Immersion, propaganda and a clean story.

[LJF 0]

I've been trying to think of why the series has always felt fake to me in terms of the story and setting.

They all feel like propaganda (I know they're not and I'm not saying they are, hear me out here): they all present a sanitized, watered down and "clean" version of war. Instead of unrest, a little racism, religious tensions, violence, oil, politics and a whole host of other stuff all Arrowhead shows us is a bad guy with WMD's getting taken out by the good guys with some equipment that the army will never use. There's no flavour, it's like eating two pieces of plain bread: it looks like a sandwich on the outside, but sure doesn't taste like one.

They've always felt like this thing really happened but I was playing the "edited", "public" version of it, as though the US military/someone else etc came along and "fixed" everything, took out all that stuff that might make them/others look bad. It's as though I'm reading a book where every second paragraph has been removed.

Generation Kill did the best job of handling such these sort of issues I've ever seen. It never shoved anything down your throat, yet it was always there in the background, it gave it atmosphere, believability and above all, rooted it in the real world. The "Armaverse" seems to be getting further and further away from reality to me.

I can't help but feel detached and isolated from all the characters and story in ArmA1 through Arrowhead, and pretty much the entire universe. Anyhow, just my thoughts, what do you all think?

[maddogx 13]

Yeah, the stock campaigns in BIS titles generally aren't too amazing. But then again, they are really only examples of what can be done with the game. Custom missions/campaigns, addons, the editor and multiplayer is where the real fun is to be had.

I don't really see why people get so hung up about such a minor aspect of the game experience.

[LJF 0]

Well I only ever really use the editor to be honest, but I find that these things bleed over into that as well. I'd rather they model Afghanistan than make up Takistan - or even call it "something province" in Afghanistan, suspension of disbelief. Just as I'd rather they had Islamic prayer, in the villages (even if they went to the mosque, which I don't think they do). It'd be good to hear derogatory curses from each side during combat/idle talk as well (where appropriate lest it end up seeming like a gang battle - see Vegas 2 - If only to liven up the AI. I don't know, the atmosphere just feels a bit barren to me, always has really, I don't mean the environmental atmosphere or even the immersion, both great, but the overall universe immersion is sorely lacking.

[zoog 18]

Yeah, the stock campaigns in BIS titles generally aren't too amazing. But then again, they are really only examples of what can be done with the game. Custom missions/campaigns, addons, the editor and multiplayer is where the real fun is to be had.

I don't really see why people get so hung up about such a minor aspect of the game experience.

Well, because 80-90% of new users will buy it and start playing the SP campaign first to have a look at what they bought. When it isn't very good there is a big chance that they ditch the game or get to a grinding halt trying to join servers which 95% of the time run addons and stuff.

So basically you're losing a lot of players when people are not grabbed the first time due to problems in the campaign/storyline. I think that's a real problem.

I understand the argument that the real stuff is online or in the editor, but not everybody plays online, understand those things / addons. Enough people just want a nice story to play.

[Guest]

Cold War Crisis was in my opinion, perfection.

I used to love it when your soldiers would shout:

"Eat led commie scum!

Epic days! :D

[Takko 10]

I don't know why you get so hung up over this.

You can also be evil by shooting civilians and they will turn against you, its your

choice!

[katipo66 94]

Well i agree with the OP, i haven't played OA yet, and i only played about a quarter of the arma2 campaign, mainly because i couldnt connect to the story or my character? not in a mafia, gta way... i guess its a case of you cant have your cake and eat it to.

As for the editor! i downloaded the OA Demo today, straight into the editor to see what the town generator is all about.... magic! awesome stuff there, i hope they decide to develop the editor even more...

[jakerod 254]

As for the editor! i downloaded the OA Demo today, straight into the editor to see what the town generator is all about.... magic! awesome stuff there, i hope they decide to develop the editor even more...

I wouldn't get your hopes up on that. The editor has been pretty much the same since OFP. They added the modules button and the library type thing into it but that is pretty much it. Oh, they also added in the year. But there is that nice 3d editor. Although I find the editor quite suitable for most things. I wish there was some kind of inventory screen and character screen but I can do without I guess.

EDIT: Forgot they also added the show textures button and show ID buttons.

[WhoCares 0]

... it's like eating two pieces of plain bread: it looks like a sandwich on the outside, but sure doesn't taste like one.

...

First of all, you described a perfect Wish Sandwich! :D

You know people, the other day I had a wish sandwich. O yeah, yeah. A wish sandwich is the kind of a sandwich, where you do have two slices of bread and you sincerely wish you had some meat...

To add some meat (please note the subtle transition), there is actually more in it then you probably seen at the first sight. If you look at the backstory of OA you will see that it is primarily the oil and only in a later stage the WMD that lead up to the conflict.

Around ArmA2 they build quite some politics with the Russians. In both it is up to you whether you befriend or alienate the locals.

Regarding the weapons available, you can't blame BIS for the Army decision to cancel some projects a week before OA release. And then it is the Armaverse were the Amry might well have taken the opposite decision - but that's propebly exactly your problem of diversion between Armaverse and the real world...

Regarding the violance, you get mass graves, wounded people screaming, and more stuff like that. But since OFP it was never BIS business to "expand" in hollywood style gore and dismemberment and it has always been clearly stated like that. And I guess for most of us regulars it is just fine that way.

[andromedagalaxe 10]

did you know mujahideen have been known to rape and torture enemy combatants they capture? How about a script for that and one for beheadings?

Obviously this is sarcasm. It's a game, not a realpolitik simulator.

[Wolfrug 0]

I actually thought the Harvest Red campaign was pretty neat, and not at all simple. Likewise, without the fudging they did for the American version of the ArmA campaign (made the good guys the good guys instead of the bad guys), that one also had a lot more depth to it than what it looked like on the surface. In fact, I'd say BIS is pretty good at adding subtle commentary and criticism to their campaign. That said, I haven't played Arrowhead yet, so I can't really comment, but I'll return to it once I have.

As a PS, I don't mind that they don't get down to the real nitty-gritty with their official campaigns - unlike certain other games, the campaign is just a minor part of the whole, and others, who don't have to worry about selling copies and making a living, can then go ahead and make the really juicy, controversial stuff :)

Regards,

Wolfrug

[Grizzle 0]

I know everyone is different, by why does there have to be a believable and realistic "story" to go with this game? It's not an RPG, MMO or anything of the sort. It's not a world politics/war simulator, it's a military battle sim. It's about blowing stuff up and killing virtual bad guys.

I can only imagine this comes about from that certain genre of game where you spend most of your time watching cut scenes and participating in a virtual story and very little time actually playing. Games shouldn't try to be books or movies just like books and movies don't try to be games.

[jakerod 254]

I know everyone is different, by why does there have to be a believable and realistic "story" to go with this game? It's not an RPG, MMO or anything of the sort. It's not a world politics/war simulator, it's a military battle sim. It's about blowing stuff up and killing virtual bad guys.

I can only imagine this comes about from that certain genre of game where you spend most of your time watching cut scenes and participating in a virtual story and very little time actually playing. Games shouldn't try to be books or movies just like books and movies don't try to be games.

Stories can make levels more immersive. You get to know the guys you fight with in real life and have some sort of concept of why you are fighting in the location that you are.

[tj72 0]

The Resistance campaign was a very good story. It felt like a Tom Clancy movie at times, some great cinematic scenes with good camera angles.

At one point (for those who never played it) your resistance group shoots one of their own for being a traitor and this was a very dramatic moment as the characters recognize it as a turning point. Plus the missions in the campaign heavily emphasized the need to use your squad in different ways. It was much harder if you tried to Rambo the missions because you needed help and teamwork most of the time. The ending was fantastic and it was a great expansion, maybe the best I ever played. It would be nice to get a campaign at this standard. I never finished any of the later campaings though.

[jakerod 254]

At one point (for those who never played it) your resistance group shoots one of their own for being a traitor and this was a very dramatic moment as the characters recognize it as a turning point.

I don't recall that ever happening. I remember poor poor Stoyan accidentally being shot but I don't recall there being a traitor. Maybe I am just not thinking of the right cutscene though.

[tj72 0]

I remember it. One of the earlier missions there was a trap because someone tipped off the enemy. Then in the next cutscene the group has an argument and accusations are made and one of the group is shot dead. It reminds me of the scene from Red Dawn (great movie and idea for a campaign btw).

[jakerod 254]

I remember it. One of the earlier missions there was a trap because someone tipped off the enemy. Then in the next cutscene the group has an argument and accusations are made and one of the group is shot dead. It reminds me of the scene from Red Dawn (great movie and idea for a campaign btw).

Yeah, I was actually thinking that you might be confusing it with Red Dawn. The only time I remember something similar happening:

was when you were attacking/defending the outpost in the woods and then helicopters showed up and you had to run. Then the one guy wanted to give up but I think Stoyan tried to stop him or something and the guys gun accidentally went off and killed Stoyan. The only time I remember anything similar happening. RIP Stoyan... and the Tasmanian Devil... I always wanted to know who that was.

[BF2_Trooper 0]

What do you expect? We live in a world where even so-called "Tom Clancy" games are set in a very watered down War on Terror. This does not bother me too much, but it would be nice if we had a military shooter with a story that didnt hold back on anything.

The only recent game I can think of that does not hold back on anything it seems is Mass Effect 2. But then again, that takes place 200 years in a sci-fi universe. Now BIS isnt bad at telling a story, just remember that they're not BioWare. :D But I must say, that they do cover the "real world" better than teh mainstream Tom Clancy games IMO.

[katipo66 94]

Games shouldn't try to be books or movies just like books and movies don't try to be games.

I know i shouldn't compare, but games like mafia and gta were exactly like books, a self driven story that at times like a good book you couldn't put down, Anyway i dont expect that type of story/immersion from BIS... arma is pure shooter that can be played at varying levels , no romance here!

[LJF 0]

Haha well I wasn't suggesting ArmA2 become a gore or political simulation, just that they hint to the bad stuff offstage.

Also, I wasn't comparing ArmA2 to anything like the Tom Clancy games, don't want to put those too close, ArmA2 might catch something :D

[vini_lessa 10]

Sorry to be blunt but..

WHAT DA FUCK IS THE TOPIC AUTHOR TALKING ABOUT ? :confused:

The original ARMA2´s main campaign ( Harvest Red ) has all that - mass graves, ethnic-cleaning/murdering, civil unrest, political assassinations, etc.

The author seems to have played OA´s "campaign" and thought all "series" is like that. (when in fact, OA´s campaign is the only one shallow and sanitized as he says - I dont consider the ARMA1 campaign a campaign at all.).

[ryguy 10]

The original Arma 2 chernarus Harvest Red story was much more immersive for me, and I loved the backstory. It's cool that they make up countries, that makes it more fun and not get bogged down in offending real people etc. I just wish there would be more of that stuff in OA. You don't see things like funny billboards or a story about bigfoot or how the main character is the creator of bardak and sons. It's kind of unfortunate. I like it when it has more character.

[w0w00t 0]

If a game based on war offends someone so be it

war is not nice!!!~

[BF2_Trooper 0]

Haha well I wasn't suggesting ArmA2 become a gore or political simulation, just that they hint to the bad stuff offstage.

Also, I wasn't comparing ArmA2 to anything like the Tom Clancy games, don't want to put those too close, ArmA2 might catch something :D

Like I said, ARMA 2 touches on today's political situation better than Tom Clancy games do. For one thing, I have yet to see a Tom Clancy game that actually takes place in the mid-east.

[LJF 0]

Has anyone here played Combat Mission Shock Force? I thought that did a really good job.

The original OFP campaign was good, I enjoyed that the most out of all of them (it was also the hardest :D). But yeah I don't really know, it's hard to describe what it is, perhaps it's not the content, because I didn't really feel that attached to the ArmA2 campaign either, maybe I just wish they'd set the games in real locations.

I might go back and try the ArmA2 campaign again.