Dutch Minister may ban remains in extremely violent games

[Infam0us 10]

and it is shown in psychological tests too (games are new branch of media, so for sure 10 years old kid who should watch Mumintroll , watches in TV a lot of things which make him aggressive and learns that violence is way to deal with problems)

Please state which studies, by whom and what year they were published here please. As I doubt you will find a study which says what you claim as explicitly.

[kavoven 4]

As far as I know, seeing violent things can make you more aggressive in some kind of "memory activation" way, that means that the mental picture of violent acions is more present.

In psychology you call this stuff priming - due to mere presence of some kind of information it is more accessable in your mind. Lets say I show you the following sequence.

1) A cross - 1000 milliseconds (thats the fixation point, you have to look at it)

2) Rubbish - 100 ms (in general its called a "mask")

3) A word - 20 ms (thats the prime)

4) Rubbish - 100 ms

5) Another word - 1000 ms (something they have to react to)

The task is to tell if step 5 is a meaningfull word. So lets say if step 3 is "bone" and step 5 is "meat" people will react faster and say "yes its a word" than people who see "flower" in step 3 and "meat" in step 5.

This effect is a proven fact in psychology and it works with numerus things. If I put a gun next to the computer you're working on, you'll react faster to things that are in a way connected to that gun.

And that can happen with violent video games, too. However, it can also happen if you read a violent book, see a violent movie, witness two kids beating each other upon a playground and so on.

[jerryhopper 286]

UPDATE

Majority of house of representatives will vote against game ban

It is highly unlikely that a ban on "extremely violent" video games comes as the Justice Minister has proposed. From a tour of Tweakers.net among political parties that a majority opposes.

Much of the political parties in the House disagrees with the caretaker Minister of Justice Ernst Hirsch Ballin. The minister wants the sale of 'extremely violent' videogames and banning the sale of such games to young children is not returned. That he wrote earlier this summer in a letter to the House. Last week the Minister confirmed again in this case a ban would set.

The CDA-minister gets little support from other political parties. SP, PvdA, VVD and GroenLinks reacted negatively towards Tweakers.net expressed on a possible ban. These parties together have a majority of 86 seats of the 150 rooms.

Moreover, the PVV and D66, which wanted to or could give no comment, probably against a ban. That would be a parliamentary majority of 120 seats against.

MP Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert on the opposite Tweakers.net VVD says: "We are opposed to a game ban. That Hirsch Ballin no ban on violent films is because there would be less support in the community level than one game ban, she finds itself: "That a like watching movies and others prefer to play games, and that there will be a ban on violent games to come, is a bit strange. " The conservative MP could not say whether the negotiations on government formation on one game ban was discussed.

According to MP Martijn van Dam of the Labour Party is not for the government to "these limits' to. "You can not objectively determine what is extremely violent," says Van Dam. Furthermore: "There are already limits. It is already banned in games to incite hatred or violence." Van Dam thinks most people the difference between a good game and reality can be identified.

"We believe that vendors should have their affairs in order," says Green Left MP Tofik Dibi. "But we will never vote for a ban. There never was a causal relationship between games and aggression." As long as that link is not shown, supports his party no ban, says Dibi. "We as a party anyway cautious prohibited. SP-MP Sharon Gesthuizen also favors better enforcement of the age classification, but: "We are against a ban."

PvdA MP Van Dam also thinks that game stores could better age control than at present. According to Labour MP Van Dam is the proposal of Hirsch Ballin, however, amounts to censorship. He also suspects that the ban is not forthcoming, he thinks that the "tough words" the Minister primarily as a back door for industry is intended to force them to improve the control of age. VVD MP Hennis-Plasschaert said it is the responsibility primarily of parents wanting to explain: "The government can not solve everything."

The Freedom Party did not comment Tweakers.net opposite, but in an email exchange with a voter writes a member of the PVV group that his party "a ban on violent games and videos does not like." "What the PVV on something you do not worry," said a party worker. The mail exchange took place earlier this year, well before Hirsch Ballin his letter sent to the House. A month ago, confirmed a group secretary's view, however, over the same voters.

D66 was not available for comment, but said the party's election "not a public responsibility" to see "to develop policies for the content of games. Also requires the party against "censorship" in its media, the party wants to impose responsibility on parents' and not understood in the forbidden. " This suggests that a party ban on violent games probably will not support. Possibly also a prohibition against the Christian Union, the party responded last year, very cautious on any ban on Modern Warfare 2. The party could not be reached for comment. The SGP will probably support the minister, that party was in the past repeatedly in favor of a ban on violent games.

On September 15 the House will discuss the letter from Hirsch Ballin, then determines whether the letter or the substance is discussed controversial topic is explained. Since the government resigned, it has limited space for new policies to propose. GroenLinks MP Dibi also has a discussion with the Minister requested the ban, as he knows them enough support to get the debate is likely within two to three weeks instead.

[vilas 477]

Please state which studies, by whom and what year they were published here please. As I doubt you will find a study which says what you claim as explicitly.

if you would know Polish language i would give tens of links for psychological, police data etc.

texts are written by people with dr. degree , not (university) master degree, those are analisis of children behaviour not only from this part of europe but also about full of anger US cartoons where animals are agreesive to each other vs. slavic fairy tales from cold war where there is cooperation and friendship instead of competition

also people do masters degree about this theme etc.

maybe you in your west are taught that violence is okay, we were taught it is wrong :]

read kavoven too, seems he has knowledge too

of course it is not "about games only", it is "general about violence"

for adults game not affect brain, for kids very much

for us game shooting is just fan, for some of kids it is "whole heart and mind"

Edited August 31, 2010 by vilas

[Infam0us 10]

if you would know Polish language i would give tens of links for psychological, police data etc.

texts are written by people with dr. degree , not (university) master degree, those are analisis of children behaviour not only from this part of europe but also about full of anger US cartoons where animals are agreesive to each other vs. slavic fairy tales from cold war where there is cooperation and friendship instead of competition

also people do masters degree about this theme etc.

maybe you in your west are taught that violence is okay, we were taught it is wrong :]

read kavoven too, seems he has knowledge too

of course it is not "about games only", it is "general about violence"

for adults game not affect brain, for kids very much

for us game shooting is just fan, for some of kids it is "whole heart and mind"

I am sure if the study claims what you say it does there would be a translation into English as it would be a ground-breaking piece of research. I myself have a degree in Sociology and Psychology and am currently studying a Masters in Criminology so I am well aware of what good "data" is.

Also I do not see how "The West" argues that violence is ok, and I would further argue that views in Poland are similar to views of that around Europe in terms of primary socialisation of children. Your last post also fails to make sense to me so please come back with some sources and properly explain what you mean.

[vilas 477]

a loooooooooooooooooot of articles

http://www.google.pl/search?hl=pl&lr=&client=firefox-a&hs=DHN&rls=org.mozilla:pl:official&channel=s&&sa=X&ei=CPl9TP7aMoaWswbH9O2VCQ&ved=0CBMQBSgA&q=wp%C5%82yw+telewizji+na+przemoc&spell=1

just typed in google

if you in west are learn that violence do not influence children, than i am not surprised that in some countries people shoot to each other cause "other color of baseball cap" or hide in forests as "ultra right militias" or justify rich psychopats to abuse poor helpless people

i cannot believe you study such thing and you are surprised, cause there are a lot of articles wrote by doctors and police data about influence of violent scenes at agression of kids/teenagers , or like in some countries they have freedom which limits them to have door painted in other color, but not limits being nazi or have drugs...

seems like your western world is upside down when it comes to morality, like in some countries people criticize when gov. wants make health care not only for rich... you know, Pope JP2 said "matter of humanity is how you treat weak and poor"

and thats are holy words for me , who is human and who not

i am surprised that you on such studies have surprise that violence influence and cause agression in kid/teen minds

really people from west suprise me a lot

maybe because for you competition is something good, we call it rats race and stress in work

or cause self confidence in our tradition is something wrong, while you call shy people wrong ?

for sure there is proven that violence in media touches kids and make them more agressive

for sure our yound teen criminal activity rose 2-3 times comparing to previous generation

Edited September 1, 2010 by vilas

[Dwarden 1125]

now, wish everyone as original poster buys just 75 copies of OA ... :) just for sure ;)

[vilas 477]

but OA is 16, 18 rated, so not touches kids , teens

ban is talked about kids, teens, 10-13 as i suppose

[Deadfast 43]

Vilas, nobody talks about making "violent" (missing definition) games available to children, they are not (theoretically) as it is (age restrictions).

[Infam0us 10]

Read first three articles, no academic sources ... You think what you want to buddy, but question the source :)

[Dynamic Echo 10]

young teenagers doesn't understand why killing in real is bad, so law has to have paragraph in any case if government see problems in society

Right, I am pretty sure that any normal child over the age of, being conservative, eight understands that indiscriminate killing is wrong. Certainly this is the case by the age of ten or eleven. Sure, there are certainly some with psychopathic tendencies who wouldn't see random killings as being wrong, but those are mercifully few and far between.

I'm not saying that younglings should be playing games like ArmA (least violent 18-rated game I've played by the way) or worse things like Gears of War, but I don't think that even at that age there is any significant chance of turning normal children into psychopaths through playing even the most violent of games.

[DnA 5143]

Jerry, you made me a proud Dutch BISer ;)

[vilas 477]

Right, I am pretty sure that any normal child over the age of, being conservative, eight understands that indiscriminate killing is wrong. Certainly this is the case by the age of ten or eleven. Sure, there are certainly some with psychopathic tendencies who wouldn't see random killings as being wrong, but those are mercifully few and far between.

I'm not saying that younglings should be playing games like ArmA (least violent 18-rated game I've played by the way) or worse things like Gears of War, but I don't think that even at that age there is any significant chance of turning normal children into psychopaths through playing even the most violent of games.

games like Arma are not problem

problems are games like GTA when you are criminal fighting police , movies, tv, gore websites

not military games, but mostly TV and movies full of violence are problem

and i agree that military games are are least demoralising

movies showing criminals are something wrong cause they twist upside down old "good guy vs bad guys and happy end Dirty Harry" scenario

and about those people in those articles (denied by someone who says he study this) see problems

if such ban would exist, first it should touch GTA, Pulp Fiction, Natural Born Killers and such like movies from TV (children watch them in 8 PM, while on 11 PM there is less violent movie in TV program )

of course it is fault of TV station who pushes such movie at 8 PM and other type (for example pschylogical or historical movie for more wise people, not for mainstream burger eaters IQ 90) at 11 PM

[Infam0us 10]

I guess were all doomed to have children who are murderous, psychotic killers then. I mean that's what's happening at the moment right ... ?

[vilas 477]

it is not matter "we all"

simply if in past was 0.9 % of such than now for example 1.5% in population

as example

this is not "all" but increase

and 1 cyco person per 99 normal, can break life of dozen of those normal

[nodunit 397]

I find it ironic that games such as GTA where you can have sex with a hooker then beat her up is A-okay but you can't have war games with blood oh no.. well except for gears of war but that is more aliens isnt it? I duno..I can't stand the macho super strong men with throat cancer that look like fridges to look into it enough.

We already have laws in place for these games and ESRB, the problem is nobody cares..parent walks up with their child to the checkout, the person behind (can't remember the name) see's it and doesn't ask a thing or if they do they ask to see the parents license although you do get the rare occasional one wanting to see some age identification of the nonparent (but how rare those are, I guess this fits in with the customer is always right and if you tell them NO you ge fired.)

Of course this is also a faulty method, what is to stop the parent from going to the store without the child and bringing back the M rated game...instead of screwing everyone out of the deal we should punish those who can't follow the rules...stop letting parents blame the companies, instead point the finger back at them and say "No! This is your fault!"

Edited September 2, 2010 by NodUnit

[Laqueesha 474]

I find it ironic that games such as GTA where you can have sex with a hooker then beat her up is A-okay but you can't have war games with blood oh no.. well except for gears of war but that is more aliens isnt it? I duno..I can't stand the macho super strong men with throat cancer that look like fridges to look into it enough.

That's the difference between Europe and the USA. In America, violence is tolerated, but sex isn't. You can show people getting impaled or dismembered, but can't show one nipple on television in the USA. In Europe, it's basically the opposite. Sex is tolerated but not violence.

[vilas 477]

That's the difference between Europe and the USA. In America, violence is tolerated, but sex isn't. You can show people getting impaled or dismembered, but can't show one nipple on television in the USA. In Europe, it's basically the opposite. Sex is tolerated but not violence.

cause more desperated (sexually) and in consequence more aggressive people are to be soldiers for rulers (similar in past , middle ages, arabic countries)

while happy man (full of sex) is happy and in consequence value life and not want do die or kill, cause value life

if you wanna have aggressive men, take naked woman away, their frustration will grow, give them rifle and type aim to destroy in the name of god/king/interest,

if you wanna have peaceful men, give them woman, sex and some food, they will go sleep after sex

:)

for me it is sick too, in my country which is catholic

i always said "killing and hurting people is something bad oposite to making pleasure which is good, cause makes people happier"

in some societies/religions it is upside down...

if man is full stomach / orgazmed, he not wants to fight :) he wants more and then go to sleep :)

man satisfied of life has no reasons to fight , so he is not to be soldier , gov./kings/churches across the world shape society to be under rule, only some real grown democracies stay cool cause people there are happy, but they are under danger, cause another "angry" nation can invade them (not only military but also economically or by immigration and using their welf without work)

and i was talking about GTA, cause "grand theft auto" you are thief which shoot to police and ride over pedestrians

most of games make player "this good guy"

while in gta you are car thief which shoot to policemen and unarmed pedestrians

Edited September 3, 2010 by vilas

[nodunit 397]

That's the difference between Europe and the USA. In America, violence is tolerated, but sex isn't. You can show people getting impaled or dismembered, but can't show one nipple on television in the USA. In Europe, it's basically the opposite. Sex is tolerated but not violence.

It's tolerated but not in a restrained fashion, I've seen many European movies where women had their breasts out and nobody batted an eye, in (north) american movies it's generally during a sex scene..

I think one of the biggest problems is that sex and nudity is encouraged..but in the wrong way. Go to a nude beach and see a naked woman that's fine, see a woman nearly fully clothed, just a tit showing, breastfeeding her baby then suddenly it's gross..seriously something wrong here.

Personally I think the media such as news, movies and modern rap stars (at least those revered in usa) are far more harmful to children than video games.

Edited September 3, 2010 by NodUnit

[Cotala Studios 10]

(i've only read to page 4 so far) but as far as the whole "don't let kids play 18+ games because they can't handle it", I just turned 16 two weeks ago, and I promise you, I have had no thoughts about murdering people or causing any harm to anyone. I am an A,B student in Honors and AP, I work for 3-4 hours after school, and I come home to an alcoholic dickhead of a father. Despite all of this, GTA, ArmA, CoH, BiA, have NEVER given me the thought to go out and kill someone in real life. I'm sick of people thinking that just because one mentally ill 16 year old snaps, all of us will.

[Laqueesha 474]

(i've only read to page 4 so far) but as far as the whole "don't let kids play 18+ games because they can't handle it", I just turned 16 two weeks ago, and I promise you, I have had no thoughts about murdering people or causing any harm to anyone. I am an A,B student in Honors and AP, I work for 3-4 hours after school, and I come home to an alcoholic dickhead of a father. Despite all of this, GTA, ArmA, CoH, BiA, have NEVER given me the thought to go out and kill someone in real life. I'm sick of people thinking that just because one mentally ill 16 year old snaps, all of us will.

It's easier for adults to blame the shortcomings of their children on other things, rather than the children, or themselves. Same can be said for any other group of people. Humans are very arrogant, stubborn creatures. ;)