Libyan Air-force ordered to bomb protesters

[ArmAriffic 10]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/21/us-libya-protests-pilots-idUSTRE71K4S320110221

[Daniel 0]

Good men. Doesn't seem like the same can be said for some of their comrades. What a mess.

[icebreakr 3159]

They defected in their Mirage F1s. Much better choice than to strafe unarmed civilians and friends among them.

edit: typo :)

Edited February 21, 2011 by IceBreakr

[froggyluv 2136]

LOl, I think you meant defected - I was seriously looking around various news sites to see how they were deflecting :p

Lots of worldly unrest -I think many of us instinctively cheer for people demanding change/freedom/no government -But I wonder will democracy really fill the vaccum or something else...

[Thunderbird 0]

What about getting ride of their aviation with a few Tomahawks... Since 1995 US/European involvement in the Balkan crisis, this becomes the first serious legitimate cause to get involved in.

Regards,

TB

[maturin 12]

A no-fly zone to prevent further deliveries of mercenaries is an idea that has been floated. They are the real killers. As I understand it, the attacks by jets were aimed to destroy supplies of weapons available to protesters, but that was hours ago and maybe they're just busily bombing their own capital now. Once you've taken that step, there's really nothing more to be said for your government.

[JdB 151]

Not surprising. The mistake the Libyan people has made is to use the same approach as the Tunisians and Egyptians have. The one flaw is that in both those countries, as well as Jemen and the other countries that are experiencing pro-democracy protests, the US has a significant influence, and can pressure the regimes to use restraint. Libya has long been reigned by Khadafi, the only one to resist the US. All through the middle east, most of the normal people hate the US, but the US was the one reason why all of these regimes didn't just slaughter their way out of trouble like they have done in the past, and it was the US that enabled the peaceful toppling of these regimes (mostly), which is a great mistake imo. The US doesn't have any influence in Libya, and see what happens. They might have been deprived of democracy (if only they had improved the standard of living, no one would have been asking for regime change, well-fed people are happy people), but they were reasonably reliable allies that you could count on to keep the extremists out of power. These regimes lose power, and see what happens. Westerners attacked, beaten and even gang-raped, sexual harassment of Western women was already widespread throughout the middle east. Thank you infidels for our freedom, now die. Rich.

Most of the North African countries will be ruled by extremists within 10 years, WW3 in 25 years max when the extremists have taken over enough countries with their accompanying arsenals. Their rise to power will not be anything to do with democracy, the majority of people in these countries may very well not vote for them, but the vote of the almighty Kalashnikov stills reigns superior over any ballot box.

Edited February 22, 2011 by JdB

[Hans Ludwig 0]

So if you have a protest that automatically equates it to a "pro-democracy" protest?

Edited February 22, 2011 by Hans Ludwig

[4 IN 1 0]

A no-fly zone to prevent further deliveries of mercenaries is an idea that has been floated. They are the real killers. As I understand it, the attacks by jets were aimed to destroy supplies of weapons available to protesters, but that was hours ago and maybe they're just busily bombing their own capital now. Once you've taken that step, there's really nothing more to be said for your government.

Wait, you believe in what that nut job said?:butbut:

[Thunderbird 0]

The mistake the Libyan people has made is to use the same approach as the Tunisians and Egyptians have.

There is no other alternative than following this approach to take out Kadafi. The only difference is that the libyans will suffer twice than their neighbors to make him fold.

Regards,

TB

[Beagle 684]

What about getting ride of their aviation with a few Tomahawks... Since 1995 US/European involvement in the Balkan crisis, this becomes the first serious legitimate cause to get involved in.

Regards,

TB

Why do you call for war...this is a internal lybian affair, we have to stay out of this and do not repeat the horrid mistake we made in the balkan. If you start this you have to invade the whole arrab leagie since ther eis turmoil everywhere now...it also starts in Saudi Arabaia now.

The worls is changing rapidly and the old recepies do not work anymore. this is not Lybia fuelign inteernational terrorism or invadinfg another counrtry.

[Tonci87 163]

Jesus, ordering strafing runs on your own people is really horrible. Guess we will hear soon about Tanks shooting randomly into the crowd. Those two Pilots really did the best they could, its a shame that not all of the Pilots have such a sense for honour

[concurssi 11]

Crazy a-holes. I'm not sure how I feel about this. If us foreign n00bs get involved, then can they really learn to fix their own problems? But on the other hand, civilians are getting bombed.

[Tonci87 163]

Yeah doing nothing would be horribly wrong in my Opinion.

[Beagle 684]

Crazy a-holes. I'm not sure how I feel about this. If us foreign n00bs get involved, then can they really learn to fix their own problems? But on the other hand, civilians are getting bombed.

Ghadaffi already left the country, No "dictator" can regain power after such massacres to own people. thats the end. And I hope this also the end to ghadaffis sons immunity in germany...the younger one would have been in jail already for a few years for a plethora of crimes done here which found no prosecution because of his status as a diplomat. Wester intervention would makes this omnyl worse...just look at Iraq and Afghanistan, we can't handle it already.

[Tonci87 163]

Wasn´t he arrested in switzerland some years ago and they had to let him go again because of his father?

[Beagle 684]

Wasn´t he arrested in switzerland some years ago and they had to let him go again because of his father?

I think he's behaving the same everywhere, living a criminal life with a diplomats passport, every gansters dream.

[Thunderbird 0]

Why do you call for war...this is a internal lybian affair, we have to stay out of this and do not repeat the horrid mistake we made in the balkan. If you start this you have to invade the whole arrab leagie since ther eis turmoil everywhere now...it also starts in Saudi Arabaia now.

The worls is changing rapidly and the old recepies do not work anymore. this is not Lybia fuelign inteernational terrorism or invadinfg another counrtry.

So what? Wanna sit down and watch civilians getting bombed and killed by military choppers, murdered by mercenaries?

And all arab nations are against what's going on in Lybia, destroying their aviation doesn't mean you have to send troops on the ground.

Just remember Iraq in 1995 - Sudan in 1998... or the french intervention in Ivory coast in 2004

If we just fuking sit'n watch. More people will get massacred... Khadafi is not the kind of leaders to withdraw easily.

Ghadaffi already left the country

Negative, watch the news. He's still in Tripoli.

Regards,

TB

Edited February 22, 2011 by Thunderbird

[concurssi 11]

If we just fuking sit'n watch. More people will get massacred... Khadafi is not the kind of leaders to withdraw easily.

Regards,

TB

Ghadaffi already left the country...

Ehem...

[Beagle 684]

Ehem...

He tried to flee to Venezuela but they did not let him in so he musz be somwhere over the Carribean or South Atlantic right now. I guess he saw himself end likre Mussolini if he stay. Edited February 22, 2011 by Beagle

[Zipper5 74]

Why do you call for war...this is a internal lybian affair, we have to stay out of this and do not repeat the horrid mistake we made in the balkan. If you start this you have to invade the whole arrab leagie since ther eis turmoil everywhere now...it also starts in Saudi Arabaia now.

I live in Qatar, and I can safely say that there have not been any reported protests relating to those in Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, Libya, etc. in Saudi Arabia. The nationals of Saudi are mostly all well-off due to the country's massive wealth, and have no need to rebel.

See this map for reasons I would be aware of this:

[Beagle 684]

I live in Qatar, and I can safely say that there have not been any reported protests relating to those in Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, Libya, etc. in Saudi Arabia. The nationals of Saudi are mostly all well-off due to the country's massive wealth, and have no need to rebel.

See this map for reasons I would be aware of this:

O.K. you're right that there is no turmoil in Saudi Arabia, but the Tension is there, I mean hey...even here in germany we have this tendencies off more and more ranks of citizens activly protesting against the government decissions. It's global.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuttgart_21

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,589782,00.html

http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article12429868/Linksextreme-Randale-nach-Demonstration-in-Berlin.html

21 years ago the fall of the GDR started like this and we in the west just 20km away did not notice it to its ful extend untill the iron curtain really fell.

Frustration in contemporary politics is not all about weath.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Beagle

[Baff1 0]

Not surprising. The mistake the Libyan people has made is to use the same approach as the Tunisians and Egyptians have. .

They didn't. The Egyptian protesters all marched on "Freedom Square".

The Libyan protesters marched on the military bases and looted the armouries. They have rifles, machine guns and RPG's.

---------- Post added at 12:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 PM ----------

I live in Qatar, and I can safely say that there have not been any reported protests relating to those in Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, Libya, etc. in Saudi Arabia. The nationals of Saudi are mostly all well-off due to the country's massive wealth, and have no need to rebel.

What about those that aren't allowed nationality?

The sub nationals?

How is Saudi for that kind of thing?

In many countries like Bahrain for example it is the Shia underclass that are the expected revolutionaries.

---------- Post added at 12:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 PM ----------

Why do you call for war...this is a internal lybian affair, we have to stay out of this and do not repeat the horrid mistake we made in the balkan. If you start this you have to invade the whole arrab leagie since ther eis turmoil everywhere now...it also starts in Saudi Arabaia now.

The worls is changing rapidly and the old recepies do not work anymore. this is not Lybia fuelign inteernational terrorism or invadinfg another counrtry.

Invading Libya is Italy's job. I doubt they will need any help with it.

[Zipper5 74]

What about those that aren't allowed nationality?

The sub nationals?

How is Saudi for that kind of thing?

In many countries like Bahrain for example it is the Shia underclass that are the expected revolutionaries.

For most of them, their lives in Saudi are undoubtedly better than they would be back in their home countries. That may not actually be too hard to accomplish but, again, because of it, they have no reason to rebel.

However, there are so many of them in the world, and all the employers of those currently there reserve the right to terminate their employment at a moment's notice, that if thousands rebelled it would be a matter of giving the go-ahead to hire 10,000 more and deporting those now without jobs. For every one that comes to the country there are 100 who want to do the same.

[Baff1 0]

How many of them are there then?

Enough to put up a fight?

10,000 is enough people to fill that Freedom Square in Cairo for example.