Maps, flat pack style.

[Inimical_rize 1]

As I've posted over at Steam the same subject/suggestion I'm about to post now, I'd like to hear from the community and the DEVS their thoughts on the maps they produce.

(NOTE: I can't produce maps/mods, I have no skills in either areas)

For the better part the maps are brilliant, no major issues with them and their stunning, how ever they do seem to be just a painting sprawled over a wire mesh with hills and humps and valleys, I want to start seeing more 'Afghan'esk' kind of maps, farmers fields with irrigation ditches, trenches, caves so on and so fourth, yes AI will struggle to manoeuvre in and out of a trench, and yes they probably won't be able to enter/exit caves, but even if you the player could hop in this cave and destroy a weapons cache, it would give the game a bigger and better variety of missions.

As for trenches, there is ways to work around it no doubt, but i believe this would be more effective in multi player, it would give you a chance when assaulting a town, taking cover and basically manoeuvring whilst under a high rate of fire, it would be intense.

[mcarma 19]

And hills and valleys.

[Crierd 24]

And hills and valleys.

There are already hills and valleys.

I agree with you though man, having that kind of terrain would be amazing. I am a bit tired of hiding behind buildings, rocks, half walls (walls made out of s tacks of mud bricks/stones) or trees. Ditches and irrigation pipes that you can crawl under and etc would make missions more interesting for sure.

[Inimical_rize 1]

Possibly another thing for modders is to maybe implement a sort of bipod system on the sides of said trenches.. I.E, Under contact, dive in to a trench, maybe the trench system is implemented into a sand bag bunker, he crawls along to the sand bagged part of the trench, scrolls his middle mouse facing the way he wants to aim and clicks 'Deploy MG/LMG 'Belt fed weapon' He stands up and mounts the weapon to the sand bags, incredible accuracy (as in reality) cover and the ability to 'Break cover (assaulting teams) and advance towards the enemy.

[rübe 127]

Oh yes. Improvements in terrain detail/features is something at the top of my wishlist. Sometimes I wish the crazy procedural terrain from ofp/resistance back, that was tied to the terrain settings. Sure, with it came all sorts of problems (misplaced buildings, groups that couldn't manage to arrive somewhere, ...) but the resulting holes and ditches, the terrain rawness if you will, was awesome. You could always find a spot to hide from fire, just keep prone (infantery fights in hills was simply awesome!) and it also resulted in more terrain unavailable/unpassable for most ground vehicles, which is a very important aspect regarding tactical depth.

Current islands, especially Chernarus, is too flat in too much places, even hills and forest are extremely flat. And that's a pity. The terrain in a forest needs to vary a lot more. More detail, shorter intervals of height-differences, that is ditches and hillocks. In short: unpassable terrain for vehicles.

And of course, someday Arma needs good creeks/streams, believable swaps and so on, which the AI can handle fine.

More detail in terrain equals more tactical depth, which equals bananas!

And who knows, maybe a smaller but more rich island with new terrain features and the needed AI tweaks could be offered as DLC? Maybe. :)

EDIT: something to watch:

http://www.nhdfl.org/library/images/photo-index/DirectorsCut_hemlock_000.jpg (now that's unpassable)

http://www.desktopscenes.com/Scenes%20from%20Muir%20Woods%20%282003%29/The%20Forest%20Goes%20On.jpg (little bridges in forsts. Why not some path's, partially on bridges along very steep terrain?)

http://www.free-slideshow.com/stock-photos/green_mountains/monsters-guarding-mountain-forest.jpg (now this is a landscape feature I like, unapproachable from the front, nice over watch.)

http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/26/05/22/this-is-our-forest-hiking.jpg (lovely - at max kneedeep - streams in forests)

and so on... And as you see, it's really not only eyecandy, but very tactical. But yeah, I'm aware of the engine limits... maybe some shiny day.. :)

Edited July 27, 2010 by ruebe

[Inimical_rize 1]

If you see below, there's a few example of subtle differences that would make the maps more geological.

I had to kind of point out what I meant in this picture, due to the quality it was kind of hard to see.

http://img227.imageshack.us/i/img0891m.jpg/

Below is Kajaki dam, where I was based during my last tour, as you can see it's a complete kill zone in the gully (where the FOB was situated at the bottom) it called for over watch on the peaks, almost a 360 defence if you like

http://img84.imageshack.us/i/hquktf2008270199a1024.jpg/

Below is a the little differences in forests that could happen, yet again things like this would make us want to fit in the forests, nice cover and the ability to move.. If your computer can hack it.

http://img718.imageshack.us/i/chapinforestreservation.jpg/

Below is a picture of me, not because I wanted to show you how good looking I am, just how a sharp drop on the side of a cliff could give a brilliant area for over watch, The mountain has a little path leading from the top about quarter of the way down to a small flat area (where I'm sat) and then a sheer drop.

http://img708.imageshack.us/i/afghan2038.jpg/

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Wouldn't mind dikes and elevated roads many places. When vehicle under attack, at least you have some place to take solid cover. In real life, it wouldn't always be a dike or elevated road, but most of the time I guess there would be something. Dikes and elevated roads amny places would simulate this something.

[no use for a name 0]

Well I think a lot of that depends on terrain resolution; which to my knowledge is pretty high (1m IIRC); but the thing is a lot of that stuff isn't seen/converted from satellite mapping. That means it would probably have to be manually edited to create that terrain; and I'm sure that would take a whole lot of time...

[Devil Dogs SF 13]

If you see below, there's a few example of subtle differences that would make the maps more geological.

I had to kind of point out what I meant in this picture, due to the quality it was kind of hard to see.

http://img227.imageshack.us/i/img0891m.jpg/

Below is Kajaki dam, where I was based during my last tour, as you can see it's a complete kill zone in the gully (where the FOB was situated at the bottom) it called for over watch on the peaks, almost a 360 defence if you like

http://img84.imageshack.us/i/hquktf2008270199a1024.jpg/

Below is a the little differences in forests that could happen, yet again things like this would make us want to fit in the forests, nice cover and the ability to move.. If your computer can hack it.

http://img718.imageshack.us/i/chapinforestreservation.jpg/

Below is a picture of me, not because I wanted to show you how good looking I am, just how a sharp drop on the side of a cliff could give a brilliant area for over watch, The mountain has a little path leading from the top about quarter of the way down to a small flat area (where I'm sat) and then a sheer drop.

http://img708.imageshack.us/i/afghan2038.jpg/

Hopefully we get this in Arma 3. PC's will be able to handle such things by then I'd assume, and I'm sure AI would be more than capable of navigating in such terrain by Arma 3, I hope anyway. :D

[jakerod 254]

You know that there are ditches in OA right? I cant think of the places I saw them though. Near Bastam and Rasman maybe.

[-)rStrangelove 0]

We need dynamic terrain meshes. For a plain desert this could greatly decrease polys and for 'real' ditches / trenches we'd need polys every 15cm.

Sorta like terrain generators work with detail compression to reduce polys.

[b00tsy 28]

Below is Kajaki dam, where I was based during my last tour, as you can see it's a complete kill zone in the gully (where the FOB was situated at the bottom) it called for over watch on the peaks, almost a 360 defence if you like

http://img84.imageshack.us/i/hquktf2008270199a1024.jpg/

something like this is actually there on the takistan map. well not exactly, but a bit similar.

It is at the north of the map, town Shamali.

[Inimical_rize 1]

You know that there are ditches in OA right? I cant think of the places I saw them though. Near Bastam and Rasman maybe.

I know the place you're talking of, i can't remember either, how ever it is good that you pointed it out, but the world (IRL) is full of sudden drops, ruts and basically everything a soldier loves, it needs to be made more apparent on maps, as i've said they are all ready awesome looking maps, really good work on them.

---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 PM ----------

something like this is actually there on the takistan map. well not exactly, but a bit similar.

It is at the north of the map, town Shamali.

Nice, good find! I can't really spend allot of time flying around a map looking for a good area to construct a mission with ect, as i said above it needs to be more frequent though out the maps.

Nice pics.

[b00tsy 28]

Ohh I usually just go in the editor and place a men, look around a bit and then place the men somewhere else to discover nice locations. Some edges of the maps have nice spots if you decorate it a bit.

[Inimical_rize 1]

Yeah that's an easier way to do it, now I'm at home I'll look into creating maps with various ditches ect and see how the A.I can cope with it, it will take ages as I've never done it before but it's worth a shot.