New "move" command needed - AI do not move well when in "danger" mode

Posted on the Arma 3 Feedback Tracker *Here*.

As the title says, the AI do not respond well at all to movement commands when they are in danger mode. This has been a nagging issue at least since the first ARMA, and we really need it addressed. It makes the AI an annoying hindrance rather than an asset to be used and enjoyed by the player.

The AI need to put staying in formation with the squad leader above whatever their own "normal instructions" are telling them to do. If I, as squad leader, run across a valley and up a hill, and I have not given an order to do otherwise, and the AI are not in "danger mode", my AI squadmates should KEEP UP. They need to RUN. I should not get to my destination and then have to wait a minute or two for my squad to catch up. If I thought it was necessary to move slowly and carefully, I would have. The AI need to "trust the squad leader" and follow his lead.

When in combat or danger mode, the AI is much, much worse. When in this mode, nothing a squad leader does will cause the AI to MOVE. There are many times when you just want the AI to stop all else that they might be doing and MOVE. For example, let's say you want the squad to quickly move over the crest of a hill to put the hill in between themselves and incoming fire. Instead of quickly moving as commanded to do, they slowly bounding-overwatch-move their way, or flounder about, and get killed. All of them.

As squad leader we need some other type of move command. One that says "no AI, I don't want you to take all day to get there as you slowly go through a 'bounding overwatch' movement resulting in you all getting killed, I want you to DROP EVERYTHING AND MOVE!"

I suggest adding another type of move command. The squad leader should have two different "move" commands to choose from: "Move" and "Tactical Move". Tactical Move would function as our current move command does now, and the command would be given in the same way. The standard "Move" command would just be renamed to "Tactical Move". The new "Move" command, on the other hand, would break the AI out of whatever they are doing and cause them to MOVE VERY QUICKLY to the given destination. There would be no bounding overwatch, no hindrance to their movement at all, even if they take fire. They will treat the "Move" command as life or death, GET TO THIS LOCATION! Once they reach the destination, the AI can then resume their normal behavior as the situation or squad leader dictates.

Both move commands should be shown on the same menu, without requiring Left CTRL or Left Alt to be held to show it in the command menu. This makes it not only easier to use, but also easier for everyone to see it as an option. Simply choose either "Tactical Move" (the Move command we have now, just renamed) or "Move" and left click to issue the command.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Eclipse4349

Thought that if you gave them the careless combat behaviour they would move regardless of the danger they might face when fulfilling such an order.

The AI's look smart, unlike the recent one saring at a wall, when i killed half his team in editor mode.

This has been bugging me as long as Arma 1. The most frustrating situation is: your team (recon, SF, etc) is without an AT capability, you have a contact with an enemy patrol and can hear tanks/IFVs approaching. You neutralize the patrol and would like to get out before the tanks show up, but the AI team is stuck in "combat" mode (until they decide all enemies are in fact neutralized and call "clear") , and will do the slow bounding overwatch. Result, your team can't escape and is wiped out by the tanks.. :( Trying to command Safe -behaviour won't help, they will stay in "combat" as long as they believe a threat exists. Some way to override this would be a good idea, or an option to call "clear" yourself. Also some kind of "break contact" -command would be nice.

Thought that if you gave them the careless combat behaviour they would move regardless of the danger they might face when fulfilling such an order.

Auto Danger overrides it.

The only way I know you can sort of trick the AI to not move from cover to cover is to change formation and then use return to formation.

Some times when you do that they will run strait to their formation position regardless of Auto Danger.

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I too would have like a "Command Only" thing were they only followed orders and ran full sprint to where you wanted them.

Dont think its gonna happen though since I would argue it would already be in Arma 2 if they wanted to focus time on it.

This was a request in Arma2 and was mainly due to the AI not getting into vehicles fast enough and some cover issues when stopping in danger mode. BI did address it later with the beta patches but I think they still saw it as AI being more clever and aware of surroundings until you heard "clear" and they would switch out of that mode.

But as I dont have the alpha, if they are still doing this whats it like getting them into vehicles? Has it regressed from 2? That would be a surprise.

Also a modder (forget who as I type) created a addon that had its own options to evasive move when in danger for Arma2 due to this.

I would say that it might be worth adding this to the official issue/feedback page as a request, becuase I always saw it that under danger setting a new option under the menu should appear called "evasive move" which as I posted months ago in the Arma2 thread about this is what Ghost Recon the original game had called "At all costs". Its for sitations like running like crap away to vehicle & a retreat option. As your the team leader it should be up to you to tell AI to do this and your call if it results in casualties. It should not be anything built into AI to detect, just a team leader human override danger mode sub option.

I find it quite realistic behavior when they are under fire, they are suppressed and therefor can't advance to the 'move' waypoint till they kill some of the bad guys that are in their way. Though in some situations as mentioned above you do wish they would make a run for it on your order! Maybe they can add an extra awareness state 'run&gun' that will make them move at all cost.

This annoying issue came after some A2 beta patch and was defended by something like "soldiers IRL under fire don't follow orders very well, so this is freaking realistic" and have stuck since.

I remember the original Ghost Recon had the move command 'at all cost' which we do need here. Use the command recklessly and it will get your AI killed, but it does have its place when you are caught with your pants down.

Use the command recklessly and it will get your AI killed, but it does have its place when you are caught with your pants down.

Exactly, the team leader should be the one with the best insight on what to do, if you want them to advance at all cost while engaging the enemy they should do it. If you do it wrong and careless you (the AI team) gets punished by that action soon enough and you think better about it the next time.

Start a feedback post and I will up-vote it.

While I don't disagree with another move order. When you are giving the move order, it's for them as a unit, and they are trying to move in formation. Giving them hold fire and individual move orders will get their butts moving.

A new command would essentially be just that.

At risk of getting flamed for just knowing, when CM tried to streamline dragon risings commands for red river, they used a order called "rush". It was basically what I stated above. Moving without formation, hold fire, probably a switched roe while moving too

On second thought maybe let's just leave it be:j:

Edited March 11, 2013 by PlacidPaul

I am just wondering if Auto Danger is related to the target list [Menu 2].

They seem to report clear when its empty. If the list has one guy still in it, but no contact for 2-3min they will still stay in auto danger. Once the guy is found and killed the "clear" comes shortly after.

If there is some way to just reset the target list [Menu 2] it would help the issue allot and might even make one able to use infantry past the first contact in CTI too.

(In CTI you have your squad until they get into contact the first time. Your list fills up with targets that "never" go away and you are stuck with auto danger infantry that takes literary hours to move from town to town even when you spawn replacement for a few, not everyone. Aka, they become useless. Ether they die in first contact or you are forced to kill em off and replace them all to get them out of auto danger because a spotted enemy got away.)

Start a feedback post and I will up-vote it.

I actually did that before posting it here :)

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=3920

Up-voted that issue on the tracker. It's always been a frustration in the Arma series watching your squadmates doing their incredibly slow bounding cover & overwatch while moving to cover and being torn apart by rifle fire. While there's been a lot of improvement to AI regarding combat, it would be great to see this fix added.

I couldn't agree more with the OP!

This is a "feature issue" which is absolutely frustrating when you need to get your team out of a location quickly and your team mates RUNNING, not taking care!