Project Reality - WIP Discussion

[gossamersolid 155]

Why would they ever remove the editor? CAN they even remove it?

Best they can do is redesign the menu's dialogs so it's not there, but then we just dePBO it and put it back in.

Removing the editor from ArmA is removing the point of it being on ArmA...

[dmarkwick 261]

Removing the editor from ArmA is removing the point of it being on ArmA...

Well exactly. I'm not going to make a big thing out of it because right now it's just "something I heard", but it's be a dealbreaker for sure.

[galzohar 31]

I guess they can modify the menu so You can't access it. And that'd be very lame.

That won't even work. You can still use the vanilla editor and then edit the mission.sqm to replace whatever vanilla assets you have used with the PR assets.

They can't stop you from making anything. But since people will probably only play on official servers to gurantee that they will have:

- Healthy admin control

- not require any additional, possibly-incompatible mods

- no "crappy mission made by random dude X"

- more players that joined because the above

At least I know those things will make me want to stick with official servers, and be enough of a reason for them to not go out of their way to stop you from making your own stuff. Especially considering it will be very difficult to stop you from doing anything.

[gossamersolid 155]

No decent servers put "crappy missions" (meaning technically flawed) on their servers anyways.

Plus "crappy missions" is purely opinion, one might think the official missions are crappy.

[galzohar 31]

Yes well if official PR missions are crappy then their project would be pretty much failure, since they whole point of their project is to bring quality PvP gameplay to Arma, and we all know gameplay is mostly how you make your missions. If PR missions are "crap" I don't see a lot of reasons to bother with the mod. But considering the amount of effort they're putting into making and testing those missions (probably and hopefully way more than any single mission maker or even community can) I highly doubt they'll be "crap".

For PvP you need a lot more than just "not technically flawed" to get good gameplay.

[gossamersolid 155]

by technically flawed, I meant to include balancing in there as well and other stuff such as errors, low framerate, etc.

I didn't say they'd be crap either, you missread my post. I said one might THINK they are crap (compared to something they could make).

[galzohar 31]

What I mean that if one might think they are crap, and let's say he runs a server and can choose what missions go on there, why would he be attracted to a mod that has its main focus on those missions that he thinks are crap? Why not just run other mods with missions that he thinks are good?

It just makes little sense to play PR and not use their missions, at least if they actually stick to the scope of their mod as they described it.

[Rhodesy77 11]

becuase they may want to use PRs high quality maps and units but wants to play coop with some mates?

[jedra 11]

becuase they may want to use PRs high quality maps and units but wants to play coop with some mates?

This is the crux of it. PR will be good, but it would also be great to use some of the assets to make other missions too. At the end of the day, the purists will play on dedicated purist PR servers.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Anyway, locking PR so no-one can build missions seems to be against the whole Arma ethos. If BI had taken that attitude, there would be no PR!

[Psilocybe 3]

I barely play online. I barely play missions. Arma to me is basically about the editor and I have a blast with all the mods and little bullshit Ambushes I set up.

That said, with PR having it Possibly blocked off, I find myself absolutely unphased. I will play PR as intended, and if I find the need fOr some editor goodness I'll fire up one of my other quality mods instead and go for my life.

I can't see how it's a deal breaker at all, and surely there will be many nice missions to begin with and with an editor as nice as arma's it wouldn't surprise me if new missions didn't become available on a regular basis - and talented people adamant to do such things with PR might consider trying to get on board the team as a mission maker.

[maddogx 13]

i ear they removed the editor in the mod, if yes don't count on me to download it, i want and need to make my own mulitplayer mission too

Where did you ear this? Source?

[SnR 1]

Where did you ear this? Source?

He shall only say dis once.

[azz_er 10]

I also fail to see how PR would manage to keep the PR missions only on official servers. As Im sure people with the pbo's would share them amongst their friends/squad members.

[gazzthompson 10]

Guys we have a rule of thumb on the PR forums. Unless you have a direct quote from a DEV treat it as utter bullshit.

[PuFu 4600]

becuase they may want to use PRs high quality maps and units but wants to play coop with some mates?

because when you make a free mod, you are entitled to do it as YOU please? Is that so hard to grasp?

Besides, this is nothing but rumour, so i don't see why so many ppl get their panties in a bunch

[galzohar 31]

Yeah they actually said specifically that it simply won't support AI/coop. Means simply if they make some feature in the mod it might not work very well with/against AI simply because nobody bothered to make it work. They also said officially that commanding AI will not really work as you know it if at all since they are removing the default BIS command bar which is useless in PvP (and they are making better ways to command your human squad). So overall if you want to play it in coop you can probably expect for some maybe-not-so-pleasant experience. That is, unless you find a way to just rip the islands and units out of the mod, but that most likely will be against their rules.

Nobody can stop you from doing anything on unofficial servers. Well, they could have critical server-side scripts that they will put in a server-side version of the mod and only give it to official server owners, but I doubt they will.

After all the main reason to play on official servers will be that you are guaranteed that those official servers will be keeping up with the official standards. No "where is the admin to kick that guy" or "you have been kicked for not having mod X" or "who the hell made this mission?".

[abs 2]

because when you make a free mod, you are entitled to do it as YOU please? Is that so hard to grasp?

Besides, this is nothing but rumour, so i don't see why so many ppl get their panties in a bunch

This. I've been wanting to blast the whiners here as well, but have been holding back.

Their mod, their rules...simple as that. Everyone needs to stuff their sense of entitlement where the sun don't shine.

Abs

[gossamersolid 155]

because when you make a free mod, you are entitled to do it as YOU please? Is that so hard to grasp?

And when we download that free mod, we are entitled to play it how we wish.

Their mod, their rules...simple as that.

Now that's just acting like a baby. It's MY toy and you HAVE to play it a certain way! *pout* *pout* *pout*

Well see what happens when PR comes out, but it's on the ArmA engine, it's not too hard for us to fix things.

[jibemorel 10]

I think think there will be 2 PR, one clientside for everyone and one serverside distributed only to server-admin who agreed with PR rules. So i don't think it will be possible to modify anything if you want to keep your server license.

[dmarkwick 261]

This. I've been wanting to blast the whiners here as well, but have been holding back.

Their mod, their rules...simple as that. Everyone needs to stuff their sense of entitlement where the sun don't shine.

Abs

Welcome to a discussion forum where stuff is discussed :)

[ACPL Jon 68]

Abs & Pufu, sorry but that's just utter bullshit talk. That way there wouldn't be any feedback or critics to make things better... You know, because it's someones mod, so he can fill it with bugs and bad dev decisions, as he likes.

ffs that's what forums are for - so we can speak our mind. Don't You guys get it, after so many years? -.- "whiners"? are we entitled to only lick peoples asses?

Some time ago I got bashed by I44 PacUk just because I said "everything is beatiful, but garand sound isn't really good" or something like that PLUS I provided some samples, opinion on how it should sound and offered some help on finding a good solution. Then I got flamed, even with calling me an idiot, just for trying to help them make the mod better. That's how You thank guys who write something else than "epic thx random licking ass sentence", that's how You see the "community" thing? I see You guys don't want to enhance things?

Get a clue :|

oh, new posts. Yes, what DMarkwick said.

Edited August 5, 2011 by JonPL

[maddogx 13]

Funny how the discussion starts to heat up here as soon as someone starts talking of restricting what players can do with a mod. Of course the ability to open up a mod and look inside is great for addon makers to learn from others - that's how many people learn and it raises the overall quality of the modding community.

On the other hand, a mod team is well within its rights to release their content under a restrictive license. No one here is entitled to do anything with the addons they download - the ability to reverse engineer something does not mean that everyone is allowed do whatever they want with it. For example, if PR were to release their mod under a Creative Commons by-nc-nd (attribution, non-commercial, no derivatives) license, people could still pick it apart at their own leisure, but modifying it and releasing a derivative version would be forbidden.

Edited August 5, 2011 by MadDogX
typo

[dmarkwick 261]

Funny how the discussion starts to heat up here as soon as someone starts talking of restricting what players can do with a mod. Of course the ability to open up a mod and look inside is great for addon makers to learn from others - that's how many people learn and it raises the overall quality of the modding community.

On the other hand, a mod team is well within its rights to release their content under a restrictive license. No one here is entitled to do anything with the addons they download - the ability to reverse engineer something does not mean that everyone are allowed do whatever they want with it. For example, if PR were to release their mod under a Creative Commons by-nc-nd (attribution, non-commercial, no derivatives) license, people could still pick it apart at their own leisure, but modifying it and releasing a derivative version would be forbidden.

Oh yeah I agree. To be clear: I was never advocating re-introducing missing components, just questioning it's authenticity :)

But, whatever. I guess we'll all find out pretty soon :)

[gossamersolid 155]

and releasing a derivative version would be forbidden.

Never said it'd be re-released

License or not, nobody re-releases people's content without asking here anyways.

[PuFu 4600]

no one said you or anyone else should be gather round pr's collective hole and start a new religion. on the other hand starting a another interwebz drama based on some rumour is not called feedback nor discussion. no one is forcing stuff down to you, you're still allowed to skip it by not downloading it.

some whine about the possible lack of a mission editor when pr is loaded...just don't load it then...

so again, the decisions when making a mod are not collective, because the work is neither.

goss: the fact that you can open .pbos doesn't mean you should edit them btw, or we gonna hit the same topic regarding certain original creators wishing a better way of securing their works