Do you want upgraded Arma 2 content?

[galzohar 31]

Nobody was asking though for improving the quality of A2 content to be up to OA standards, since it is already pretty much the same quality. But with the missing features there is very little reason to play with the old content, making the whole CO thing almost pointless, and only be used for misc stuff, like the roads in ToraBora (again not because A2 actually adds something, but because OA is missing something), or using LHD on new islands, or some other misc A2 objects that weren't included in OA.

I don't know if I would call OA a "new game". It's the same engine and same graphical quality with some improvements and added features. Much more like an "expansion" in terms of its scale, except it doesn't actually expand the old game but rather replace the old game. Kind of like the terrible idea of World of Warcraft expansions where much of the "old" content becomes pointless and out of date (not that it's a bad idea money-making-wise, but bad for the players).

[Defunkt 431]

Everyone posting new the extent to which they would integrate (the topic of much discussion before and after release) and purchased it anyway, you can't then claim to have been misled. Besides, for 99% of actual purposes (an A2 unit shoots, runs, salutes and dies etc precisely like an OA unit) they are perfectly integrated. I'd like to see that last 1% achieved and I'm hopeful we might (with work likely funded by DLC) but try and retain some perspective and dignity chaps, it never pays to reveal as a full-blown gaming nerd. Fraud LOL.

[galzohar 31]

Yeah I wouldn't go as far as calling it a "fraud", but you can't say it's not misleading. Unless you were told and/or read otherwise or seen it yourself, you probably would have never guessed that this is the situation. I actually find myself telling this to new players on a regular basis because they have no idea this is the case.

[Chill xl 10]

Well thats my point, its unclear what OA actually is, a new game or just an expansion pack. It seems BIS went for a bit of both and thus causing some misconceptions.

Atleast i didnt / dont expect they should upgrade the content, the stuff integrates for me as told by BIS...

[NoRailgunner 0]

No it isn't!

We are not in the argument clinic and no one of you paid 1 or 10 pound extra to BIS. And if one paid - BIS do not argue about that or maybe only in their free time. :p

[gossamersolid 155]

I didn't have to expect to ask if the content would be updated to have OA features because the game is still marketed as an "EXPANSION PACK". If I would have bought a sequel, I wouldn't expect the ArmA 2 content to be updated feature wise to OA's standards.

[max power 21]

Meaning: Standalone expansion pack gives the wrong idea what to expect from it / what it brings.

When a new game comes out, you're not going to ask (some even "demand") that the stuff from the previous game should be upgraded to the new game standards and features let alone for free. Maybe i missed it, but i dont recall seeing such questions arise, when A2 came out, towards the content of A1. OA is sort of a new game...

Okay... Is it stand alone? Yes. Does it expand ArmA 2? Yes. I'm not sure what else you can expect from those words. They don't call it an enhancement for ArmA 2 anywhere.

[galzohar 31]

In many games expansion packs also bring the old stuff up to the new standards, or at least a noticeable part of them. I'm not saying whether it is/isn't reasonable to ask BIS to get this done, but you can clearly understand why people expected it and are surprised when they found out it is not the case.

[dm 9]

In many games expansion packs also bring the old stuff up to the new standards

Pleeze to be listing them...

Only one I remember was the "HD pack" that came with Blue Shift, and that was a replacement rather than an update.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

As long as we're all for semantics, the topic title is.. wait for it... drum role......

Do you want upgraded Arma 2 content?

I agree if you are a follower of of the series, you'd have to be either a tad naive or pathalogicaly greedy to actualy expect it. But want it? Hell yeah!

[gossamersolid 155]

I have a good idea to address these things.

It's almost been 2 years since ArmA 2 came out. Why not include "Lite" copies of ArmA 2 units/weapons for OA players.

Then us Combined Ops players can get our upgraded content and the OA players would be able to join Combined Operations servers.

BIS did real good with this whole "Lite" content idea, why not expand it to ArmA 2 as well?

[Nutlink 10]

Interesting idea, and I like it. A lot.

[galzohar 31]

Is it really so that the "upgrading" won't be possible with the way things are now? It seems like it's mostly the amount of work required (or the amount of content stealing possible if the community would be let to do the work), rather than the "some OA users don't even have the content" problem. At worst it could just be a new addon folder with just the updates (not all of the content so you can't really use it) and you'll only run it if you have CO (won't work with OA because of missing dependencies). Or is this just completely un-workable?

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

Well ... from what I get a simple replacement patch for A2+OA users would fix every problem. Inside of this patch BIS would have to put upgraded 3d models, maybe new textures and new config tweaks. Everything that has not changed is going to applied anyway through class inheritance.

Lets take the backpack feature for example ... in theory, if a community member creates a bunch of USMC units from scratch and applies the backpack feature + replaces (not overwriting) the original units, then we would have the same effect but with community content instead of BIS content. But I'm not into 3d modelling so I don't know if is possible for community members to rework certain features from scratch.

[gossamersolid 155]

I'll just put this down here again because I think nobody read it:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1839574&postcount=136

[dm 9]

And I'll just put this down here again because I think nobody read it:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1834197&postcount=72

[Flash Thunder 10]

And I'll just put this down here again because I think nobody read it:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1834197&postcount=72

^This

Not everything can be brought to "OA standards" simply because the new build of the engine doesnt allow of it. The old engine can't understand new tasks that the newer build of Real Virtuality can.

Less technical people:

For units and such new shaders that have been introduced in RV3 make porting these units or bringing them to "OA standards" is a large workload

new properties like UV maps, Normal maps all them fancy shaders need to be placed and the FLIR maps alone would be alot of work.

:)

[gossamersolid 155]

And once again...

I'm not asking for shaders to be updated. OA/ArmA 2 shaders look the same to me anyways. I just want the config work updated (add Engineer repair to ArmA 2 engineer units). Add Zeroing, TI, etc.

Then something like the BTR-90 interior should be fixed anyways. It was from ArmA 2, it's never worked (frosted white windows, w/e) and those should be fixed.

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

Not everything can be brought to "OA standards" simply because the new build of the engine doesnt allow of it. The old engine can't understand new tasks that the newer build of Real Virtuality can.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but we're talking about using the Arrowhead engine to upgrade some things which won't effect A2 standalone. FLIR view for tanks, countermeasures, engineer abilities, even hiding duplicated objects due to A2+AO is NOT difficult as it could be done by a beginner like myself. Such config upgrades don't effect standalone A2, but improve the units of A2 a little bit if you run A2+AO. Guess what would be possible if modder were able to fix everything by themselves.

[Banderas 0]

Legislator;1840689']Correct me if I'm mistaken' date=' but we're talking about using the Arrowhead engine to upgrade some things which won't effect A2 standalone. FLIR view for tanks, countermeasures, engineer abilities, even hiding duplicated objects due to A2+AO is NOT difficult as it could be done by a beginner like myself. Such config upgrades don't effect standalone A2, but improve the units of A2 a little bit if you run A2+AO. Guess what would be possible if modder were able to fix everything by themselves.[/quote']

Agree with that, there's some misunderstanding here on part of DM, Flashthunder and the BI team. I think most people don't wish to have the new features in ArmA II standalone, but rather wish to see its content is upgraded to OA features if you own both titles. Like there are already some contents in the "Common" library, where for example, the T-72 and the M1A1 are defined to use the newer models, thus we have USMC, CDF, Russian and ChDKZ infantry with "blank" TI textures, and USMC M1A1 and ChDKZ T-72 with OA standard TI textures.

And if BI doesn't have the time/money/manpower/wish/spirit to do it, then we simply wish that they make it possible for the community to fully upgrade A2 content for A2+OA/CO owners.

[dm 9]

Agree with that, there's some misunderstanding here on part of DM, Flashthunder and the BI team.

No, there really isnt.

I think most people don't wish to have the new features in ArmA II standalone, but rather wish to see its content is upgraded to OA features if you own both titles.

This is all well and good, but how do you ensure that people who dont own A2 do not end up with the upgraded A2 content for free? As Suma said, its a distribution nightmare.

Like there are already some contents in the "Common" library, where for example, the T-72 and the M1A1 are defined to use the newer models, thus we have USMC, CDF, Russian and ChDKZ infantry with "blank" TI textures, and USMC M1A1 and ChDKZ T-72 with OA standard TI textures.

Because there were T-72 and M1A1 models included in OA. How are people still not getting that every unit you want updating to use real ti textures requires the entire p3d being re-released in the patch? This is one of the things Suma said BI do not want to do.

And if BI doesn't have the time/money/manpower/wish/spirit to do it, then we simply wish that they make it possible for the community to fully upgrade A2 content for A2+OA/CO owners.

Suma already answered that too, he said that there is still the possibility of new content/upgrades/whatever for ArmA2 standalone, so they dont want to "just let the community do it" because it is again a huge nightmare for them if they do ever release anything new.

[Banderas 0]

No, there really isnt.

But there is, but its on my part, please excuse me for that

Because there were T-72 and M1A1 models included in OA. How are people still not getting that every unit you want updating to use real ti textures requires the entire p3d being re-released in the patch? This is one of the things Suma said BI do not want to do.

I know that, no need to be harsh. I said I wish to have the mlods released for this purpose and BI doesn't want it to happen. Still, my wish stands to have upgraded A2 content when using Combined operations, if it's somehow possible to be made.

I've read about the circumstances about how and why ArmA 1 mlods were released, and I don't wish them to happen once again.

Suma already answered that too, he said that there is still the possibility of new content/upgrades/whatever for ArmA2 standalone, so they dont want to "just let the community do it" because it is again a huge nightmare for them if they do ever release anything new.

Yes he said that there's a possibility, but there's also a possibility that I'll win the lottery next month. But it won't necessarily happen.

This is all well and good, but how do you ensure that people who dont own A2 do not end up with the upgraded A2 content for free? As Suma said, its a distribution nightmare.

Unluckily I don't know the best solution for this, but if I ever come up with one I'll surely be posting it to BI Headquarters.

Right now I only can think about half-solutions, like OA DLCs with some upgraded A2 factions like Desert USMC and Russian faction (these need vehicles to be upgraded next to infantry), or Chernarus/Takistan border area maps where ChDKZ, NAPA and CDF (these mostly need only infantry models to be updated) can clash with the different Takistani factions. So mainly it's about to bring A2 factions into the OA storyline somehow. But as I said it's not a good solution (financially). All I know I would buy such DLCs to have A2 content to be upgraded if that would be an only solution.

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

This is all well and good, but how do you ensure that people who dont own A2 do not end up with the upgraded A2 content for free? As Suma said, its a distribution nightmare.

What about encrypting the content like in the DLC? Or the Lite - High Quality distribution level mentioned before. Basicly what A2 + AO users have right now could be called "low quality" version, although that sounds far more worse than it actually is ;)

Suma already answered that too, he said that there is still the possibility of new content/upgrades/whatever for ArmA2 standalone, so they dont want to "just let the community do it" because it is again a huge nightmare for them if they do ever release anything new.

Regarding the MLODs I agree. In the wrong hands it could get bad for BIS. However applying config entries for a basic startup won't hurt anyone I think. We all know that the A2 content is huge and needs a lot of time to be upgraded correctly. Nobody is expecting any progress within the next months. I'm sure BIS has already a busy time schedule.

However a lot of people still care about A2. Call it curse of success :p

[max power 21]

Yes he said that there's a possibility, but there's also a possibility that I'll win the lottery next month. But it won't necessarily happen.

There's your answer. They aren't currently working on it and it seems unlikely to ever happen. End of thread.

[Banderas 0]

There's your answer. They aren't currently working on it and it seems unlikely to ever happen. End of thread.

Ok, but I would like to win the lottery too :p