Project Reality - WIP Discussion

[noubernou 77]

So BIS officially takes legal sponsorship for PR? I find that hard to believe. Yea for the BAF assests they gave you but I doubt they would get in a fit over stuff that you have solely developed. That is your responsibility unless all of PR is a BIS product.

[sickboy 13]

Apple can suck on that EULA! :O :)

Congrats on the imminent release :)

[craig.turner 10]

So BIS officially takes legal sponsorship for PR? I find that hard to believe. Yea for the BAF assests they gave you but I doubt they would get in a fit over stuff that you have solely developed. That is your responsibility unless all of PR is a BIS product.

No, hence I said EULA & the Legal Agreement with Bohemia

However the EULA, and the Signed Legal Agreement with Bohemia - will mean you can not make these available to the public.

ie, The BAF stuff will be covered by the agreement

The EULA will cover our assets as "our responsibility" .

PR: ARMA2 is not an addon we have created to be stripped apart by the community as they wish, its a PvP game mode - hence we want our work protected.

The whole reasoning for PR: ARMA2 was to enhance the MP area, and keep it simple with not having to worry about 6000 addons to play on a server.

There always seems to be a huge debate around this area, when actually its quite simple, we don't want our work ripped apart - that is our decision.

realitystudios, which is our commercial side also has these assets available for the Game industry, and this is another reason for preventing them being ripped out.

It has been proven over the years, that one of the main problems with ARMA2 Public MP, is the fact that Mods/add ons are stripped apart, diluted with other mods, making 1 - it hard for the public to play on the server, and 2 - possible errors when combining mods which throw up errors/bugs on the servers.

PR is attempting to come at this at another angle, and be able to provide ONE Mod that is simple to join and play PvP, without all the problems I have mentioned.

If you do not agree, or like this concept then please look elsewhere for something that may suit your style of gaming.

Its all about choices, which surely is a good thing. :D

.

Edited August 25, 2011 by Craig.Turner

[clawhammer 10]

The only way to "release" missions for PR, is via speaking with our team.

The only way to "legally" run a server with ANY PR assets, is via signing for a server licence - where you will then agree to the terms and conditions to allow you to run a PURE PR Server.

Failure to do this will mean you are in violation of our EULA, and also will put you in a Legal problem with Bohemia.

Thats hard stuff Oo

[User2010 10]

Is it still going to be released by end of august?

[PuFu 4600]

my POV is, since it is released for FREE, PR can put down whatever restrictions and EULA they feel are needed to protect and/or ensure a certain type of gameplay and quality is achieved.

It also creates a precedent, saying "hey, our work is important", failure to follow the EULA will result in legal complications with both PR and BIS. :ok:

I really don't understand why a lot get their panties in a knot over it. It's not like it is forced upon them.

congrats on the upcoming release btw

[.kju 3245]

Sad development.

I am pretty sure there are very limits of an EULA as for national law.

Even on free work you cannot make any requirements you see fit.

One point I wonder is if you made your plans clear to CoolBox

as your AAS is based on his work it seems.

At least your approach is very contrary to his aim (AAS license).

Edited August 25, 2011 by .kju [PvPscene]

[PuFu 4600]

Sad development.

I am pretty sure there are very limits of an EULA as for national law.

Even on free work you cannot make any requirements you see fit.

As long as it doesn't interfere with BIS EULA, or doesn't go over some generic common sense (which from what i was able to read thus far, it doesn't) i see no issue

One point I wonder is if you made sure your plans clear to CoolBox

as you AAS is based on his work. At least your approach is very contrary

to his aim (AAS license).

That is a completely other issue, if code/part of code from outside is being used (AAS, STHUD, etc) without approval on the EULA in question from original creators.

[craig.turner 10]

Sad development.

I am pretty sure there are very limits of an EULA as for national law.

Even on free work you cannot make any requirements you see fit.

One point I wonder is if you made your plans clear to CoolBox

as your AAS is based on his work it seems.

At least your approach is very contrary to his aim (AAS license).

Dr_Eyeball has created the game modes fully from scratch, and is based on 7 years of PR: BF2 Gameplay.

edit: - Apologies ........The Squad HUD we use is also 100% ours, and if anything is a little better for our Gameplay style.

Anything we have used is in the credits (in the manual), and we have a full archive of the agreements in place if required in the future.

A software license agreement is a contract between the "licensor" and purchaser/user of the right to use software. The license may define ways under which the copy can be used, in addition to the automatic rights of the buyer including the first sale doctrine and 17 U.S.C. § 117 (freedom to use, archive, re-sale, and backup).

Many form contracts are only contained in digital form, and only presented to a user as a click-through where the user must "accept". As the user may not see the agreement until after he or she has already purchased the software, these documents may be contracts of adhesion. These documents often call themselves end-user licensing agreements (EULAs).

Licensing terms can also be enforced by use of a license manager, which controls where and how the software is able to run. (Server Licence applications PR employ)

Extracts from the PR: ARMA2 EULA

2.2 In the case of server software license, the application mechanism is through the Project Reality Website. Application for a LICENSE for the SOFTWARE to function as server software enabled to service incoming logon or data requests from remote computers does not automatically grant a LICENSE for use of the SOFTWARE as a server installation.

2.2.1 You are not entitled to host a Project Reality Server without seeking a server software licence initially from Project Reality.

GRANT OF LICENSE

3.0 Upon approval of application for LICENSE the LICENSOR grants LICENSEE a non-exclusive and non-transferable license to use the SOFTWARE only for non-commercial entertainment purposes. Licensee may not disassemble, decompile, reverse engineer, create derivative works of, or modify the SOFTWARE in any way not specified herein. This also includes the use of the SOFTWARE in parts or full within an ARMA2 Mission or in conjunction with any other NON PR SOFTWARE. LICENSOR reserves the right to terminate the LICENSE at any time and for any reason, or no reason at all, and without notice to LICENSEE. Additionally, upon breach of any term of this LICENSE, the license granted under this LICENSE shall automatically terminate without any additional notice to LICENSEE.

5.5 This LICENSE is governed by British Columbia, Canada law (without regard to conflicts of law).

5.6 All new content related to the Project Reality ARMA 2 modification is developed & copywritten by the Project Reality team (Project Reality).

Edited August 25, 2011 by Craig.Turner

[dunedain 48]

One point I wonder is if you made your plans clear to CoolBox.

as your AAS is based on his work it seems.

Well actually CoolBox's AAS is based on Joint Operations, I think. Dr Eyeball's Devastation is based on Project Reality. Both are very similar. I don't think they owe him any explication.

Anyway I more than welcome their approach. There are too many servers with different addon requirements on Arma2, that kinda killed the MP.

Edited August 25, 2011 by dunedain

[clawhammer 10]

Does PR bring its own Dedicated Server? Oo

[maddogx 13]

Does PR bring its own Dedicated Server? Oo

Why should it? :confused:

I really don't understand why a lot get their panties in a knot over it. It's not like it is forced upon them.

Any knotted panties are probably the result of self-entitlement. People who are used to doing whatever the hell they want don't like being told that they can't do something. ;)

Edited August 25, 2011 by MadDogX

[clawhammer 10]

Why should it? :confused:

Iam unsure how they will check if an server has an licence, normally there had to be an mechanism but i belive that will not be possible without modifications in the Server.

[maddogx 13]

Iam unsure how they will check if an server has an licence, normally there had to be an mechanism but i belive that will not be possible without modifications in the Server.

Pretty easy, I'd say. For example, if each server license was bound to an IP, you could easily check the server list for PR servers running on an IP for which no license exists.

[clawhammer 10]

Pretty easy, I'd say. For example, if each server license was bound to an IP, you could easily check the server list for PR servers running on an IP for which no license exists.

Then i wish the nice guy that had to check every server every day a lot of fun :D

Edited August 25, 2011 by Clawhammer

[PuFu 4600]

Well actually CoolBox's AAS is based on Joint Operations, I think. Dr Eyeball's Devastation is based on Project Reality. Both are very similar. I don't think they owe him any explication.

I guess the question was about the code, not the idea behind it...

[maddogx 13]

Then i wish the nice guy that had to check every server every day a lot of fun :D

A script could do that easily, and much more frequently. ;)

[clawhammer 10]

A script could do that easily, and much more frequently. ;)

Ok but:

What happend if they tape someone? Oo

How do you want to contact someone that is running PR on its server without any licence if he leaves no contact informations?

And whats about Testserver, maybe i want to test pr first before useing it?

[gossamersolid 155]

Pretty easy, I'd say. For example, if each server license was bound to an IP, you could easily check the server list for PR servers running on an IP for which no license exists.

Even if they did see it, what can they do to force somebody to stop hosting it. People do much more illegal stuff than hosting a mod without a "license" on server boxes that are rented in datacenters. Do you think a data center will force somebody to stop hosting PR? I doubt it.

[maddogx 13]

What happend if they tape someone? Oo

How do you want to contact someone that is running PR on its server without any licence if he leaves no contact informations?

Ah, now I know what you mean by "tape someone". :D

Well, even if it is impossible to contact the server owner directly, you already have their IP don't you? This will lead you to their hosting service (or ISP, if they're hosting locally). From there you can go the legal route.

And whats about Testserver, maybe i want to test pr first before useing it?

This I don't understand. PR is free to play, so if you want to test it, play it on someone elses server? Why would you need to run your own server just to test it?

Even if they did see it, what can they do to force somebody to stop hosting it. People do much more illegal stuff than hosting a mod without a "license" on server boxes that are rented in datacenters. Do you think a data center will force somebody to stop hosting PR? I doubt it.

Depends who is asking. I doubt UK_Force will simply phone the datacenter and politely ask them to remove the offending server. A cease and desist letter from a lawyer might be a little more effective.

Anyway, I'd say enforcing the licensing agreement is PR's problem, not ours. ;)

Edited August 25, 2011 by MadDogX

[dunedain 48]

I guess the question was about the code, not the idea behind it...

Yeah ? :j:

Dr_Eyeball who made Devastation is working on PR:A2. So it has nothing to do with CoolBox whatsoever. That was kinda my point...

[clawhammer 10]

This I don't understand. PR is free to play, so if you want to test it, play it on someone elses server? Why would you need to run your own server just to test it?

- To test it if it works on your Server

- To check what problems will appear

- To test the mod on an server where you have the control (You can kick others, play alone, better test of all features work without get disturbed by others).

[draakon 11]

How do you want to contact someone that is running PR on its server without any licence if he leaves no contact informations?

You can always do a IP trace to find out who is the servers ISP, ask for contact details trough them due to legal reasons and then contact the owner or demand from the ISP themselves to cut the server off from the internet. It's that simple.

And whats about Testserver, maybe i want to test pr first before useing it?

In PR:BF2 its simple. You need to have access to dedicated server files before you can host a Internet server. Without those, you can still host, but only in LAN based environment.

Now, Arma 2 on the other hand at the moment does not need separate dedicated server files to have a Internet server for your favorite mod. Unless PR:Arma 2 Dev Team has made something like this, then you need a server license to host a Internet server. Don't hold me true on that.

I am pretty sure there are very limits of an EULA as for national law.

Even on free work you cannot make any requirements you see fit.

Consider EULA the lowest point of a law. In each todays modern democratic world, you have a highest point of law called Constitution. All other laws below this have to follow the Constitution. Then you have lower laws, from country wide effecting laws (like no drugs allowed in USA) to region based (like no video games allowed in California only PS: THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE) and then to even local laws (like civilians can't drive their bought military vehicles around that park or something like that). EULA is just like an law, but only applies to the product it came with it. Now, if it restricts free speech (to even not allowing it) during your usage of the product, the author is free to restrict such thing, due to the fact you are (so to speak) a quest in the authors house.

One point I wonder is if you made your plans clear to CoolBox

as your AAS is based on his work it seems.

At least your approach is very contrary to his aim

One could say that CoolBoxes AAS is based around the Battlefield Conquest mode. But thats another story. As long as the actual code pieces are not copy&pasted, its fine.

Edited August 25, 2011 by Draakon

[craig.turner 10]

It amazes me how nearly 80% of this thread is spent discussing how/why and the legalities of ripping this MOD apart to use as people want, instead of discussing the actual Mod itself.

I must have said over 20 times in this thread why and how we are doing it the way we are.

The server issue, is covered using a server whitelist on our realitymod host, that will cross reference with the client. Meaning if a client attempts to join a non official PR server (ie not on the whitelist), the screen will black out and he will be unable to join.

.

[Psilocybe 3]

Enough of this server mumbo jumbo! Force, how is the gameplay going in terms of Rubberbanding when most players are fairly local to the Server(damn i mentioned server)?