Do you want upgraded Arma 2 content?

[dm 9]

What stops BIS from updating P3Ds only for CO users?

Why the aforementioned fixes didn't stop modders from doing that stuff? And look they don't even release any AA2 content for OA as a part of their mods.

Look, you clearly dont understand whats involved in making the changes, and you also clearly cant be bothered to read my posts. So whats the point.

You cant make ALL the wanted changes without updating the p3ds, and you cant distribute those p3ds while ensuring that only the people who are entitled to them actually get them without some massively complex system.

Like I said, the #2 guy in the company explained the technical AND the business reasons why they probably wont do it, and some of you greedy fucks can still do nothing but bitch about it :j:

For the record tho, please link the laser mod, I'd be interested to see how the do it.

Sure you can update the optics, but you still cant add the ti textures, so people (just like you) would still bitch and moan that its only half a job.

Sure, gameplay wise, but its a COMPLETELY different system adding the functionality. You want BIS to completely re-program the backpack system for free in a patch?

[metalcraze 290]

No I want BIS to add what was already done by modders for them.

Is this such a hard and complex concept for you to grasp?

Modders can add optics, lasers, secondary sights to AA2 weapons for free in a mod anyone can download but BIS can't add it to a patch for business reasons? Is there something I miss?

[dm 9]

No I want BIS to add what was already done by modders for them.

Is this such a hard and complex concept for you to grasp?

No, but apparently the concept of preventing distribution issues between the versions is too complex for you to grasp... :j:

[metalcraze 290]

Yes man - those mods sure do cause distribution issues

Their patches have no problem detecting if AA2 is installed together with OA. If they detect both of them installed just make them install compatibility updates and that's it. It's the same as downloading those mods and installing them on our own when we have AA2 together with OA.

Edited January 18, 2011 by metalcraze

[dm 9]

Yes man - those mods sure do cause distribution issues

BIS is a business not a mod team. They have to take care to not conflict their various sales interests (giving away updated ArmA2 content to users who only own OA would be one of those conflicts).

Seriosuly, give it up. Suma has stated why they probably wont be doing it. Bitching about it any more makes you look like a greedy little bastard.

[metalcraze 290]

I don't get it? Do you have problems with reading or something?

Where did I say anything about BIS "giving away ArmA2 content to users who only own OA"?

You do know those mods won't work without AA2? What's the problem?

Bitching about it any more makes you look like a greedy little bastard.

Hahaha. I'm a "greedy little bastard" because I merely want a modder pbo, posted on these very forums, with updated configs for CO - that can be downloaded by any OA user as well, added to an official patch

Edited January 18, 2011 by metalcraze

[galzohar 31]

People will still have to buy Arma 2. Currently most of the CO-requiring addons and missions aren't even dependent on the units, but rather on other things such as roads (ToraBora), LHD (MCC), buildings, and often random objects like ammo boxes that have an equivalent OA object but since you run CO and most people have CO too you don't really pay attention to it and then you make a mission requiring CO.

So even if they release all the units people will still need to buy A2 just as much as they need it today, if they want to play on/with the many servers/missions/addons that require those things.

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

The only things that aren't done yet:

- thermal textures

- working flashlights on AA2 M4A1s

and that's it.

No I'm afraid its not that easy ...

- thermal textures on A2 units

- thermal sights on A2 vehicles and weapons

- flashlights

- IR markers

- backpack ability for every A2 infantry model

- countermeasures on A2 planes and choppers

- engineering ability for A2 engineers

- BTR-90 interior visual upgrade

- lots of config work

- 3d model upgrades (a lot!)

- keeping everything within the licence agreements delivered by BIS themselves

- not breaking previous content!!

- not breaking maybe upcomming content

- somehow doing all this while fixing bugs, earning money with new DLC and the normal business run

I'm sure I forgot a lot of things. As I've already done some config work I'm eager to donate it to BIS and sign it via NDA so they could safe some time and money.

[metalcraze 290]

Have you read my post or just that bit?

2/3 of what you listed is already done by modders (and some stuff by BIS themselves)

Just a little bunch of examples:

AK74 PSO-1 with CQB optics: http://i56.tinypic.com/2zhmsk3.jpg

KA-52 releasing flares: http://i52.tinypic.com/2vl2pvd.jpg

Thermal optics on T-90: http://i53.tinypic.com/1zd55dz.jpg

M-16 with laser: http://i51.tinypic.com/9tog7l.jpg

Detachable backpack on AA2 unit (animation is quite off though but it's a start): http://i56.tinypic.com/2eq9ve1.jpg

Edited January 18, 2011 by metalcraze

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

And are we talking about upgrading ArmA 2 by BIS or community content?

[metalcraze 290]

We are talking about BIS including community fixes into a patch - because community already did enough to make ArmA2 something more than a map pack for OA. You know how it's hard to make people download all these mods when you want them to play on your server and including fixes/upgrades into a patch will make them a standard. It's already there, it adds what people want to their CO, BIS doesn't even have to redo it. Seriously why not?

Edited January 18, 2011 by metalcraze

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

It's already there, it adds what people want to their CO, BIS doesn't even have to redo it. Seriously why not?

Because first of all the modders would have to agree to such things. BIS can't and won't steal from the modders. If nobody wants to share parts, BIS would have to do "everything from scratch", although this description probably doesn't fit into the real situation due to existing access of BIS to the advanced models of Operation Arrowhead.

Second thing is that BIS would have to check adopted community content anyway. Nothing against community mods, but I think that should be standard procedure. It would be catastrophic if third-party content breaks something else.

Third thing might be its economical reputation. Will there be good or bad reputation in general, not just this community? "Look, they're even including the work of their fans! ... or ... Look, those lame b*** don't have the juice to do the work on themselves and rely on fanboy work."

Maybe things are not so difficult, maybe they are even difficulter. Maybe there are really technical issues keeping BIS from updating. I don't know. I just hope the old content completly gets updated someday ... somehow ... by someone.

On a sidenote, I would be happy to get the original OFP and ArmA 1 content updated as well besides CWR2 and CAA1 :D But that would be too much to ask for :D

[metalcraze 290]

Because first of all the modders would have to agree to such things.

Ask them then? I imagine no modder will protest against BIS including their fix into the patch.

Second thing is that BIS would have to check adopted community content anyway. Nothing against community mods, but I think that should be standard procedure. It would be catastrophic if third-party content breaks something else.

Yes. But creating a fix and testing it takes more time than just testing it and fixing what's already done - if there's a bug. Mods in question mostly change something in config.cpp and little else.

"Look, they're even including the work of their fans! ... or ... Look, those lame b*** don't have the juice to do the work on themselves and rely on fanboy work."

I don't see people raging about BIS replacing publisher's localizations with fan ones. Why would they rage about BIS improving their CO? Are there such idiots?

Maybe there are really technical issues keeping BIS from updating

So far to do this you just drop a few pbos into the game's folder. And they don't break anything at all. The difficult part is that you have to hunt and download these mods, which you won't have to do with a patch ;)

BIS can show respect for community by making in-game newslines about mods and giving away jpeg medals - why shouldn't they show a respect by making some wanted fixes official?

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Id like to see a DLC with an decent size Eastern European city for close quarters with some of the A2 stuff (ie spec ops and tracked/wheeled vehicles upgraded). I'm aware that many players go soft for more units but I think it may be too much to expect all A2 units to OA standard in one download.

And given the price of DLC so far I'd be happy with a new map, and campaign if it meant the upgades were included with the parallel patch.

PS; a new larger city should also get new improved civies.

[wormeaten 0]

BIS is a business not a mod team. They have to take care to not conflict their various sales interests (giving away updated ArmA2 content to users who only own OA would be one of those conflicts).

Seriosuly, give it up. Suma has stated why they probably wont be doing it. Bitching about it any more makes you look like a greedy little bastard.

Exactly if they selling CO than should sell CO not A2+OA. And there is no problem such content to work with CO only not on single A2 or OA.

Problem is if they sell A2 and OA as stand alone games what they are in fact but they still advertising CO and sell it is package under CO as merged games what is not true. In normal world you like it or not is calling fraud.

Problem is also they lock that content and you in mod community can't do it by your self because copy rights so they don't want to do it but not allowing us to do it by our self in same time.

[dm 9]

they still advertising CO and sell it is package under CO as merged games what is not true. In normal world you like it or not is calling fraud.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha [breathes in] hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahah

I love it when people use the "fraud" argument. Like I said before, if it pisses you off that much, start a class action suit. And like I said before, I'll see you back here when you get laughed out of the solicitors office.

If you people actually bothered to read the CO packaging, you'll see it says:

Arma 2 and it's stand-alone expansion Arma 2: Operation Arrowhead package.

Nothing more, nothing less. Nowhere does it promise that the A2 content will support the OA features. Nowhere does it promise that the A2 content will ever be updated.

The only thing CO says it will do is allow you to use your A2 content in OA (which you can also do if you bought the 2 games seperately), it makes no promise of 100% compatability or functionality...

[AnimalMother92 10]

[celery 8]

Fully integrates with the original Arma 2 for unmatched warfare simulation.

Freeze scorch.

Edited January 20, 2011 by Celery

[dm 9]

Well shit.

Tho technically its stating that OA integrates with A2, and not A2 integrating with OA, so on semantics its still not saying that A2 gets all OA features...

[galzohar 31]

It's still quite misleading. Maybe not on legal terms, but currently the only way to find out that A2 stuff used in OA will be missing a lot of OA features, is to read it on forums or try it yourself and find out too late.

I don't think anyone other than BIS would feel comfortable saying "Fully integrates with the original Arma 2 for unmatched warfare simulation" about CO.

[gossamersolid 155]

Well shit.

Tho technically its stating that OA integrates with A2, and not A2 integrating with OA, so on semantics its still not saying that A2 gets all OA features...

To 99.9% of people, it means that A2 content and OA content should be matched in features. That is not true in our case.

[Chill xl 10]

"OA fully integrates with the original Arma 2 for unmatched warfare simulation"

does not equal

"The original Arma 2 fully integrates with OA for unmatched warfare simulation"

I dont mind the difference in Arma2 and OA, imo most of the stuff that is "missing" like FLIR does not enhance gameplay greatly. I do think the term "standalone expansion pack" is chosen wrongly, either its standalone or an expansion pack. I would have marketed it as a standalone game in which arma2 stuff can be used and thus rewarding loyal customers that have bought the previous game arma2, making their OA game even better. Now its a bit in between...

[maddogx 13]

Semantics...

[Chill xl 10]

Meaning: Standalone expansion pack gives the wrong idea what to expect from it / what it brings.

When a new game comes out, you're not going to ask (some even "demand") that the stuff from the previous game should be upgraded to the new game standards and features let alone for free. Maybe i missed it, but i dont recall seeing such questions arise, when A2 came out, towards the content of A1. OA is sort of a new game...

[gossamersolid 155]

Meaning: Standalone expansion pack gives the wrong idea what to expect from it / what it brings.

When a new game comes out, you're not going to ask (some even "demand") that the stuff from the previous game should be upgraded to the new game standards and features let alone for free. Maybe i missed it, but i dont recall seeing such questions arise, when A2 came out, towards the content of A1. OA is sort of a new game...

ArmA 1 and ArmA 2 are different games, they are sequels so nobody expected it.

We expected it because they told us the content would integrate. OA is not a new game, it's exactly what it sounds like. It's an expansion pack that doesn't require the older game.