Gun laws in the United States

[Jack 0]

For anyone else thats interested, I've been seriously considering moving to another state due to the communist gun laws in New York; so I decided to not only take into consideration what I want in a house but also the gun legislation in a particular state. The first link I found that was of great help was from (where else) wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_(by_state)

If you look through them all, Vermont seems to be by far the least restrictive. You can, for example, own a pistol and carry it concealed without a permit in VT. Seemed like the perfect state... until I read that you can't own a suppressor in VT :(

Seems like the only state that has Vermont's laws and you can own a suppressor is... Alaska!

So its a tossup between Alaska and Vermont... thoughts? suggestions? Any other states that might work?

[Big Mac 19]

I've been seriously considering moving to another state due to the communist gun laws in New York

That comment only makes you look stupid and gives Americans a bad name. Do you even know what a communist is?

If you look through them all, Vermont seems to be by far the least restrictive. You can, for example, own a pistol and carry it concealed without a permit in VT. Seemed like the perfect state... until I read that you can't own a suppressor in VT

Give me one good reason why you need to carry a CW without a permit. You planning on robbing a bank or killing someone in cold blood?

Seems like the only state that has Vermont's laws and you can own a suppressor is... Alaska!

Why do you need a suppressor hmm? Only special forces operators, criminals and 007 need one of those. So which one are you?

Gun laws are in place for a very good reason and it has nothing to do with the communism. You should be thankful that you live in NY where the gun laws are so strict because when some gangbanger get's caught with one he's libel to go to prison for a very long time and there for won't be on the streets to car jack your mother. I have just 3 guns and they're the only guns I need. Gun #1 Remington 700 bolt-action Gun #2 Colt 1911A1 Gun #3 Now this one is my pride and joy. Mossberg 590 with a 20 inch barrel.

If you want to play with military grade weaponry join the Army or Marines. Until stop bitching about the gun laws in your state.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Big Mac

[SteveJA 12]

Woohw That was a bit of an agressive post! Maybe he just has a passion for weapons or handguns, ethier that or he is one tof the people mentioned above lol

[maddogx 13]

(...) communist gun laws in New York

(...) You can, for example, own a pistol and carry it concealed without a permit in VT. Seemed like the perfect state... until I read that you can't own a suppressor in VT :(

(...)

You seriously want to move to a different state based solely on the legality of carrying a concealed suppressed firearm? Why do I find that hard to believe? :rolleyes:

[sparks50 0]

He says he wants to be able to carry concealed, and own a suppressor legally, he has not said that he wants to carry concealed a suppressed weapon.

Suppressors have multiple uses. They improve range safety by allowing better communication(Try to shout hold fire when 10+ shooters with earplugs are ripping it up downrange),

less noise pollution for neighbors, smaller risk of inflicting permanent hearing damage by accident etc.

Edited July 19, 2010 by sparks50

[echo1 0]

I think laws against cheap weapons, and controls on how the weapons are bought and used make an awful lot more sense than laws against things like large-cap magazines and automatics. It seems to me that the anti-gun lobby in the US promulgates moral panic about "assault weapons" predicated on things like Columbine or the North Hollywood bank robbery, when the real gun crime problem is when two-bit imbeciles get their hands on cheap weapons without any proper regulation, and end up killing someone on the spur of the moment in a crime of opportunity.

The former cannot really be stopped with laws, but the latter can be quite easily - if someone needs an AK-47 or silencer or both for a planned crime, odds are that they can get one whether they are legal or not. The real issue is how you prevent stupid people getting their hands on guns and using them in stupid ways.

But yeah, people carrying concealed pistols is stupid, it just normalizes mass paranoia, and is going to lead to unnecessary violence when someone with a gun gets twitchy and shoots someone, or worse, misses and kills a bystander. I doubt the average "concerned citizen" has the training or cop-on to use guns in such a scenario.

Edited July 19, 2010 by echo1

[-Snafu- 78]

Incoming!

Take cover!

:couch:

Seriously.

I can't see much good coming from this thread at all but I will eat my hat if I'm proved wrong.

If this is a serious question and not just a troll I am sure there are other forums and sites out there that would be of much more use than the BIS forums.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Snafu

[Jack 0]

That comment only makes you look stupid and gives Americans a bad name. Do you even know what a communist is?

Anyone who has gone through an 8th grade history class in 'mericuh knows what a communist is. I was using the term as a form of hyperbole...

Give me one good reason why you need to carry a CW without a permit. You planning on robbing a bank or killing someone in cold blood?

I never said that I intended to carry a concealed weapon, I was merely pointing out that carrying a weapon without a permit is allowed in some states - and those states have less restrictive gun laws than others. But for the sake of argument here is one good reason:

The ability to protect oneself against aggressors, especially at the workplace (very useful for people who repossess cars for example).

Why do you need a suppressor hmm? Only special forces operators, criminals and 007 need one of those. So which one are you?

A silenced firearm is eminently more enjoyable to shoot than one without a suppressor. Shooters are able to concentrate more on breath control and trigger pull when they are not subjected to the fatigue and distraction of a loud, bright, muzzle blast. Beginning shooters are typically not intimidated when introduced to the shooting sports with a silenced firearm, and are able to easily hear instructions given to them by trainers since hearing protection is no longer needed. Silenced firearms are also less likely to disturb any people, livestock, or wildlife that may be in close proximity to where you shoot.

Gun laws are in place for a very good reason and it has nothing to do with the communism.

Criminals will always be able to obtain guns if they want and indeed need them to carry out whatever violent act they intend to commit. Gun legislation that restricts the use of firearms is absurd and does nothing but frustrate law abiding people who shoot for recreational purposes.

And again I was using the term "communist" in jest.

By the way I also have a Mossberg 590 :). I love it to death but I may sell it soon for an Arsenal SGL21 or 31.

[mosh 0]

But yeah, people carrying concealed pistols is stupid, it just normalizes mass paranoia, and is going to lead to unnecessary violence when someone with a gun gets twitchy and shoots someone, or worse, misses and kills a bystander. I doubt the average "concerned citizen" has the training or cop-on to use guns in such a scenario.

You do need a 'brief' training class to get a CCW. It's not the most advanced class, but it is better than nothing. It would be nice too see more training involved (for anything gun related), but that is up to the gun owner... it's not up to you, me, or the government to tell them. My dad made us all take gun safety and training classes when we were kids. It was optional, and should be, but it was fun and informative.

Some of the cities in St. Louis County still allow you to carry a pistol openly (see my profile pic). That is 100% legal for me to walk down the street like that where I shoot (a few miles away though, where I live, I have to conceal the pistol when outside). I prefer open carry over concealed anyways. Some of the local stores and shops around here have even been removing their signs banning concealed weapons too.

If the OP thinks New York is bad, Chicago is worse from what I hear. But please don't say it's communist. It may be unconstitutional to limit your right to bear arms, but it's certainly not communist...

One simple belief I have... Criminals will get guns no matter what laws are passed. I'm really glad they have to wonder if the law abiding citizen they're about to victimize has one or not... I also feel safe knowing me and all my friends and family are protected at all times by the guns we carry.

[Big Mac 19]

A silenced firearm is eminently more enjoyable to shoot than one without a suppressor. Shooters are able to concentrate more on breath control and trigger pull when they are not subjected to the fatigue and distraction of a loud, bright, muzzle blast. Beginning shooters are typically not intimidated when introduced to the shooting sports with a silenced firearm, and are able to easily hear instructions given to them by trainers since hearing protection is no longer needed. Silenced firearms are also less likely to disturb any people, livestock, or wildlife that may be in close proximity to where you shoot.

I've been handling firearms since I was 6 years old and shooting them since I was 8 and I never once was intimidated by the loud *BANG* that a gun makes when you pull the trigger. You're argument for a suppressor is idiotic and without fact.

Criminals will always be able to obtain guns if they want and indeed need them to carry out whatever violent act they intend to commit.

This is true and I did not deny it, but strict gun laws have put many harden criminal behind bars.

Gun legislation that restricts the use of firearms is absurd and does nothing but frustrate law abiding people who shoot for recreational purposes.

As I already said before, if you want to play with military grade weaponry join the military. I have no sympathy for dumb ass rednecks who want to play with AKs and AR-15s and get mad when gun laws either deny them the right to buy em or make them prove why they'd need it, not want it.

The ability to protect oneself against aggressors, especially at the workplace (very useful for people who repossess cars for example).

I used to do repo and we never had a need for gun when repoing someone's car, boat, whatever. The most we ever needed to have to defend ourselves was our bare hands and the fact that it was usually 3 or 4 guys up against one angry dude who missed a payment. Besides that is no reason for CW permit. Most states allow you to have a loaded pistol in the frontseat, glove box, or dash. Some state require it to be a 3 step process and if you practice you get that 3 step process down in 3 seconds. I have my Mossberg 590 and Colt in my truck to protect myself against carjackers and what not and I keep my shotgun in plain view on the rear window and no one messes with me. Edited July 19, 2010 by Big Mac

[TRexian 0]

Indiana is a shall-issue state, and IMHO strikes a decent balance between gun rights and regulation. Texas is likewise good.

[echo1 0]

The ability to protect oneself against aggressors, especially at the workplace (very useful for people who repossess cars for example).

If certain high-risk jobs require people to carry guns, that makes sense. I just don't think anyone who so wishes to have a gun should be allowed to carry one around. Without necessity, you just end up with a lot of paranoid people running around with guns. Not good.

Criminals will always be able to obtain guns if they want and indeed need them to carry out whatever violent act they intend to commit. Gun legislation that restricts the use of firearms is absurd and does nothing but frustrate law abiding people who shoot for recreational purposes.

As I said in my post above, the sale of cheap, low-quality guns, and the lack of restriction makes it easy for random thugs to get their hands on guns. Such people commit the sort of 'spur of the moment' gun crime which I'm sure accounts for a greater percentage of gun crime related deaths than serious criminals carrying out premeditated crimes. The odds are that if you are into recreational shooting, you are going to buy a gun that is at least half way decent, and that it isn't going to inconvenience if the local police have the details of the guns you own, and your purchase is subject to you not having a criminal/psychological record. Cut down on 'saturday night specials' and have a regulated and properly enforced system for regulating the sale of guns, and you really cut into gun crime where you actually can.

I really don't see why things like automatic weapons cannot be legally owned by the public if their sale and use was properly regulated (albeit to a higher level than regular rifles and shotguns)

One simple belief I have... Criminals will get guns no matter what laws are passed. I'm really glad they have to wonder if the law abiding citizen they're about to victimize has one or not... I also feel safe knowing me and all my friends and family are protected at all times by the guns we carry.

A substantial percentage of people who get shot in their homes in the US are shot with their own weapons. I'm pretty sure that there's a similar statistic for US policemen being killed by their own weapon. Very much the double edged sword.

I think the problem is moreso one of those hard to quantify "cultural/societal" issues than simply what sort of guns you're able to buy, and how/how not you can carry them.

Edited July 19, 2010 by echo1

[Jack 0]

I've been handling firearms since I was 6 years old and shooting them since I was 8 and I never once was intimidated by the loud *BANG* that a gun makes when you pull the trigger. You're argument for a suppressor is idiotic and without fact.

I'm disappointed you think that, since I layed out several facts in that post :( Have you ever fired a gun with suppressor on it in your lifetime of shooting experience?

As I already said before, if you want to play with military grade weaponry join the military. I have no sympathy for dumb ass rednecks who want to play with AKs and AR-15s and get mad when gun laws either deny them the right to buy em or make them prove why they'd need it, not want it.

I will agree that for those that can join the military that is a viable option, but unfortunately for me I am disqualified (dependent on prescription medicine) from joining any of the armed forces in the United States. It really sucks, especially when I hear about all the fun my friends are having... some of the time. Most of the time people not in line units/deployed are using the mark 1 broomstick :o.

Its not that either of those types of weapons are denied (AR15/AK47) it's the pointless and frustrating restrictions that are on them in NY and other states that really bothers me; e.g. you can't legally own a weapon with a retractable butt stock, <16" barrel etc..

I used to do repo and we never had a need for gun when repoing someone's car, boat, whatever. The most we ever needed to have to defend ourselves was our bare hands and the fact that it was usually 3 or 4 guys up against one angry dude who missed a payment. Besides that is no reason for CW permit. Most states allow you to have a loaded pistol in the frontseat, glove box, or dash. Some state require it to be a 3 step process and if you practice you get that 3 step process down in 3 seconds. I have my Mossberg 590 and Colt in my truck to protect myself against carjackers and what not and I keep my shotgun in plain view on the rear window and no one messes with me.

Cool, how long did you do repo work? I'm sure you could see how it could quickly become a problem if it was one angry dude with a weapon that was mentally instable and/or intoxicated. Sure you could run away thats always the best option - but what if you're in the middle of attaching the car/truck/boat to your tow truck? Better to be prepared for the worst IMO.

I really don't see why things like automatic weapons cannot be legally owned by the public if their sale and use was properly regulated (albeit to a higher level than regular rifles and shotguns)

Definitely. The only problem is the effect of select fire weapons on one's wallet haha. You can actually own automatic weapons in the United States but the ease of obtaining it and state legislation again makes things different on a state to state basis. In NY it is completely impossible to obtain a select fire weapon unless you're a member of Law Enforcement. Two states over I need only pay a $200 transfer tax and get a signature from a police chief and I have an MG42.

[Big Mac 19]

I will agree that for those that can join the military that is a viable option, but unfortunately for me I am disqualified (dependent on prescription medicine) from joining any of the armed forces in the United States. It really sucks, especially when I hear about all the fun my friends are having... some of the time. Most of the time people not in line units/deployed are using the mark 1 broomstick .

Its not that either of those types of weapons are denied (AR15/AK47) it's the pointless and frustrating restrictions that are on them in NY and other states that really bothers me; e.g. you can't legally own a weapon with a retractable butt stock, <16" barrel etc.

You should go to this place then, http://www.gunsnh.com/ http://www.facebook.com/pages/Manchester-NH/Manchester-Firing-Line-Range-LLC/156446433057?v=wall#!/pages/Manchester-NH/Manchester-Firing-Line-Range-LLC/156446433057?v=wall&__a=5&ajaxpipe=1 You can shoot pretty much any assault rifle you want, but only on their range. There's no need for you to own one. Why do you want to own a weapon with a retractable butt? You plan on carrying a AKMS in a trench coat?

Cool, how long did you do repo work? I'm sure you could see how it could quickly become a problem if it was one angry dude with a weapon that was mentally instable and/or intoxicated. Sure you could run away thats always the best option - but what if you're in the middle of attaching the car/truck/boat to your tow truck? Better to be prepared for the worst IMO.

2 and half years while I was in college. That's pretty much when you dial 911 and try to talk to the guy and calm them down. I've done it before.

I'm disappointed you think that, since I layed out several facts in that post Have you ever fired a gun with suppressor on it in your lifetime of shooting experience?

Unless count trying out the Steven Segal taping empty 2 liter bottle to the end of my 45 no I haven't. Edited July 19, 2010 by Big Mac

[maturin 12]

Why do you need a suppressor hmm? Only special forces operators, criminals and 007 need one of those. So which one are you?

They're useful if you suck at hunting. Makes the deer run towards you when you miss.

If guns are legal but regulated, suppressors should be the same way. While exercising their somewhat ill-advised constitutional right, people should have access to them to protect their hearing. Suppressors lower the decibels of your average rifle so it is only barely above dangerous noise levels.

You pretty clearly can't ban guns when you already have a gun culture and a proliferation of firearms. Gestapo tactics to enforce a mountain of red tape is fine by me. I am sympathetic to people's often hysterical desire to defend themselves in a (somewhat) dangerous world, but the person who is most in danger from a gun is the owner and his friends and family. Statistically, anyway. Cue 'responsible gun ownership,' 'I am responsible firepower incarnate' blah blah blah.

Edited July 19, 2010 by maturin

[GRS 10]

You can own a suppressor in many states. I live in Ohio and you can own them here.

Gun laws in the US are BS and the second amendment hardly exists anymore, but its better than most places at least.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Seen from a European point of view, this arguing seems hardly believable.

In my humble opinion, the only valid point is : how many people are dying because the firearms are easy to obtain ?

Death rate by firearm per 100,000 population in one year :

France (homicide) : 0.44 (year : 1994)

USA (homicide) : 7.07 (year : 1998)

Those figures must be considered with caution, (look here), but i prefer to live in a (probably communist :D) country with restrictive laws.

[TRexian 0]

hehe

It is a matter of public policy. In the US - such a death rate is "acceptable loss" from a policy perspective.

:)

[maturin 12]

Seen from a European point of view, this arguing seems hardly believable.

In my humble opinion, the only valid point is : how many people are dying because the firearms are easy to obtain ?

Death rate by firearm per 100,000 population in one year :

France (homicide) : 0.44 (year : 1994)

USA (homicide) : 7.07 (year : 1998)

Those figures must be considered with caution, (look here), but i prefer to live in a (probably communist :D) country with restrictive laws.

Firearms were easy to obtain in the U.S. back in the days were France was an absolutist monarchy with a rigid class structure where laws restricting weapons could be enforced.

[red oct 2]

to answer the posters question, here is a description of Ohio's gun laws

you may carry a concealed weapon but must have a permit. you must attend a training course to aquire a permit (its not free either). if you choose to carry a wepaon w/out a permit, than you must not conceal it. (you have to wear it where it can be openly seen). that doesn't mean however local police won't stop to question why you are wearing a weapon on your leg, hip or shoulder to see if you have any legitimate reason to have one in the open. weapons must be kept in the trunk of the car when tranporting them and ammo must be kept separated from the fire arm unless you have a conceal carry permit than you may keep the weapon up front with you. as for the suppressor, you may need to a special license to own something like that. since i don't know of anybody w/ a surppressor, i would guess that the state doesn't give such a license out to just anybody. you need to be 18 years old to be allowed to buy and own a rifle/shotgun you must be 21 years old to purchase a handgun. theres also some rules about customizing weapons, i over heard a store clerk talking about how this customer brought in a weapon for repairs, but had some after market parts on them. the customer apparently had some kind of paticular set up on this weapon that made it a illegal weapon, he was allowed to have each part individually on the weapon, but couldn't have them on the weapon together. that sums up what i know about OH's gun law

Edited July 19, 2010 by Red Oct

[mcarma 19]

I used to live in Alaska. Believe me when it's -60 degress out you won't want to do hunting or target shooting.

[echo1 0]

Seen from a European point of view, this arguing seems hardly believable.

The bit I have trouble with is the 2nd amendment. Armed militias to overthrow the government? Sounds like the Somali constitution.

I used to live in Alaska. Believe me when it's -60 degress out you won't want to do hunting or target shooting.

I hear shooting bears out of helicopters is all the rage though.

[GRS 10]

I'm still waiting for the day that people realize that a gun is just a tool and that tools cannot cause crime; idiots do. Go harder on the idiots, not the tools they use and that good people use to stop them.

[maturin 12]

The bit I have trouble with is the 2nd amendment. Armed militias to overthrow the government? Sounds like the Somali constitution.

What are you talking about? Limited uprisings led by principled citizens in defense of their governing documents happen all the time. Nobody worries about insurgencies anymore.

I'm still waiting for the day that people realize that a gun is just a tool and that tools cannot cause crime; idiots do. Go harder on the idiots, not the tools they use and that good people use to stop them.

Why don't we hand out do-it-yourself household nuclear fission kits and just crack down on the bunglers as they mushroom?

You can't ban idiots.

Edited July 19, 2010 by maturin

[sparks50 0]

The bit I have trouble with is the 2nd amendment. Armed militias to overthrow the government? Sounds like the Somali constitution.

The 2nd amendment does not mention an armed overthrow of the government.

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Edited July 19, 2010 by sparks50