by the rebels themselves.

It is no conspiracy, but the way they assume things without proof is bad. Same thing goes for civilian casualties, they always doubt the footage of injured civilians shown by Libyan TV and then pan to footage of wounded civilians on rebel TV instead to "prove" that violence against civilians comes from the Gadaffi side. But they still never doubt if they are civilians or rebels. They are always civilians.

[jakerod 254]

Then I was misinformed. Sorry. ;)

No problem. Here's a link about it if you want more information although it seems like the exact situation or at least the status of the pilot is still a bit sketchy.

Rebel Jet Crashed

[1in1class 0]

Update on some UN stats, http://news.yahoo.com/video/business-15749628/24633000#video=24639284 And no Jakerod its not an unreliable site. More and more are pulling out from this conflict, but do watch the video. If you have not read about the Syria conflict yet it's the same as Libya, Military forces opened fire on protesters killing up to 4 and 20 injured. Guess we should step into that conflict too right?