Absolute Stupidity...

How can it be possible for a suspect known to be pedophile, to end up working 3 years long in a Children-Daycare, with the man having made 33 known victims, and suspected to be personally accounted rising as far up as 50 total, on that pedophilic moron alone!?

Turned out to be that the said Daycare-center knew what was going on aswell, as direction staff had resigned, and a fellow co-worker admitted guilt on sexually abusing young children from age of 0 to 4 years old!

Even a nationally operating Buscompany has been found compromised, by having one of the two main-suspects being bus-driver, and using the Buscompany's server private parts reserved for drivers to have a little personal space, being filled with pedo-porn pictures shot by the man, including pictures of the crown-suspect (most main suspect)

Let it be very clear to all: That even if Holland is known to be weirdly tolerant when it comes to sexual related issues, ánd drugs aswell, both which are highly critizised in the international world, disapproving of our government legalizing much of it: Many people are downright enraged crying out for severe punishments to those found guilty by Court Of Law, and much want the Pedo's balls cut off, to rid them of ever having a lust-drive raping a child ever again!

Personally I blame the government for allowing way too much, up to even legalizing a damn Pedo-club called Martijn (first name Martin in english translation.)

Those bearing the first name Martin in Holland, or Martijn in dutch, have become victims of these pedophile's actions aswell. Especially now that it has been in the news so massively, with people bombarded with one case after the other. I want to see this misery stop dead in its tracks: No longer any toleration of Pedophiles, nomore victimization of them, who do their dirty deeds, as it is not only criminal, but utterly destructive for the children lateron in their lifes.. Those criminal pedo's should pay dearly for that, and surely have their balls removed live without any sedation! Only then will they feel the pain they bring about onto the parents, onto the familymembers of those child victims, and not the least onto the child itself!

Nobody should be allowed to get away with destroying a life, especially not an innocent child's life! I may be dutch, and I am not alone when I say: I do NOT support this policy which supports such organisations to exicst, or such individuals to dwell around, scarring society as they go, and hurt, freighten and anger so many people, with the Justice-System failing so hard.. This has been straw number million+many. How much longer do the citizens of the Netherlands need to cry out for harder measures put in place against criminal acts??? Too much has been damaged, too much has been destroyed, and if the Law doesn't provide the appropriate punishments, that satisfies the victims left behind well enough, then Law is NOT to be taken serious anylonger, and Law WILL be laughed at by many, ending up in even worse, and more crimes to be commited..

This madness has to stop!! I am not proud to call myself a Dutch inhabitant, I am not proud to live under the Dutch Flag due to this mass-stupidity in legalized insitutions being accepted like this. Why does it always come down on symptom-reacting in politics?? Wasn't ruling heeding future consequenses aswell?? Right now, all that is done is acting upon past action gone along. Thas has been the case for the last 50 years!!

I can fully understand why the Dark Ages had their ways of dealing severly with crimes like they did. Perhaps not just in many cases, but appropriatly adapted to our time, and with approvement of the Justice Grand Jury, the people should be allowed to witness criminal sentence to be carried out on market square!

To begin with criminal thieves being locked in a pole on market-square, and having thrown rotten eggs and larger pebbles towards them for good measure! Everybody should know who the culprit was, and everybody should be able to deal out the punishment to those committing criminal acts.

It is a society belonging to all who can adhere to the law, and law is people, and not some judges being the law themselves, being so stupidly forgiving, neglecting victims their feelings because of it. Victims left behind with distrust in Justice system, due to judges passing out too low sentences, as they have done so for the past 40 years within Dutch national territories regarding the European Continental part of it!

If NO law is being adapted to be carried out in heavier less forgiving sentences for those proven guilty, I do fear an absolute civil uprise with quite alot of dead spread on the streets nationwide!

This case is a case of double face: A perfect oppertunity for politicians to see to it, that things get out of hand on purpose, and make sure angry people backup their terribly heavy new laws taking that for granted. And on the other hand, if not correctly dealt with, by having victims advicing on what sentence to carry out onto the guilty-proven culprit, then slowly but surely I do foresee an all-out Dutch Civil War, able to break out anytime soon. And at best 10 years from now!

As always: I really do prefer to play wargames on the computer, over reality anyday! But justice has to make sure, of people finding justice in the system, by having it served on those who try to cross the line so severely!

Murder should be dealt with, having culprits locked up atleast 30 years, in cells of 20 persons full. Why have television, why have abbility to call hookers, why have access to newspapers?? It is NOT a damn hotel, its a prison, and not meant to be a nice place to stay at!

Heck even elderly people are left to rot in their own 24-hours diapers, whilst having rebuild the nation from scratch after the 2nd World War had ended! And thát is the way to thank them, pampering the culprits, and leave them to rot and die in their own feaces??? I don't want to be an inhabitant of this damn nation no more, if things continue on like this! Yet I have no money to spare to leave the nation, and I see things go for the worse every single day.

Wall of text hits you for 13 damage. You fainted.

Faint? Hah, I didn't faint, it's more like I am dying in my blood gushing out of my ears from anger, and puke that came out out, due to my nausea of late over all this madness!

And as for correct spelling, I cannot care for any of such right now. I just wanted to get this known, as I do feel ashamed of what is happening in a country I call my home.. Litterally, I do see it all rolling downhill, year after year.. The positive side is tremendously outweighed by the negative side, partly because of the media, focussing on negative news so much..

Oh and Nemesis, before you try making a funny joke about such ever again, mind you that I talk from first-hand experience as being the step-brother of a handicapped boy, who was sexually assaulted by a busdriver, who drove them to gymnastics, and back again to the ZMLK school!! I KNOW what damage has been caused by such loose-hand moron selfish sexually frustrated fucks!! I could not even give him a brother-hug like I did before when I said goodnight with mom besides me! Can you imagine that, if somebody pulls of a stupid joke, trying to whip up some light air onto the matter, when YOUR own ultra-vulnerable (and ofcourse unwilling!) familymember/brother has been involuntarily arse banged by a pedo moron?? Take your time to think about that for a second, and let's see if you would find that funny, if I made same such comment if you were me..

FPDR

I agree with Nemesis. I would have been a lot happier today if I didn't see this thread...

Seriously, why post this here? Not appropriate even for OT.

I doubt many people will post here since there is really no way any person not bound by the "tolerance" rule could possibly be kind to a repeateded pedo offender.

You make many good points especially in the case of neutering and mob justice, it's nice that the law goes to protect people but when proven guilty and pending on their crime, they really should just hand that person over to the masses and let the public decide what to do.

I am not going to stay and look on from the sidelines, and I am downright refusing to hush, and keep my mouth shut about it! I do not care if anybody else's stomach turned upside down, I do care for the future of children, the future of familymembers and relatives turned upside down, I do care for those who have seen their children change for the worse because of such!

Should everybody keep their mouth shut, in order to silently agree with the culprits proven guilty by law?! Yes, by judge of law, and a result turn those over to the masses for punishment as they see fit! Takes alot of frustration out of society when they start doing that again! You cannot expect to play god all on your own, whilst not listening to the hopes and prayers of your subjects, now isn't that so? If you will replace the words God and subjects by Judge/Judicial High Court and inhabitants of any nation mentioned.

Now I am no advocate of bearing arms able to kill a person, but I am very much pro an eased self-defence allowing law-policy change. When it is proven to be culprit's own doing that is cause of harm done to culprit, by example of culprit deciding to break into a random house, and is attacked by guard dog: No longer shoot the dog, and no longer fine the owner, or even jail the dog's owner for having the dog defend the property. Neither should the owner be tried in court for lawfully adhering to the code of self-defence, having done everything possible to make burglar go away, before using any means of violence neccessary! Even if that means death to burglar, it's the burglar who made the call to break in, and as such deciding to take the gamble and thus taking risks of death in the first place! If met with a gun in sight, or aimed at you, why not shove the aimed gun away if you can, and are swift enough, and start beating the crap out of that culprit when you can?? IS it wrong to defend those in need, including yourself if assaulted by anybody? Is it wrong to intervene a pedophile his lust, depriving him of his child-victim by beating the guts out of his body for good appetizer?? Is it wrong to be willing to help a child in need, or for that matter ANYBODY in need, who is being attacked, not only standing by idly and film the scene as it happens, furthering the suffering, but also actually approaching en-masse with a crowd gathered as possible, and hand over the culprit to police after crowd is done with him?? If you object to it, how morally sane are you, when you're willing to have your own child being selectively targeted by a pedophile to rape the guts out of your kid's rear, and have his mouth filled with genitals?? Because that is what a pedophile does to children, it always starts subtle and nearly unnoticed, and they keep on pushing the boundaries further and further, every time a little bit again, until they hold full control over the poor victim!

Now I am for mob-justice when it is the law that said the culprit to be proven guilty, but I do want an adaptation of the law. Not only does a normal Court of Law take such into process, but also a High Court of Law aswell, just to make sure nothing has been falsesly accused, and ended up in the death due to judicial mess-up. But: IF proven guilty several times over, make that 4 including objection procedures asked and lost twice, first at normal Court of Law, then at High Court of Law aswell, why not handing the crapface over to the crowd, and have the victims and those left behind have the final say on what to do with that dirty creep? That'll scare them for sure!

Alternatively, those reckoning themselves to have pedophilic tendencies within their vains, should be made easy to have their genitals removed in a professional way. It is known to be the same with pet-animals as I said earlier on to relatives of mine: Take tomcats for example: Them cats are mammals just like we humans are, and allthough slightly different due to diet difference, much of the inner-system is all the same in general. Cats (males) spray urine to mark territory, and conceive little kittens, if not kept inside at all times, away from female-cats, and end up having your house stink to cat-pee everyday.. Solution: having their testicles removed, by completely being cut away by a veterinarian. They no longer spray, they no longer have drive to coceive little cats anymore as result..

All the same with humans, thát might be radical, but it is proven to take away sexual lust in pedophile programmed brains. Thus it leads up to voluntarily give up your pedophile tendency to want sex with children, remove your balls in a professional healthy manner including sedation, and end up leading an non-sexual normal life just like everybody else who doesn't hurt children do! Radical problem like Pedophilia needs radical solution aswell! I do not merely complain here, I do want solutions to be brought forward, and I want this tabboo to be broken to million pieces! Keeping such silent is NOT going to stop such from happening, in fact denying this by silently agreeing with this, by NOT speaking out against it publicly, is to be considered as a moral crime! For do NOT expect any help from others, as you haven't done anything to help those in need yourself: What goes around comes eventually around, keep silent, and your child or familymember might suffer the same!

If the world was meant to be oh so nice, why do people play wargames? Why do people interest themselves in war, and have games that simulate war, including virtual pain, and death, and silently enjoy other people's pain in real life, by making stupid jokes about serious situations as a result of overexposing their brains to harsh games? Is that the collateral damage wargames bring about: Hardening society to the extend of ignorance unless it is your own family that has been hit so badly by a nasty event?

As for wargames like ArmA II: I play it just to stay away from becoming violent on the street, to keep my mind away from all the dreadfull news.. But if it happens close in my vicinity within 20 kilometres away, and I happen to know the culprit where he/she resides, I'll hunt him/her down for sure! People forgot they have power in numbers.. There aren't as many bullets as there are people in the world. Culprits simply cannot kill off the entire nation's population, even in war.. They'll end up mad after having killed several hundreds, breaking down completely sooner or later! And I do mean all such killing happening continiously around such killer individual without rest or sleep.

And even if you would brought to bare a SMG, a sniperrifle, or a machinegun for that matter, no way you would stay around whilst an hostile crowd tries to encircle you, catching you surrounded, and kicking you down from behind, eventually killing you off.. You may go down with many death victims with you, but you will not last such incident alive!! Thát is the power numbers have, if only people would be brave enough to endure such collective loss like that..

If exposed to violence and non-justice long enough, people don't care for criminals rights no more. People all want peace, all want to see violence put to definitive end. Nobody is born a warrior, nobody is born with blind hatred. It is society that makes them or breaks them, as they made their choices bad or good. But every choice is a choice made with a sound sane mind in most cases! And those not capable of doing so, should be kept out of harms way, even if that means more surveillance measures taken, like severe screenings at job-appliances. and certainly protection in physical form of having a screened volunteer guarding the door on the outside, with licence to hurt and kill culprits raping children or robbing elderly caught on sight! Crime has to be stopped, with punishment equal to that crime, and sentence to be dealt by relatives and/or victims of such incident brought about onto them! Thát alone is true justice!

Too offtopic for OT?

regarding this topic

i think that in our west world morality has died, and those who are pervert , mentally ill, not honest etc. are called almost like usual and have the same right to live

i don't understand why in our countries it is like this , probably cause elites of rich are also pervert, not honest, even cheating own wives like famous politicians, law-makers and lawyers are corrupted (have no conscience but love money, feel no sorrow and pain and sorry for somebody), thats why our european law turns into shit

elites , the rich, actors , lawyers - almost 90% of them have dirty past and thats why they make such law

when in America they hunt for one Polish film director who raped 13 y.o. , in my country and in France some "actors, journalists" are angry and write protests against US, why ? cause they feel no sorrow and they probably have dirty deeds too (bringing shame to my nation when writing protest in case of such guy)

no matter that 80% of society is against something, elites are for :/

when US law hunts such guy for 30 years - i support such US action

yes i also feel sick when i hear about short sentences

in our prisons, for most of criminals, pedophil is not human and they torture such guy or kill him , cause even criminal who was pay-killer care about children (Christian philosophy is : to care about poor and week, who can be more weak than child in front of grown man ??)

i don't understand 4 months sentence which was in England given to guy, who raped 13 y.o. girl (mob later killed that scum, they deserve medal)

i don't understand 2 years sentence for raping child, it should be impaling, if i would get a pedo in my hands in dark street... i would not be telling what i would do :]

equal right to live for honest man who work hard and the same for child-abuser, rapist-killer etc. is something completely unacceptable for me

in our modern west world (which my country get into 20 years ago) some things are for 80% of society unacceptable, pedophile is not human, cannot be treated as human being, cannot have such rights

in prisons they are cut , raped, killed - so in irony of it, criminals are more moral than judges who gave them 1,2 year sentence or less for rape of child

in Arab world they are stoned to death, and hell, they have right for me

but elites who make law - some years ago Police notified press about investigating "child abuse affair which is touching some of the rich and famous politicians" - it says all

people on high chairs have no morality, they have only greed and looking for new kind of fun, cause they feel untouchable , so they create law for perverts like them, cause law is not made by will of people, law is made by lawyers and politicians (in pocket of the rich) , otherwise we would have twice bigger sentences and lawyers would be unemployed (law would be casuistic, strict, short, no need for interpretations)

no i also work in law system (previously police , but lost job, when my mother found big affair of guy who was falsifying signatures, she reported , so she and me lost job, cause "we were dangerous cause notified about serious men falsifying documents" )

in my country founding affair/crime is almost equal with loosing job, not with medal :(

but as i work in legal system i see how law turns to "easy to interpret in both ways" , it is big shame

not important what you have done or what was done to you, but who has expensive advocate and who payed judge to interpret unclear law

it was not like this in the past, it was not , even in communist time it was more clear what is bad and what is good

Hahha yeah that about sums it up..its a very touchy subject though I think it instills anger just about everyone, heck even prisoners don't like pedo's, nobody really does but there is a massive problem with bleeding hearts.

Take for example the court case of a man who broke into a house and killed a family, sued by a relative, his lawyer actually said the juries decision to jail him was unjust because they were swayed by emotion upon hearing how he slaughtered them, when you have soulless and conscienceless bastards like this who would actually defend someone so guilty...well...

many people across the world - no matter socialists , commie, capitalists, right-wing patriots etc. agree on such topic and there is no difference between most of us (although in economy we differ much)

the only who not agree are those bastards you prescribed them - the lawyers

i am working with them, my neighbor work with them (in court) , sometimes chat with them and feeling sick to vomit

they act like there was no good and bad, like all is disputable "burglar ? but maybe he need those money to invest in new car, man , you cannot beat everyone, you are nazi from medival" < those are words of one guy from law-dept. in my office

another man said that "there is no truth and facts, there is good lawyer or sucker"

their philosophy is like they are not humans , "buying stolen goods ? what's the problem, just do it way noone see" "you know something about this guy ? blackmail him" etc.

you have good situation cause you have jury , in my country there is judge (mostly friend of those lawyers) and he/she decides

man beaten wife, wife left home - by court she is guilty for divorce and she pays fee

your dad drunk and left you without money - you are guilty, you had 5 years old but you should care about him and giving him money for beer etc.

i know such decisions - as person who works in legal system (since 2002 i have touch with law, courts , police, legislation of law regulations etc.) and my family and my friends (i know some retired cops)

and topic is delicate cause most of us would ... do something with pedos, but calling for it is against "political correctness"

but topic title is completely misleading

This thread is going to be locked soon, I believe.

In any case what me bugs most is that a lot of countries having all kind of social programms and help for the criminale to recover and being reintegrated into society. But not enough help for the victims of crimes. The law is not the same for everybody if you are powerful and have money you can get away with a lot of things. Our laws are being raped continiously by lawyers, in my opinion one of the worst professions that exists in this world.. I could go on to write but I prefer to leave it at that. There is no f***ing justice in this world.

Kind regards

Well after reading theintroduction I refuse to read this Thread any longer. You Sir need to calm down first before posting on the internet!

(I agree on the cutting of balls Part)

This thread is going to be locked soon, I believe.

In any case what me bugs most is that a lot of countries having all kind of social programms and help for the criminale to recover and being reintegrated into society. But not enough help for the victims of crimes. The law is not the same for everybody if you are powerful and have money you can get away with a lot of things. Our laws are being raped continiously by lawyers, in my opinion one of the worst professions that exists in this world.. I could go on to write but I prefer to leave it at that. There is no f***ing justice in this world.

Kind regards

like they say in Poland - be drunker, you'll get money, flat

be family of drunker - you will have only problems and costs (drunker beats wife, let she and child find another flat on their-own )

example from PL:

mother lost job, father died in car accident - decision of court - because of total poverty put children to orphanage ,

natural mother would get 200 PLN (50 EU) help from state, but orphan professional worker as family (i don't know word in English) foster family will get 1500 PLN from state !

so real mother losts child and much more money is given as help to foster family and by the way "coordinators" have job, lawyers have job (lawyers very big money in my country cause some earn from 8000 to much much more PLN (1 Polish Zloty = 0.25 Euro) but law is nepotism, you became lawyer if you were born in lawyer family and passed exam made by corporation )

another case from another city:

guy killed 13 y.o. girl, tried to kill mother of girl - decision of court "it was hooligan act, happened only once" guy free and "in abeyance"

after 1989 all is f** down, type "killed and free" in Polish ,and google will show many many articles of scum free after killing someone (in Poland some killers do not get any punishment, probably bribes)

reason is one - those who write law - are second least honest part of society (all political scandals with bribes, drugs, speeding, cheating or like one ex senator in Poland - shooting to people ) or those who were free and killed witness in own case (there were cases where court not arrested guy caught for murder under investigation and he killed witness)

but this all came from "western freedom" and philosophy "criminal is the same human being like you"

law is not written by usual honest hard working people, law is written by those who were in rats race ( at any cost and walk over everybody)

Well, sometimes it's better to commit suicide for pedophiles rather than to go to jail. In my country's jails all those who are convicted in pedophilia or child abuse are forced to become passive gays.

I am not going to calm down, because I feel I am rightfully angry about such matter happening to those most innocent: The children of now, being adults of tomorrow.

If faced with such problematic events, those children are more often then not left traumatized. That directly results in less empathy, less compassion feeling any responsibility for fellow humans, or animals, as aggression has been dealt out to those who never touched them harmfully, tracing it back as being a consequence of those who actually did! Why should I close my eyes to that fact, and why should I be polite and politically correct about it, sir??

I despise political correctness, I despise lawyers, and rich criminals should not have access to lawyers, rich criminals do not need lawyers, cause they have often worked on high-level crime games, and knew excactly and consiously what they have done wrong! To free yet another of such criminal, not relevant to what they done, or how worse impact was on those who are left behind, or have damage inflicted to them in any way possible.. Well that just adds up to the world becoming more violent every year as I speak.. Atleast here in my own crowded part of the Netherlands it is..

People simply are not meant to live bundled up together, with half a nation having atleast 500 plus people per square kilometre! Add up alot of troubles, and you can surely sit and wait for unrest and civil war to come.. And those troubles aren't effectively taken care of, other then merely denied excisting to fill the pockets of the most wealthy powerfull people.. Commoners suffer due to it, having laws put against them instead working for them indeed.

If I cannot pay a bill, I have to appear in court, whilst I have to defend myself in court, I am being treated as a criminal already being convicted! But fact is, they keep on telling you "innocent until proven guilty" right? Think again, law is corrupt like madness! Yes if it were to protect the honest, if it was to protect the vulnerable, if it was to take care of the weak, then it would make nothing but pure sense to have punishment at an all time high for those severe crimes dealt onto society..

Is not being able to pay a bill, that annually rises every year a crime, or is not altering the system of greed when in power a crime? Same for pedophiles, they are allowed to do so, if the current system isn't changed for the better... It's not those who intervene and beating up a pedophile to blame, it's the error of the system providing the pedophiles to have their own political correct club, and being politically tolerated that is the problem here!

Pedophiles are monsters, but so are all defending them, standing for everybody hushing them up, and trying to keep peace, and have other suffer in silence and denial of such problems! Not to go into detail about all the wrongs of socalled equality of this jubilated system that is unequal to all trapped in it. If the system was about true equalizing people to other people, the culprit would suffer the same fate as what he/she had done to his/her victim! Murdered a victim in brutal killing-fest? Do the same to culprit by hands of the left behind relatives or angry masses.. Only that will bring rest back into society, again be it if found undeniably and undoubtly guilty by Court of Law, and the High Court. Because those are the institution put in place, said to exicst to save us the trouble, and be about to see for us all to be protected against crime.. In order for me to trust them, they have to start handing out 30 years for robbery with dead victim to start with! If I were the judge of the High Court I would love to deal out 2 hours torture every day, to have the culprit feel the pain, equal to what the family goes through emotionally due to the culprit's madness of taking away a life..

Pedophiles are just like murderers, they also take away a life, and leave it shattered for the rest of their victims lives.. As matter of fact, an adult's man inserting his penis in a premature child, or any under-age child for that matter, is risking to have the child's intestins being mauled to malfunction. I had a collegue who happened to be assraped by his own father, having his ass being unable to properly close completely.. The result was, if the boy was tense, due to constructive critisism by a superior, he would instantly crap his pants, without having any control over himself doing so!! And such things should be denied, and actually be tolerated, having another one marked on the long list of victims yet again??

Oh, and go ahead, please go ahead if you want to close the topic, but the reason why I started it, is to make sure if there was any common sense left in this world, where I do look up to the BI forums as being a happy decent place most of the times, with people who know what they are talking about, being people with sense, being people able to reason properly. And no matter what the problem would be, if not being able to talk about it, being denied to talk about such, is only causing the extend the suffering of all involved, be it victim aswell as suspect or convict for that matter!

Let's pretend if the law WAS altered so, that criminals would end up having higher sentences according to the sheer impact of their crime.. Murder and Pedophilism should count heavier then being made unable to pay a bill ending up in court defending yourself.. A Court of Law should not even deal with people having to defend themselves why they didn't pay the bill on time, etc. It is there to deal with hardline criminals, who commited an attrocious act of horror upon another living being!

But I fear it is a money matter again, and suffering is always morally superior then to end it, and stop the political correctness, and actually DO something about it, pretending it was you, or your child, or relative that had gone through such horrible ordeal of being consiously murdered, raped, or abused otherwise!

Thani - as i said - all by "elites", take a look at propganda - elite do all to rule people, elite push one nation to another nation, private and corporal die, general has medal and owner of company producing rifles has golden water closed

since ancient times, elites lied, cheated, put innocent to wars, breaking rules they stated etc.

if you want understand evil, you must understand greed (source of all evil)

psychopaths (people without conscience) is in society 1-2% (Police data)

but this small minority always push (ambitions) to banks, politics, business, power, army, law

for people psychopath is person "killer from movie" , while for forensic such person is "without conscience" (read book of Dr. Hare with such title )

such person has not only zero conscience, but also can lie to lie detector easy,

such person knows only profit and bank account, not morality, so such person becomes advocate for example

they are not human (at least usual human , cause usual human knows feeling, love, conscience etc.)

for you, for me, for many people here suffering (moral issue) can be superior to profit

for psychopats no, for them superior is bank account and things they poses

thats why they defend monsters in court , that some of them act in Helsinki Human Rights found which fight "for better conditions in prison cell"

in fact in Poland it is sad, that bigger money goes to animal and prison , than for orphans food (daily money prescribed by norms for buying food by institution)

political corectness is also their invention, cause not-normal and perverts want to be treaded like normal human (and because of this "normal" is degregated as term, if "patern/example of normal is man loving woman, not betraying her, keeping promises, not cheating, not drugs using" etc. than degradation of such patern by calling "all is normal, you cannot criticize for life style" comes to situation that there is no good and bad, there is no example what should be man and in consequence falling to "lower barrier of what is evil")

for some people (mostly in politics and business) lie, telling not truth is something usual and not wrong

following such degradation next day you can wake up in bed and i will be claiming that your house is my and noone will be surprised or shocked

when i was becoming civil servant i heard one thing from one high ranked person

"is law and system for people or people are for system and law?

since ancient Egypt, citizens were only property of pharaoh , to work for him and die for him, you have your answer"

people try to build state for nation (themselves) but always there is endless struggle between people and those who wanna be "owners" of people

look at human history

kings owned people, people were property,

than colonialism, slaves

1917 Bolsheviks murdered some evil Tsar (who treated human as things, which we in Poland know the best as being under Tsars from 1791 to 1918)

usual people wanted to rule

what happened next, some of bolsheviks became red-tsars themselves , to rule other and Stalin regime

people in 1989 fought democracy thinking they will built nation , free, the way they want

some years ago appeared that the rich buy politicians , so once again history turns to situation when usual men is to work and obey,

the same history has with morality

in ancient Rome it was moral to kill slave, slave was to be raped it owner wants

in my country there was (in time of kings, nobles) "right of first night" , so owner/noble could take virgin girl for first night etc.

this was "law" , was law moral ? not at all

if king would like to write law about killing anyone who has blue socks, he could , law is not the same as morality

human history shows endless battle between morality and evil

now we still have such battle going on

enemy says that there is no evil in doing evil things , enemy tries to set law without morality

people should stay strong and believe in morality, than no law can make them down, no king will own their mind,

from time to time some kings get beheaded if moment is right, if shortest straw is cut

it is good to hear people who talk about moral issues, not only about money and economy (like some people from west do, when they see no blood and suffering in war, but see raw materials, economy, production etc. )

i hope west europe will not follow this way like now is heading (lower sentences, less things as crime or pervert act, more not clear law that is easy interpretable in both ways guilty/not guilty apart from any material evidence)

This is way, way too offtopic for the offtopic section. :butbut: