International Politics Thread

I think a thread on this is in order. So anyway, for the uninformed non-Europeans or the ignorant Europeans here's a short intro:

On 10/6-13/6 we have elections for the European Parliament (EP). The EP is the legislative body of the European Union hand has grown more and more powerful over the years. Laws that are passed there are automatically valid in the member states and the number of laws that are passed on an EU level is increasing every year.

Nearly 349 million people will have a chance to vote for the new 732-member parliament, making it the largest transnational democratic election ever held.

The European parliament has a big influence on the lives of citizens in EU member states, whether they realise it or not. EU laws apply in all member states, and most laws passed by national parliaments are drafted in response to European directives (framework laws that have to be transposed into national law within a certain timescale).

As the European parliament has the power to amend or reject most proposed EU legislation, it is often argued that members of the European Parliament (MEPs) have more real power than members of national parliaments. Even if you think your country should withdraw from the EU, there is likely to be a party you can vote for which represents your point of view.

Examples of recent EU laws:

[*]Working time directive. This introduces limits on the hours employees can be made to work, and regulates rest periods, annual leave and night work. From August 2004 it applies to junior doctors.

[*]Cosmetics directive. This regulates what industry can do to test cosmetics on animals, and bans animal testing of cosmetics after 2009.

[*]Takeovers directive. This establishes standard EU rules on takeover bids, and restricts the tactics companies can use to avoid foreign takeovers.

[*]GM food regulation: This governs the amount of GM products allowed in food and the labelling required to alert the consumer.

[*] Flight records personal integrity records: Regarding Washington's request for personal data on passengers flying to the US. MEPs have insisted that EU data protection rules must not be violated.

So this is an important election!

So, who can you vote for then?

This is a bit more tricky to answer. Each country has a number of representatives, depending on the size of the country. Each country elects those representatives through a democratic vote. Now, the tricky part is that you vote on three different level:

1) Personal election - the candidates generally have some form of agenda of their own and positions on certain issues.

2) National party affiliation - generally the candidates belong to a national party that has an agenda

3) European party (aka group) affiliation - the candidates generally belong to an European party as well.

This requires some reading up to make the selection that fits you as the three different levels may be contradictory! You might like what the candidate's European Party stands for, but not what the national party does. A good thing is that all of that information is readily available on the web.

Here's a list of the current parties:

Quote[/b] ]

PPE-DE Group of the European People's Party (Christian Democrats) and European Democrats

[ http://www.epp-ed.org/ ]

PSE Group of the Party of European Socialists

[ http://www.socialistgroup.org/ ]

ELDR Group of the European Liberal, Democrat and Reform Party

http://eld.europarl.eu.int/

Verts/ALE Group of the Greens/European Free Alliance

[ http://www.greens-efa.org/ ]

GUE/NGL Confederal Group of the European United Left/Nordic Green Left

[ http://www.europarl.eu.int/gue/ ]

UEN Union for Europe of the Nations Group

[ http://www.europarl.eu.int/uen/ ]

EDD Group for a Europe of Democracies and Diversities

[ http://www.europarl.eu.int/edd/default.htm ]

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That's enough as an intro. Personally I'll be voting for the liberal party (ELDR) on european level. That means folkpartiet on a Swedish national level. I was actually going to vote for another party, Moderaterna, but after discovering that they were in the Christian democrat group in the EP, I quickly removed them from my list. The thing I actually want is a federalist, but unfortunately we have none of those in Sweden So I'm picking in the usual manner the candidate whose opinions offend me the least.

Here in Sweden at least, the information about the elections have been terrible and we're probably going to see a low turnout. I hope that we at least here on the forum can get some form of debate going, as these elections really are important. It would be embarrasing to see that Europeans take more interest in American politics than in their own.. So prove me wrong and debate!  

Oh, and a note to the Euro-sceptics: this election is the more important for you. You can't complain about how the EU is undemocratic and then not use your vote. Even if you have everything that the EU stands for, I can guarantee that you can find MEP candidates that share your point of view.

So regardless of your position, VOTE!

I don't like what EU is becomming. I would rather see more global commitment instead of building up this european fortress. Sure the world could need someone to counter USA but two wrongs doesn't make it right.

I'll propably vote left.

Too bad there seem to be nothing but overly sceptic "änkyrä"-candidates or overly neoliberal ones. Still searching for one that does not fit in either category.

First time voting BTW.

Quote[/b] ]I don't like what EU is becomming. I would rather see more global commitment instead of building up this european fortress. Sure the world could need someone to counter USA but two wrongs doesn't make it right.

You cannot stop us because we own your asses *evil laugh*

Too bad there seem to be nothing but overly sceptic "änkyrä"-candidates or overly neoliberal ones. Still searching for one that does not fit in either category.

First time voting BTW.

First time I voted was also for finland in the EU parliament elections.

I don't like what EU is becomming. I would rather see more global commitment instead of building up this european fortress. Sure the world could need someone to counter USA but two wrongs doesn't make it right.

I don't think the EU should mimic the US at all. I support federalism as a form of government, but that's just the form, it does not refer to the substance. And there are huge differences in ideology between the US and the EU. Europe does not have the military ambition. Very few seriously want the EU to be a military superpower. Europe instead stands very firm on international cooperation and the use of diplomacy over force. Moreover this is not just a political base, but it has very firm support in the population.

It is a serious competitor to the US on the economic market, which I fully support. From that people world-wide benefit.

From a stability point of view the EU is a wonderful creation. We're talking about a peaceful union of Europe that has more or less never had any peace in the last 2,000 years. And unlike the American ideology of "lead by intervention" it is in a position of rather "leading by example". The economic power guarantees that the EU has a serious voice in world politics.

Quote[/b] ]I'll propably vote left.

I could never do that, here in Sweden. I don't see the point of electing a destructive element into the parliament. They want Sweden to withdraw from the EU - something on which the EP does not have a say on. Therefor their participation can only be obstructive. They're not interested into forming something positive, they just want to quit. Furthermore even if you disregard their EU position, their ideology is outdated. Social protection is no longer an issue in Europe. It was 100 years ago when the socialist movements first started up, but not today. All EU countries have extensive social protection - there are many EU laws protecting the rights of employees etc What the left is advocating already exists and nobody serious wants to change. Their agenda is as pointless as if there was a party that advocated the right for women to vote. It already exists and nobody wants to change it.

I'm voting liberal because that has always basically been my political position. What I think is important that the EP holds firm on are individual rights and liberties. I do not want shit like the PATRIOT act here etc

Yes, the laws regarding employer / employee relations are already implemented and working just fine in most cases. The only problem there aren't enough employees to benefit from this, and the real problem with electing a left-wing or scocialist government is that they don't seem terribly focused on creating jobs. Atleast not here in Sweden, I don't know how it looks on an inter-European level. But I imagine it is about the same, with alot of money being spent on scocial subsidies and unemployment pay.

Right now you can make it just fine when out of work for a long time, sometimes you can even make more money by being unemployed. Which is really what is making me contemplate on where to put my vote in the upcoming parliament vote here in Sweden. And ofcourse the thing I am trying to tell my parents right now, both hardcore scocial democrats. Not too different from me, but I want to see more jobs created both here in Sweden and all across Europe.

I don't like what EU is becomming. I would rather see more global commitment instead of building up this european fortress. Sure the world could need someone to counter USA but two wrongs doesn't make it right.

I don't think the EU should mimic the US at all. I support federalism as a form of government, but that's just the form, it does not refer to the substance. And there are huge differences in ideology between the US and the EU. Europe does not have the military ambition. Very few seriously want the EU to be a military superpower. Europe instead stands very firm on international cooperation and the use of diplomacy over force. Moreover this is not just a political base, but it has very firm support in the population.

It is a serious competitor to the US on the economic market, which I fully support. From that people world-wide benefit.

From a stability point of view the EU is a wonderful creation. We're talking about a peaceful union of Europe that has more or less never had any peace in the last 2,000 years. And unlike the American ideology of "lead by intervention" it is in a position of rather "leading by example". The economic power guarantees that the EU has a serious voice in world politics.

Sure there are many great things about the EU but I don't think we should focus on building a strong european market by shutting out the developing countries. In EU the wellfare of the union comes first. I would rather see all the agricultural aid go to africa etc. so we can establish fair trade agreements with them which will help them develop.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]I'll propably vote left.

I could never do that, here in Sweden. I don't see the point of electing a destructive element into the parliament. They want Sweden to withdraw from the EU - something on which the EP does not have a say on. Therefor their participation can only be obstructive. They're not interested into forming something positive, they just want to quit. Furthermore even if you disregard their EU position, their ideology is outdated. Social protection is no longer an issue in Europe. It was 100 years ago when the socialist movements first started up, but not today. All EU countries have extensive social protection - there are many EU laws protecting the rights of employees etc What the left is advocating already exists and nobody serious wants to change. Their agenda is as pointless as if there was a party that advocated the right for women to vote. It already exists and nobody wants to change it.

I'm voting liberal because that has always basically been my political position. What I think is important that the EP holds firm on are individual rights and liberties. I do not want shit like the PATRIOT act here etc

Sometimes a good thing to do when you dont like what you see is to leave to show your dislike when you really can't change the situation. Sure Europe has good human rights etc. but I dont want us to focus on Europe. I want us to strive for global human rights. In EU that is not the main goal with the union.

The EU can be built into whatever Europeans want it to be. It's work in progress. Running away now doesn't solve anything. Do you think that Sweden with its 8 million people can do anything about unfair globalization? Or do you think that the EU with 400 million and the largest economic market has a better chance?

The views you are mentioning are shared by several European parties. Here's the ELDR (liberals) agenda. See anything you recognize or like?

Quote[/b] ]

Political Priorities of the ELDR Group in the European Parliament 2004-2009

Freeing Europe's potential is the political priority of European Liberal Democrat MEPs. Europe is changing, reuniting, as part of a global community facing new challenges. We are committed to unlocking the potential of our Union, by building on the fundamental liberal principles of freedom, democracy, the rule of law, respect for human rights, free enterprise and equal opportunities.

First, by opening up and democratising the institutions of the European Union. We arecommitted to a genuine parliamentary democracy at European level, where the composition of the Commission reflects the votes cast at European elections and where Member States and MEPs legislate jointly, openly and democratically.

Second, by working for a Union that respects our diverse cultural and linguistic identities and is open to all European nations which comply with the criteria for membership, without discrimination. No acceding country should be held back by second class membership.

Third, by reforming Europe's economy to secure a stable and competitive climate for businesses to invest in innovation and create jobs, and a real single market offering greater choice and lower prices. We are committed to liberalised markets policed by strong and independent regulators, and an employment policy that enhances labour market flexibility and mobility to get people into jobs while ensuring minimum standards for the health and safety of workers.

Fourth, by guaranteeing the fundamental rights of all European citizens and removing all forms of discrimination. In our common fight against international crime and terrorism, we will always remain vigilant against any erosion of personal freedom. A Europe of security and justice for all is also a Europe that extends these rights to those who justly seek asylum or a new life here.

Fifth, by ensuring value for money for taxpayers, rooting out fraud wherever it is found, tackling unnecessary bureaucracy and making the Union's institutions more open, accessible and accountable to citizens.

Sixth, by ensuring a full recognition of the role of European regions, particularly those with legislative powers, and by building a structural policy which develops the potential of Europe's most needy regions.

Seventh, by making Europe the world leader in environmental protection. This means seekingcommon solutions to our common environmental and public health problems. Europe must commit to cleaner, safer forms of energy and embrace renewable resource use.

Eighth, by making globalisation work for everyone. Europe must promote sustainable development through a targeted aid policy and by opening its own markets through the multilateral trading system to help the world's poorest nations escape the poverty trap.

Ninth, by reforming the Union's Common Agricultural Policy so that Europe's farmers produce to meet demand, not subsidies, and are supported in their role as stewards of Europe's rural and ecological heritage and as guarantors of animal welfare and safe and healthy food.

Tenth, by ensuring that Europe speaks with one voice in world affairs; by engagement and dialogue in a multilateral approach wherever possible, but using legitimate force where necessary, so as to create a more just and stable world.

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Quote[/b] ]In EU the wellfare of the union comes first.

Of course it does, anything else would be suicidal. In Sweden the welfare of Swedes, not Canadians comes first. Your personal wellfare comes before the wellfare of some starving kid in Africa. Or are you saying that you are giving up all your money and possessions to other people? The question is what you do beyond taking care of yourself. And at that Europe excells. It is by far the biggest aid contributor in the world. Sure there are fucked up things like the Common Agricultural Policy but that's why you vote for people that want to reform it. You don't go running away from reality.

Have fun. I hope your elections aren't going to be as botched as ours.

And out of curiosity, why the 20-day voting period? Do all countries get to vote at the same time or are there rolling ballots (Sweden one day, Germany the next, etc.)?

And out of curiosity, why the 20-day voting period? Do all countries get to vote at the same time or are there rolling ballots (Sweden one day, Germany the next, etc.)?

20 day? Three day, excluding postal votes. 10-13 june. And honestly, I don't know why it is that way. I suppose it has to do with traditions in different member states on which week day elections are held. Here in Sweden it's on 13/6.

Quote[/b] ]The next European elections will be held in 2004, beginning on Thursday 10 June and ending on Sunday 13 June. Election day in the Netherlands and Great Britain is Thursday, in Ireland Friday, in the Czech Republic Friday and Saturday, in Latvia and Malta Saturday, in Italy Saturday and Sunday and in the remaining Member States Sunday.

If you pay for the trip I'll vote for your party Denoir.

If you pay for the trip I'll vote for your party Denoir.  

Vote by snail-mail instead, much more cost effecient for Denoir

And out of curiosity, why the 20-day voting period? Do all countries get to vote at the same time or are there rolling ballots (Sweden one day, Germany the next, etc.)?

You can either vote in the pre-emptive election (02.06.2004 - 08.06.2004) or during the actual day (13.06.2004), dont know how it goes in other EU countries.

In Germany it's 13/6, too (traditionally they are always on sundays). Beside this, we have also communal(?) elections in Stuttgart, so I have to vote twice.

But I have to admit that I won't vote for any of the available parties, nevertheless I'm gonna vote. Traditionally I am voting liberal, but I don't trust any parties in Germany anymore. The same goes for my girl-friend, but I'm trying to convince her to make a null vote like me.

I can understand that, but you have to think about two things.

1) You're not voting for a German party. You are voting for an EU party. Now the candidate may be a member of a German party, but that's not at all decisive in the votes. The votes are generally made in union on the EP level. They have party "whips" that make sure that the members of a European party vote the same way. So while the German party in question may be untrustworthy and the candidate might be a idiot, in the end the vote is cast on a European party level.

2) Imagine the worst possible moron with a right to vote. By null voting you are doubling that moron's power.

So generally a good guidline in voting is to choose the party/candidate that you are least disgusted with. If nothing else it's damage control through moderation.

I was reading it 10-30 June. God, I'm getting old.

Here they expected such a low turn out, that they bumped the local council elections back a week to co-incide with the European. Hopefully that should improve turnout.

I was reading it 10-30 June. God, I'm getting old.  

I am sure too that it said 10-30 first but he had changed it long before you decided to post about the 20 days..

2) Imagine the worst possible moron with a right to vote. By null voting you are doubling that moron's power.

I always though that there is a difference between "null voting" and "not voting":

If you don't vote, then your vote is not counted and therefore the moron's vote is "doubled".

If you null vote, your vote is counted, but not given to any politician/party and therefore it's not doubling the moron's power.

I hope you can confirm this because this was the reason why I wanted to null vote.

But the point is, there is not a 'Null Party', so the party that the moron votes for is the one that actually comes to power...

I hope you can confirm this because this was the reason why I wanted to null vote.

Nope, a "null" vote is the same as an invalid vote, which is not counted. They usually keep track on how many null votes there are, but they are not including it in the count. So a null vote has exactly the same effect as staying home. The only difference is that you can tell yourself that you are doing it out of protest rather than lazyness. Officially however they are the same thing.

people should definetly vote, also if you don't like the EU cause its probably going to stay around for a while at least

personaly im going to vote for a centre party ,cause bote sides(right and left) are right but in a certain amount.

you need a good economy to properly support the less fortuned and have prosperus(?) lifes (with computers for ofp)

but you should still help the people with less abilities

. also its the least crappy party in my country the Netherlands (D66) .

well thats my opinion anyway

1) You're not voting for a German party. You are voting for an EU party. Now the candidate may be a member of a German party, but that's not at all decisive in the votes. The votes are generally made in union on the EP level. They have party "whips" that make sure that the members of a European party vote the same way. So while the German party in question may be untrustworthy and the candidate might be a idiot, in the end the vote is cast on a European party level.

No you don't, I looked through all the voting ballots they gave us, and its German candidates for German parties.

Theres also a small blue one with Germans (in German parties) for the European parliament.

In other words, its a load of crap. Its the EU, I am an EU member citizen, I should be able to vote for MY people from anywhere in the Union.